TSL 602 Upgrade options - speakers?

[nobbydog]

Been lurking for a while - TSL602 owner. Usual issue, searching for 'that' tone, always convinced that the stock 602 needs some help. I've read the Wolverines are always worth an upgrade but then I get lost in the options. Can someone, who maybe has done it, give me the spec of the speakers I need and I'll go away quietly. Thanks for listening to an old question asked again. By the way searching 602 didn't produce any results for some reason.

 

[temporarychicken]

I have the TSL602 - I decided that the Wolverines were poor due to weak treble response and lifeless.

I took them out and put in some Seventy Eighty speakers I had. It sounded not really any better - turns out these speakers are not suited to open back cabs.

Just recently I put the wolverines back in. I then realised that if you turn the master volume up to 8 and use the channel volumes to get the actual volume right, the amp comes alive and the muddiness disappears too

The master volume control is like a tone control on these amps.

On the big brother, the TSL100 there is no master volume - just channel volumes. This is actually a better arrangement.

Now I love the amp with the original wolverines in and wouldn't change them. Turns out they are not this amps problem although there is much stuff on the internet claiming just so.

 

[royslead]

I HAD a TSL 602; I changed the two speakers to Eminence Man O Wars. They're highly efficient, and thus seem a bit louder, have a punchy attack, and worked well for me (not to mention, the price was right on them as well). They are similar in sound to GT-75's from what I'm told. I cannot help but think other Celestion flavors would do well too, such as the "Creamback" 65's, or maybe even GH-30's. The only other thing I did was retubing with a set of JJ high gain tubes (pre and power tubes) and rebiased, of course.

 

[EADGBE]

I haven't done it but Celestion Vintage 30s may fit the bill. Just get the same ohmage and wire them up the same as the Wolverines.

 

[Nudge68]

Yep the Wolves are crap. I swapped them out and used G12T-75s after testing with V30s. I put the Wolves back when I sold it. Regretted doing that.

 

[nobbydog]

Thanks all - think I'll give the V30's a whirl.

 

[nobbydog]

OK, just gonna back-pedal. I think I'll get the amp serviced and possibly re-tubed, and go from there. So slight change to the original question, if I get it re-tubed what should I be fitting. BTW I tried the master vol on 8 and channel volumes controlling things and still muddy. So service it is, just like to know which tubes? thanks for replies so far.

 

[dreyn77]

dude, they custom made the speakers for the amp. they're GOOD.
no problems there.
game over!

just put in valves that seem good, so that might be indications like slightly heavy when you hold the valve. don't worry too much about it. they're just like light bulbs. game over! they just transmit a voltage to the other section. NO BIG DEAL!

 

[Stoobz]

I'm going to try the master @ 8 trick when my wife goes shopping but I've read where two different Celestions make this truck come alive.

 

[royslead]

Again, I retubed with a high gain JJ set. Very good. Speakers made a big difference. The ONLY reason I sold the amp? Shared eq among three channels. The cover band I play in demands a fair amount of versatilitity. The TSL for me, could not cover it all. I had a good clean, a good crunch, and a louder good crunch. I needed something that would give a better lead patch. I found it in a different amp...if I didn't need that, I would still have the TSL.

 

[soundboy57]

Love my TSL100 head, had it since 1998.

Looking for upgrades??

Remove or snip the bright caps on the crunch and lead gain pots, unless you like them cranked above 7 or 8, then it doesn't matter much.
Put an NOS tube in V1. (and V2 if you can afford to)
I use Sylvania from the 60's, because all the Mullards go in my plexis and JMP's But, seriously, they sound great in a TSL/DSL.

Put a Mercury output tranny in it (bolt in, one hour job)
Put a choke in it (a little more involved, but worth it)

What do you get?

Way less fizz, more dynamics, definition, sparkle, tone and punch, more like the old days (pre 1990, IMHO)

Oh yeah, and dump those crap Wolverines for some creambacks or a vintage 30 and a G12H of some sort...

My two cents. YMMV. Have fun

 

[temporarychicken]

OK, just gonna back-pedal. I think I'll get the amp serviced and possibly re-tubed, and go from there. So slight change to the original question, if I get it re-tubed what should I be fitting. BTW I tried the master vol on 8 and channel volumes controlling things and still muddy. So service it is, just like to know which tubes? thanks for replies so far.

This muddiness is normal. Mine has it.

Drive the front with a pedal that clips bass. Either a Boss SD-1 or para eq pedal with the 100hz slider down until the mud disappears.

Trust me this amp will then sound fantastic. A 25 dollar eq pedal would be a far wider investment than an expensive pair of vintage 30s at this juncture.

I went through all the same stages as you and ended up putting the wolverines back in once I realised that they were never the problem.

 

[nobbydog]

Thanks very much for your replies all - very helpful and informative. I went with the service and valve replacement today with a local tech and he suggested, and I agreed to, TAD tubes throughout. Might be a placebo effect but I think things have improved even though there's obviously some running in to be done. Interesting comments re the eq, might try that before going head first into V30's. Thanks again for your help, I'll let you know how the eq stage goes............

 

[EADGBE]

For what it's worth I love my TSL602's Wolverine speakers. Right now I have JJ ECC83-S preamp and JJ EL34 power tubes in it. This is the best it has ever sounded.

 

[temporarychicken]

I made a thread to try and demonstrate the positive tones of the Wolverine Speaker:

http://www.marshallforum.com/cabine...ll-wolverine-speakers-not-crap-after-all.html

It contains a sound sample of a 100 percent original TSL602 - original even down to the original factory valves and Celestion Speakers still fitted.

 

[SG~GUY]

what tone are you aiming at? that will make a big difference in your speaker choice,,,

I have been putting JJ83S pre's in V1 for decades

and yes get a fairly good 8 or 6 band MXR EQ,...(it not only shapes your tone but is an excellent clean boost)-

 

[nobbydog]

Nice clip - how did you set the DS-1? I've a Bad Monkey which I presume could do the same job?

 

[temporarychicken]

I just set it like the above - to give a slightly more compressed, dirtier, stronger signal.

A bad monkey is a highly rated pedal so should be worth ago.

What makes the SD-1 good for the TSL602's lead channel in particular is the bass-cut that is inherent in the pedal design. This counteracts the dark and sometimes flubby, and muddy character of the lead channel. This inherent bass-cut occurs regardless of any of the dial settings on the pedal - it's down to a filter in the pre-distortion part of the circuit.

Also, the tone knob on the SD-1 does not affect or adjust this bass cut at all, it only affects higher frequency roll on/off so experimentation is necessary depending on how bright your pickups are.

Also an EQ pedal, as suggested above works like magic too. If you start with every slider in the middle, then lower the 100 Hz slider gradually (usually the one on the far left) whilst letting the bottom E ring out under heavy gain, suddenly you will get to a point where the sound tightens up and the mud and flub disappears. Then don't lower any further or you will start to thin the tone.

Once you've got the pre-distortion bass cut just right, by whatever pedal (or even internal amp mod if you are brave) then you can dial the low end bass back in post-distortion using the deep switch. This boosts the 100Hz range but only after the gain stages in the amp, so it won't 'loosen' the bass sound, just fill it up.

You are never going to get ultra-deep low bass tones from a TSL602 since it's an open backed combo, andno speaker swap will ever change this fact! But it can be a very pleasing amp - one of the most under-rated Marshalls of recent times.

 

[MesaMan50]

For me, the Wolves are out and never coming back. I have tried almost every speaker I own in the 602 Combo:
Greenie & G12H-30 Anniv. (Power handling concern here)
V-30 & Greenie (Good sound, but a tad bright)
currently V-30 and Cream 65 (Best so far).

Also like the Tung-Sol EL34B with bias properly set, helps tone at any volume.

For me the Bass does get loose with volume cranked, so interested in trying the SD-1 through this rig.

Great TSL Tips here.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

I think if you have to add an EQ, though very economical, that shows a lack of tone somewhere. If putting in Eminince or V30s etc solves the problem, that points to the Wolverine speakers. Sure, it can be improved upon but there's obviously something lacking with those drivers. It would be interesting to A/B the Wolves with something else, even with EQ and boosts, etc.