Sozo caps on Vintage Modern

[scat7s]

I agree with bashing, because it seems more like a spam injection from Sozo than anything else.

huh?

 

[topcat 70]

Frank??? Quite frankly I could've sworn your name was Joey.

In all honesty I may have been a bit harsh myself, however like AT I too have been getting fed up with the bandwagonner/cork sniffer threads. I find it interesting that out of all the people who dwell on component types/vintages/whatever, I have yet to find one with some decent playing skills. Why is it that we never hear of big name artists (with the exception of Eric Johnson) dabbling in the whole cork sniffer realm of things? Because they can play! They don't need a certain component type to get their tone...their tone is in their hands.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again and many times over...ain't no component type gonna make up for substandard playing technique. You'll find that if you spend more time practicing and honing your technique than you do worrying about what component types are in your amp you just might get somewhere.

Best thing to do is take your amp as is and have a pro play through it. If they're able to get the tone you're after just by simply dialing in the amp and playing then you know it cannot be the fault of the amp.

Agreed.Thats why i got a Les Paul and Marshall 800 in 88.If i sounded shit after that then i knew it was me and not my gear!

 

[Ken]

Why is it that we never hear of big name artists (with the exception of Eric Johnson) dabbling in the whole cork sniffer realm of things? Because they can play! They don't need a certain component type to get their tone...their tone is in their hands.

.

While I do agree the tone is mostly player dependent, I disagree that our heroes aren't as guilty of cork sniffing as some of us are. The guys I like (mostly metal) all have their amps heavily modded these days, with the singular exception of Jack White who delights in playing pawn shop junk.

Ken

 

[Jonathan Wilder]

While I do agree the tone is mostly player dependent, I disagree that our heroes aren't as guilty of cork sniffing as some of us are. The guys I like (mostly metal) all have their amps heavily modded these days, with the singular exception of Jack White who delights in playing pawn shop junk.

Ken

Modding doesn't necessarily mean "cork sniffing".

When you get your amp modded with either different than stock component VALUES and/or circuit design changes...this is not "cork sniffing". Of course the circuit design/topology along with component values will drastically change an amp's tone and feel. This is why amps from different manufacturers all sound different.

However, simply having the components switched out for a different component TYPE but keeping the values stock (i.e. switching carbon film resistors for carbon comp, ceramic disc for silver mica, etc etc)...THIS kind of modding constitutes as cork sniffing.

Most of the big name musicians have circuit changes along with component value changes done and this hardly qualifies as being guilty of cork sniffing.

 

[Ken]

Modding doesn't necessarily mean "cork sniffing".

.

It's all a matter of degree isn't it! Some mods are so subtle that it's all in the player's mind that the tone is "improved"; we agree that's the cork sniffing. But when does a tone change become large enough to go from "cork sniffing" to a "quantum tonal enhancement"? When the guy in the back row hears the difference, or when the player hears the difference? It's a gray area to me.

Ken

 

[scat7s]

i dont think theres anything wrong with cork sniffing to be honest w/you guys.

we're all at different levels of playing and 'teching', and to a guy (like me) who has a little bit of experience modding and whatnot, but am certainly not an expert by any stretch, its a learning experience.

some people will take other peoples word, and thats good enough. some people NEED to find out for themselves. and i say: find out for yourself.

real results, imaginary results, it doesnt matter. for me personally, ive done things that at first i was like 'yeah man thats IT!' , only to turn around a wk or two down the road and think, "nope, that wasnt it." you learn to recognize for yourself whats real and whats not. you learn from it and you move on to the next...

i also agree that it can be a distraction from having to actually play and work to be better. im guilty of it at times and i know a few guys who collect gear like crazy and cant play a fucking lick. thats their choice.

i do thank you thunderpussy and jon, for driving that point again and again. its starting to take hold in my thinking patterns lately. who knows? maybe my playing will improve a little bit this new year...

 

[rjohns1]

Not to be too frank, but you guys are kinda acting like assholes

+100000. Guys, why is it that you have to act as moderators? Do you guys make the rules for the tone of a post by a new member? Is there a FAQ page where we can get those guidelines? He likes his amp with the new caps. Who cares if it makes a difference. He likes it, that is all that matters. This slamming was totally uncalled for. Way to turn off a new member to the forum. Blasting him like that was just wrong. You could have been civil, and told him what you wanted say better as well guys. Posting the cork sniffer mag? Really low.

 

[Jonathan Wilder]

It's all a matter of degree isn't it! Some mods are so subtle that it's all in the player's mind that the tone is "improved"; we agree that's the cork sniffing. But when does a tone change become large enough to go from "cork sniffing" to a "quantum tonal enhancement"? When the guy in the back row hears the difference, or when the player hears the difference? It's a gray area to me.

Ken

When the majority of people regardless of whether they play or not can tell that the mods made a night/day difference. In order for any mods to even count and be heard in an on stage live environment you'd have to mod it in a way that makes a night/day difference that anyone would be able to hear.

Think about it...if you can't tell a difference in a live stage environment then what purpose did the mods really serve?

Perception is NOT always reality. Things are not always what they seem. Moreover, most players allow the cost of mods to determine whether or not they really hear a difference. I mean...if you spent $400-$500 in mods that didn't really make a difference and someone pointed that out to you, of course you'd argue that it really did make a difference whether you could really hear the difference or not!

 

[demonufo]

But can't we just get rid of all the surrounding components and have just the valves hooked up so that we can get pure valve tone?

Sounds like a quote from Dan Torres's book.

 

[demonufo]

I agree with bashing, because it seems more like a spam injection from Sozo than anything else.

Highly doubtful. That's really not John Gaynor's style. And if he were to spam like this to promote his products, I really doubt that he'd use the Vintage Modern as an example.

 

[40watter]

Reading too much into a simple post, so many of you took my post a place I never thought it would go. I searched to see if there was an ongoing discussion about modding a VM, didn't find it and decided to post something I thought could help for other VM owners.

To think I'm hearing things that I've created in my head is retarded. Hearing the amp before and after is a simple test, one that produced obvious results for my amp. Before I bought the amp I had a clear idea of what I was going for. I wanted a semi JTM45 sound without having to shell out major $$$ for a vintage or boutique amp that would only buy me a head. Now I've got a solid amp with my favorite speakers, that sounds nothing like a stock VM. All of it done for much less than the going rate of $2000 for many of the other amps I had my eye on.

 

[TwinACStacks]

I in fact, am an asshole. Sometimes I will answer to Frank, but generally I go by TWIN.

TWIN

 

[Ayrton]

For the record, "mojo" and "voodoo" is a subconcious defense mechanism for -

"I don't have the technical knowledge required to explain it"

"I cannot prove it"

"I cannot scientifically quantify it"

Which makes it all subjective and a matter of personal opinion.

Truth...

 

[Jonathan Wilder]

I in fact, am an asshole. Sometimes I will answer to Frank, but generally I go by TWIN.

TWIN

I guess that's better than answering to "Frankie". jk

To think I'm hearing things that I've created in my head is retarded. Hearing the amp before and after is a simple test, one that produced obvious results for my amp. Before I bought the amp I had a clear idea of what I was going for. I wanted a semi JTM45 sound without having to shell out major $$$ for a vintage or boutique amp that would only buy me a head. Now I've got a solid amp with my favorite speakers, that sounds nothing like a stock VM. All of it done for much less than the going rate of $2000 for many of the other amps I had my eye on.

Our point was not to state that you're "hearing things". Our point was to state that it's highly doubtful that it was a matter of swapping the stock caps with different cap types of identical values alone. More than likely some caps were switched out for different values in conjunction with installing the Sozo caps.

 

[Kunnz]

Agreed.Thats why i got a Les Paul and Marshall 800 in 88.If i sounded shit after that then i knew it was me and not my gear!

Are you crazy man, Les Pauls SUCK!

 

[40watter]

The only other things changed, were the pre-amp tubes (which, like many of you, swap in some vintage candy, in my case JAN phillips were put in before the mod) and a Mica cap replaced the stock cap. When my amp tech, opened it up, he found some cracked resistors and changed those out for me.

I know that many people on this forum have a vast knowledge of Marshall amps and amps in general, but I think you're giving modern Marshall amps a bit too much credit. I understand that Sozo has become a loaded word for many, but after reading the list of reputable people who personally use them in building quality boutique amps, I had to see if they would help my tone. Gaynor looked at the schematics and told me what to swap, he steered me to bliss.

 

[jcmjmp]

I know that many people on this forum have a vast knowledge of Marshall amps and amps in general, but I think you're giving modern Marshall amps a bit too much credit. I understand that Sozo has become a loaded word for many, but after reading the list of reputable people who personally use them in building quality boutique amps, I had to see if they would help my tone. Gaynor looked at the schematics and told me what to swap, he steered me to bliss.

And that's all that matters. Its just too bad you don't have any a/b clips

 

[RiverRatt]

Frankly, all this makes about as much sense to me as bashing the guy in the neighborhood who's always washing, detailing and modding his car. "If he'd spend more time driving his car and becoming a better driver, he wouldn't need to mod his car." Bullshit. We mod our computers, we mod our cars, we mod practically anything that can be modded. The whole history of Marshall amps is basically one 50-year mod project. Why all the grief just because someone had a positive experience and wanted to share it?

 

[Alabama Thunderpussy]

Frankly, all this makes about as much sense to me as bashing the guy in the neighborhood who's always washing, detailing and modding his car. "If he'd spend more time driving his car and becoming a better driver, he wouldn't need to mod his car." Bullshit. We mod our computers, we mod our cars, we mod practically anything that can be modded. The whole history of Marshall amps is basically one 50-year mod project. Why all the grief just because someone had a positive experience and wanted to share it?

I see what you're saying. Your point of view encompasses many different types of players, from the bedroom rockstar to the session musician.

My views and opinions tend to be colored by the fact that I am a session player and occasional live hired gun, so In many instances a "Shut up and play" attitude prevails. It's my fault that I tend to apply that in my philosophy toward every guitar player's goals and intentions, when obviously not everyone is looking to play music for a living.

As far as my final word on the Sozo caps, I would love to A/B two identical models with identical values of Sozo's vs Mallory 150's. I'm confident there wouldn't be a perceivable difference. My whole point is why would you spend $2.50 per cap for a result that can be achieved for 56 cents per cap? The answer to that? bandwagonning.

"Many reputable boutique builders use these caps"..

Yeah, because an amp built with Sozos can sell for more because they threw $100 worth of caps in it, and it'll sell quick because the internet is loaded with reviews like the original post here where people are going

OMFGZ!!! Sozos are teh bomb!!

These amp makers see this and say "Well hell, I would like to pay my mortgage this month so I better sell an amp. I could put Sozos in it and it'll sell like a hooker on clearance!

Unfortunately bare practicality rarely sells.

I welcome any tests to change my mind, but you can pay for the caps.

That being said, 40Watter if you're happy with your amp, rock on. Don't let us stop you or make you doubt it.

 

[TwinACStacks]

I guess that's better than answering to "Frankie". jk

TWIN