1963 SG (Les Paul) Standard Refinished with Repo PAFs??

[Pave Dog]

I was offered this 63 Les Paul, it has been refinished, a neck reset, several of the parts are reproduction parts. The pickups are odd as I have not seen reproductions that put the PAF stickers on them? I believe the bridge and tuners are reproductions, although he claims the Klusons are real, along with the plastics, and the last fret is missing. The pots date to 61. According to the person that owns it he has had it for 15 years and the refinish was done before he owned it. Not sure how to value this one as the refinish is not great either.

Any thoughts on what is worth, or if it is worth buying?

 

[V-man]

It is certainly worth something and obviously the unoriginal hardware and finish drops the value from the early ‘60s LP/SG. I don’t know what the market is but I’d consider it no more valuable than any ‘70s Norlin SG given its history.

Also, the big vibrola is a real liability in terms of practical playing. These were one of the decisive “features” that ruled any true ‘67 V purchase/investment off my radar. ABR, Nashville or Wraptail… the rest are more of a hassle.

 

[Pave Dog]

It is certainly worth something and obviously the unoriginal hardware and finish drops the value from the early ‘60s LP/SG. I don’t know what the market is but I’d consider it no more valuable than any ‘70s Norlin SG given its history.

Also, the big vibrola is a real liability in terms of practical playing. These were one of the decisive “features” that ruled any true ‘67 V purchase/investment off my radar. ABR, Nashville or Wraptail… the rest are more of a hassle.

Thanks, I agree I am not a fan of the vibrola either. He is asking 3k for the guitar.

 

[nevermind]

Is the old wood and the SN from the 60's worth $2-2,200? Otherwise "to me", it's an $800 guitar...

 

[Scumback Speakers]

There is no binding on the neck. These guitars came with binding if they were Specials, Standards or Customs. Only the Juniors came with no bindings on the neck. Something is off on this guitar.

 

[Pave Dog]

Thank you, I totally missed that. BTW, love your speakers, especially appreciate you working with me on Risson restoration of a low watt amp and creating the best speaker for that 1X12, it sounds amazing.

And I agree, there is a lot off about this guitar.

 

[Pave Dog]

Is the old wood and the SN from the 60's worth $2-2,200? Otherwise "to me", it's an $800 guitar...

That is a fair critique

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

It needs "refinished" again.

 

[TheCharlieBucketProject]

If the owner will let you borrow it for a couple of hours, take it up to Falls Church and see Matt at Action Music. He’d be able to help you with appraising its condition. He knows his way around vintage guitars. I picked this guitar up from him this summer:
‘65 Jr….

 

[Up The Steen]

Thank you, I totally missed that. BTW, love your speakers, especially appreciate you working with me on Risson restoration of a low watt amp and creating the best speaker for that 1X12, it sounds amazing.

And I agree, there is a lot off about this guitar.

Re-necked perhaps?

 

[Pave Dog]

If the owner will let you borrow it for a couple of hours, take it up to Falls Church and see Matt at Action Music. He’d be able to help you with appraising its condition. He knows his way around vintage guitars. I picked this guitar up from him this summer:
‘65 Jr….
View attachment 157845

Thanks, I know Matt, not sure he would let me do that it is a few hours from me.

 

[ElvisNixon]

I can’t remember the date the long tenon came to SG’s. The short tenon ones were very fragile at the neck to body joint. With that in mind, it looks like the neck wasn’t reset, it was to repair a neck that broke off. It would also explain the missing last fret since it’s right at the neck/body joint.

Some of the plastics were definitely replaced. I wouldn’t personally pay much for it if at all. Just my.02

 

[RLW59]

One good thing about the refinish is they didn't mess up the contours and bevels by oversanding. Which might mean they used a chemical stripper, which might mean they melted the binding.

Used Faded SG's, Tribute SG's, all used "budget" Gibsons are now $800 guitars. Clean '63 SG's are starting to push the $20K range.

Buy some oil paints and turn it into a Fool replica and you could easily sell it for more than $3000.

 

[RLW59]

@Pave Dog can you get more pics of the edges and end of the fretboard where the binding should be?

Also, lots of repro pickups have PAF decals. Including Gibson's '57 Classics and Burst Buckers.

 

[Pave Dog]

@Pave Dog can you get more pics of the edges and end of the fretboard where the binding should be?

Also, lots of repro pickups have PAF decals. Including Gibson's '57 Classics and Burst Buckers.

Based on the inputs here and my own research comparing to a friends 64 SG Jr. This is a 63 Jr that was converted(not well) to a Standard. Also I found on reddit where he has offered to other people too.

The guitar is not a Standard. It is a SG Jr. that was converted to a Standard at some point. I have to assume the seller knows this and is trying to pass on a mistake he made or is willfully trying to take advantage of someone after doing a crappy conversion.

 

[RLW59]

In the first set of pics it was hard to tell how funky the inlay material is.

Is the crown on the headstock an actual shell inlay or just paint? Also hard to tell in the original pics.

 

[Pave Dog]

I have not seen it in person (he is a few hours from me) but looking at the pic the crown doesn't appear to be an inlay, was a part of the list of things I sent back to him and he never responded.

 

[BakedBeans]

I was offered this 63 Les Paul, it has been refinished, a neck reset, several of the parts are reproduction parts. The pickups are odd as I have not seen reproductions that put the PAF stickers on them? I believe the bridge and tuners are reproductions, although he claims the Klusons are real, along with the plastics, and the last fret is missing. The pots date to 61. According to the person that owns it he has had it for 15 years and the refinish was done before he owned it. Not sure how to value this one as the refinish is not great either.

Any thoughts on what is worth, or if it is worth buying?

View attachment 157803View attachment 157804View attachment 157806View attachment 157807View attachment 157808View attachment 157810View attachment 157811View attachment 157813View attachment 157814View attachment 157815

Those SG necks often broke at the body joint. I don't believe it's possible to do a neck "reset" on that guitar. That looks like a broken neck repair to me. Should have been painted to hide the ugly repair job.

 

[SoloDallas]

I have owned (and sold) countless Gibson project guitars.
I disagree strongly about the vibrola being a weak element - it’s not. Certainly, it ain’t no Floyd Rose, but it’s not the vibrola to be the issue - especially if you remove the arm or place the arm in a resting place. The Guitar is never going to go out of tune because of the Vibrola - but because of a nut not properly slotted and maintained.
That is the real issue with most guitars of any kind.

As for the price – value of this guitar, I think $3000 for 1963 wood is perfectly acceptable, especially in today’s economy.
I would definitely refinish it and I would add the binding back on the neck – that neck definitely looks weird without the binding and that is a valid question as to what happened to that neck.

The sound of 1960s wood is unique and always worth the effort and the cost. Older instruments of that era are still the magic ones although I use instruments from any era, ESPECIALLY SGs.

I would kindly add that if you’re not interested in this project Guitar, I would be and I’d love to be in touch with the seller myself if you decline this offer.

Fil “SoloDallas”

 

[Fil]

I don't think this was a conversion as they would have had to replace the dot inlays with the traps. A lot of work and the inlays look perfectly routed and correct to the era (mother of pearl). The neck looks like a repair, not a reset. Reset would indicate a different angle and I don't see that. What I do see is some wood filler right where you would look down if you were playing it. And what did they use as wood filler? Dog shit? Looks awful.
I agree with RLW59. It looks like they used a chemical stripper as there is evidence of it in the pickup cavities and the missing binding.
I hate to rain on your parade, but I would pass on this. There's too much that is unknown and would probably end up being a whole lot of work to make it right.

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