Which Marshall delivers the most Distortion??

[NewReligion]

Hands down, a 1987-1989 JCM 800 2210/2205 100watt/50watt. will eat them alive. Follow the link below and listen to "Through the Ashes". I recorded the solo's with a stock October 1989 JCM 800 2210 100 watt with no pedal. It screams and will destroy all of the Marshalls I have ever owned. As far as Mesa. I have owned 3 Recto's all from 1991. Nothing sounds like a Marshall except a Marshall. The rhythm is a 50 watt 1987xl pushed by a Boss SD-1. It has the classic George lynch Plexi Mid tone. 2210/2205's rule. They have the clipping diode and have no equal at performance volume levels, just ask some of the worlds greatest guitarist such as John Norum, Michael Schenker etc. Good luck. David

David C. Hopkins on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

 

[big dooley]

Hands down, a 1987-1989 JCM 800 2210/2205 100watt/50watt. will eat them alive.

in terms of volume maybe, altough i don't think it can compete with a 1959 or a 200 watt major... can it?

but in terms of distortion the 2210 with the gain dimed, comes as close as the JVM on OD1 in green mode or the DSL on lead 2...
i remember comparing my bandmates 2210 with my JVM (a partnership made in heaven by the way!)

but it keeps detail with the gain maxed out, where the DSL becomes mud with high gain settings on lead 2, like JCMJMP described

the JVM on orange and red modes in both OD1 and OD2 take it way further, but still keeping detail... i usually keep the gain below 12 o'clock and, still i have more gain then the amps described above...
i never heard a 900-SLX, though... but according to what viking says, i think it has the same problem as the DSL when you dime the gain

 

[big dooley]

I assume you're getting on ok with it??

Look what replaced it when you bought it............

And because I know you like them...........


K

yeah, the thing is going strong and i love it

you still have that monster over there? (the amp)

and how is the other monster doing? (the dog)... it looks like the amp wasn't loud enough, because his ears are not flapped out to the front

cheers, mate...

 

[neal48]

You can teach a monkey how to use a JVM in about 20 minutes. You keep on finding tones and more tones. I also have a JCM 900, that I love too, but that JVM, is the best amp that I ever seen, or used.

It kicks absolute, unadulterated ass, fo sure

 

[HOT TUBES 70]

I figured after two dozen posts i better lay the smack down for us 6100 owners !!!

The 6100/6100LM have some serious distortion on the 3rd channel as well !! can hang with all of the above amps mentioned !!

 

[Landshark]

Also it's probably going to be the easiest to find a JVM. I would definitely go with that before a DSL.

This is cool clip of the JVM I found a few days ago. Too bad he is tuned down to X.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol0mpjoGnxQ&feature=related

I got nothing out of that vid... couldn't hear tone... just noisy distortion. Not saying it's your fault or anything but it may have been the drop tuning.

GOBS OF TONE WILL DESTROY GOBS OF DISTORTION ANY DAY!!!

Just my humble two cents.

 

[Purgasound]

I got nothing out of that vid... couldn't hear tone... just noisy distortion. Not saying it's your fault or anything but it may have been the drop tuning.

Just my humble two cents.

definitely not my fault, lol, wasn't my video and wasn't me playing. just the only metal demo of the amp i found.

 

[Landshark]

definitely not my fault, lol, wasn't my video and wasn't me playing. just the only metal demo of the amp i found.

Oh I know I meant no offense to you. Just couldn't hear a distinction in notes. I know you'd never play in drop x.

 

[willwallner]

I think it depends on what volume you have the amp, if you want 'Great Distortion' then its not so much the amount of gain on tap,

For example the modern marshalls will give you loads of distortion at low volumes but as soon as you turn up the master to concert volume you end up with uncontrollable feedback and the distortion sounds really bad. Anyone in the audience will feel like they have an ice pick in their ear and it wont sound good at all (EQ won't help it). With an older marshall you can have the master up really loud and it still sounds pleasant to the ears. Even with the brightness of 1959 or 1987 if you don't stand right in front of the cab it will sound really nice when turned up. I think New religion was right when he said 2205 2210 cos that amp will give you tons of gain and still sound good when loud, personally I would go with a 2204 with TS. Its not too much hassle to use one pedal and I think the result is high gain that when turned up loud maintains good tone thats nice to listen too. And that is what i consider 'Great Distortion'

 

[kebek]

i realy prefer the jcm 800 2210 to a vintage modern...
i found this link...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT6KbPPqrt4[/ame]

 

[Ken]

I think it depends on what volume you have the amp, if you want 'Great Distortion' then its not so much the amount of gain on tap,

For example the modern marshalls will give you loads of distortion at low volumes but as soon as you turn up the master to concert volume you end up with uncontrollable feedback and the distortion sounds really bad. Anyone in the audience will feel like they have an ice pick in their ear and it wont sound good at all (EQ won't help it). With an older marshall you can have the master up really loud and it still sounds pleasant to the ears. Even with the brightness of 1959 or 1987 if you don't stand right in front of the cab it will sound really nice when turned up.

As I turn my DSL up, I find I back off the gain to get the best tone. New Marshalls have so much gain that you actually have too much distortion as you get louder. Back in the day, like you point out, you just put everything on 10. They had primative tone controls and things didn't turn to mud like new Marshalls do dimed. This is the trade off for being able to play a new Marshall at bedroom volume and still have a great sound.

Ken

 

[willwallner]

Exactly thats why I said it depends what volume, I think the older marshalls were built for performing musicians and the newer marshals cater more to hobbyists who need to have the amp at low volumes, I'll never use my JCM 800 at home, I just use a marshall practice amp. I think that you can have an amp thats good at low volumes and high volumes (DSL, JVM etc) or you can have an amp that greats at high volumes and bad at low volumes (JMP, JCM 800 etc)

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

I've been toggeling back and forth on which kind of amp to purchase.
In terms of distortion alone, which Marshall delivers the "most" gain and therefore the heaviest/tightest, and reliable (non-sag) distortions?

Without any mods, pedals, or Eq's

The kind of maxed out distortion I am thiking of (and desiring) is a tone that is on par with a Mesa Boogie Rectifier type distortion.

Now I know that the Rectifiers produced a different tone with alot of lows on the distortion and all that, and that Marshall have a different flavour, but is there a Marshall that can produce that type of heaviness, tightess, high gain distortion in its own way that is equal to or better than the Rectifiers?
If the answer is no, then what MArshal just offers the most Gain for great distortion.

I hope this makes sense,...or mabye its apples and oranges...
Large

Sup. Lots going on here. First, I doubt that you are going to get any given Marshall to sound "dead on" to any given Mesa Boogie, and vice versa. You may get a "ball park" approximation, but never anything exact. If you like the Mesa Boogie sound, then get your self a Boogie.

As far as high gain Marshall amps, I'd say that the JVM410H has the most gain on tap. After that, I'd go with a JCM800 Kerry King signature 100 watt head. The TSL and DSL are also high gain beasts that are great. The 6100 LM is also a fantastic amp capable of high gain.

But seems that the tone of the gain in most Marshall amps seems to change at the beginning of the JCM 2000 series. The gain of a stock JCM 800, or even the JCM 900 is quite different from the 2000 series on forward ( I think that is one reason why Wilder asked what kind of music you play). And the change in tone of gain maybe the reason why a lot of guys come on here asking about ways to "boost" 800s, 900s, plexis, etc.

One more thing: as soon as you decide to get a high gain amp, you will no doubt have to contend with noise; this is a fact of life for all high gain amps. You will have to find a way to control it. I think that is the reason why some people bitch that some high gain amps have "unusable" gain. These people don't know how to dial in the right gain and they don't know how to gat the damn thing properly. *You will need at least 2 noise gates: one gate between the guitar and amp input, and a second gate between the preamp and the power amp. Some people like to throw a third amp in the effects loop, but that depends on what effects you are using and how they are being powered (battery or adapter). The best way to gate between the preamp and power amp is to have a "power amp insert/serial loop" such as what is located on the back of the JVM heads and combos. Without this construction on your amp, you will have a hard time killing noise. Additional tips: install quality pickups in your guitar and learn to use your guitar's volume control and muting techniques to control noise and feedback. So, if you are going to go the route of high gain, you should have an understanding of what you need to do to get the most out of your amp. Hope this helps.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Exactly thats why I said it depends what volume, I think the older marshalls were built for performing musicians and the newer marshals cater more to hobbyists who need to have the amp at low volumes, I'll never use my JCM 800 at home, I just use a marshall practice amp. I think that you can have an amp thats good at low volumes and high volumes (DSL, JVM etc) or you can have an amp that greats at high volumes and bad at low volumes (JMP, JCM 800 etc)

Sup. I don't agree with the "hobbyist" theory, but that's just an opinion, so I'll let it go at that.

I do think that you have to make a decision when you are going to use a lot of gain. You have to choose between having a lot of volume or having a lot of gain-you can't have it both ways. If you read Mesa Boogie's handbook for the Road King, you'll see that even Boogie's designers agree. You will get crap tone and all kinds of awful noise if you try to have it both ways. You got to experiment with both until you find a balance (aka, the "sweet spot").

 

[NewReligion]

I think it depends on what volume you have the amp, if you want 'Great Distortion' then its not so much the amount of gain on tap,

For example the modern marshalls will give you loads of distortion at low volumes but as soon as you turn up the master to concert volume you end up with uncontrollable feedback and the distortion sounds really bad. Anyone in the audience will feel like they have an ice pick in their ear and it wont sound good at all (EQ won't help it). With an older marshall you can have the master up really loud and it still sounds pleasant to the ears. Even with the brightness of 1959 or 1987 if you don't stand right in front of the cab it will sound really nice when turned up. I think New religion was right when he said 2205 2210 cos that amp will give you tons of gain and still sound good when loud, personally I would go with a 2204 with TS. Its not too much hassle to use one pedal and I think the result is high gain that when turned up loud maintains good tone thats nice to listen too. And that is what i consider 'Great Distortion'

I use the same amps at home that I use on stage. At those volumes all of the Plexi's and 800's hold their integrity. In fact I think that the early JCM 900 4100's hold up, I just don't prefer it. The 2210's and 2205's just do not need a pedal when cranked.

 

[big dooley]

ok we've got two camps here... old vs new, pre-amp vs power-amp gain etc etc

well i look it at this way...

yes, the newer amps become mud with very high gain settings at very high volume
no wonder, as the preamps of them deliver way more overdrive then the old beasts

the DSL becomes muddy at lead 2 with gain above 12 o'clock and volume at high setting, depending on the guitar, strings etc. etc. of course
the exact same happens with the JVM... high volume, gain above 'noon in OD1 or 2 and it doesn't even matter in what mode you are... it becomes mud

does this mean the newer amps suck? hell no!!!
at lower volumes, you can have all the gain on tap when you want it
at high volumes i keep the JVM's gain at around 10 o'clock on OD1 orange and OD2 red... mud? absolutely not! gain? more then any marshall i've heard! good tone? why yes of course, thank you very much!

i don't say the newer amps are better, i'm saying they need to be handled differently... if you've always played old amps and you apply the same settings on a new model, it simply won't work

noise gates? yes it was a neccesity for me... but a simple boss NS2 did the trick... i wired it, so the preamp of the jVM is in the NS2's loop... it's called the "4-cable X-method" it exactly how you are supposed to hook up an ISP G-string decimator... the thing is dead quiet when i want it to

one more thing...

 

[Large_Filter_Cap]

Exactly thats why I said it depends what volume, I think the older marshalls were built for performing musicians and the newer marshals cater more to hobbyists who need to have the amp at low volumes, I'll never use my JCM 800 at home, I just use a marshall practice amp. I think that you can have an amp thats good at low volumes and high volumes (DSL, JVM etc) or you can have an amp that greats at high volumes and bad at low volumes (JMP, JCM 800 etc)

nice way to put this!

 

[big dooley]

maybe, but a crapload of proffesionals are playing on the newer amps...
mostly because they are more convenient to work with...
i know... a wall of maxed out plexi's or 2203's will give tonal heaven, but the mixing guy, won't like this at all....

 

[Large_Filter_Cap]

Sup. I don't agree with the "hobbyist" theory, but that's just an opinion, so I'll let it go at that.

I do think that you have to make a decision when you are going to use a lot of gain. You have to choose between having a lot of volume or having a lot of gain-you can't have it both ways. If you read Mesa Boogie's handbook for the Road King, you'll see that even Boogie's designers agree. You will get crap tone and all kinds of awful noise if you try to have it both ways. You got to experiment with both until you find a balance (aka, the "sweet spot").

These are all super useful tips, and thanks.

For the record my guitar music prefs are from stones, to Zepplin, to Slash, to Metallica, to experimental rock/metal sounds.

My situation in more definition,(without the 6-pack) is that I am installing new Seymour Duncans Alnico 2 Pro pickups in my LesPaul. These have a great warm dark tone, and seems to me more "mature", and vintage than the stock ceramics (although these too are cool in their own right, but sometimes they are too fierce and piercing at high registers).
With the AP2 pups, I will have a reduction in output, and therefore I will need to rely more on a high gain amps at all volumes to give me the demand of distortions I need.
I also demand more versatility than a JCM 800 with all do respect.

Here is my take on the great classics. Of course they are hot, produce great distortion (mabye a tad less than I prefer), and have great tones that we are familiar with, but they are just plain OLD. Old in technology, old in sound, over used, but always classic. They are harder to find, and when you do, one must shell out large amounts of money for and old head. Part of my reasoning is not to completely replicate the classic 80's rock sounds necessarily, but to have a nice, well rounded amp that has more than enough gain to give me the distortion requirements I need, but also cleans, dirties, and all tones in between, staying original.
That is why I was also flirting with Boogies, like a Mark V, Dual-Rec and even the mighty Road-King. They will provide plenty of distortion on tap, versatility and obviously different tones.
However I would like to stay in the Marshall realm of things to reduce costs somewhat, easier to dial in, and I still do love the Marshall sound overall.
To keep this discussion within limits, I wanted to address the distortion levels alone, and work from there.
I have the opportunity to buy a new amp with some money ready to blow. It will be a long-term amp, a keeper, something to grow old with.

My interpretation is that the JVM420 will provide the distortion levels that I need for rock, hard rock, and metal. I will probably need the noise gates too.

Am I sound, or is this whacked? thoughts? Should I scrap it all, and get a Soldano instead? lol

 

[NewReligion]

Sorry guys, I did not intend for this to become a debate. I was attempting to help the guy out with his question. The 800's I use in addition the the re-issue plexi's have effects loops. That has been a requirement for me since 1985. In that effects loop I run one of several original Alesis Quadraverbs for quality effects but even more importantly to adjust the over all output volume. I Sh!t canned the 1960 cabs and Celestions and use cabs and speakers that are not trebly, fuzzy and thin. I get huge thick tone at low or high volumes so not to require a 5 watt toy amp at home. My stacks sound awesome at any level its just that when they start pushing air the sonics do not fall apart. Of course this is my opinion and I may have no Idea of what I am talking about. I actually sing along without a mic and practice in my studio and achieve great tone. With the JCM 800's the louder they are the more they seem to clean up in head room, to me that is the mark of a seriously good amp. Good luck. By the way I love playing the JVM's at the Guitar Centers and still may buy one. Perhaps I do need to revisit that thought and approach setting them up differently. It just seemed that no matter what I did they lost their constitution when opened up to stage volumes. IDK? There is not a bad Marshall in the lot.

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