Celestion speakers vs the pretenders

[Ufoscorpion]

No getting away from the fact that celestion speakers are the bench mark speakers . I don't think anyone of sound mind can disagree with this statement . Let's face if all clones no matter how good or bad are ultimately compared to Celestion . I look at it like if you want the 'Marshall ' sound , tone , however you want to put it you can only truly achieve with a Marshall amp . Sure people go to great lengths to produce a better Marshall than Marshall , but it won't be a Marshall . Only a Celestion is a Celestion there is no substitute why bother with anything else ?

 

[mtm105]

The production you mention was produced prior to man landing on the moon. Today's cell phones have more GBs than the ENTIRE US Space Mission.

Subsequentially, GREAT strides in tone have EXCEEDED the expecatations of mankind.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

Absolutely , man did land on the moon many moons ago ( no pun intended ) and technology Is a wonderful thing . But I ask you , does anyone do Sabbath and Purple better than Sabbath and Purple even with modern technology ? No , because they ain't Sabbath or Purple ! Do you get where I'm coming from ?

 

[johnfv]

I have Celestions, WGS, JBL, EV and more... all that sound fantastic. I'm good with ANY speaker that sounds good

 

[Micky]

No one has mentioned Eminence yet, so I will.
And yes, most Eminence speakers sound better to me than Celestions.

They look better too, and are made in the USA.

I like 'em.

 

[johnfv]

I did say "and more"

Yup, I have eminence also

 

[mickeydg5]

There is no getting away from the fact that there are lots of great speaker manufacturers out there and no one manufacturer has a benchmark.

"I don't think anyone of sound mind can disagree with this statement."

You either like it or you do not.

For some reason however there are clones for a lot of different vintage speakers, but not just Celestion.

 

[Micky]

So what are you saying? I don't have a sound mind?

 

[mickeydg5]

Are you speaking to me or him?

 

[dreyn77]

the trouble is the people selling product in general aren't telling people what's happening.

so it's us who endup with 100 speakers and then get angry we've got no money left and we still aren't any closer to whatever it was that we were thinking about sound.
so then we're likely to stop buying completely.

So if the retail people don't know anything, then the selling eventually stops.

these companies will startup new products and some will sell and others will pass away and be forgotten. the sellers will still think it's okay to just not say anything to the buyer and they'll have an endless list of products to keep moving.

the end users will just settle for a product and miss the 95% of products which are much better for them, but they'll never know they are or even exist out there.

there's massive problems with your whole area of topic you're discussing.
most people have only room for 1 item at home.
your question is for the 0.002 % of amp users out there.
It's taken me 15 years to get back into putting micro switches into guitars again.
I'm years away from looking at speakers again. (maybe in 10 years I might hear some at a yearly guitar show)

 

[Deep Purple fan]

Absolutely , man did land on the moon many moons ago ( no pun intended ) and technology Is a wonderful thing . But I ask you , does anyone do Sabbath and Purple better than Sabbath and Purple even with modern technology ? No , because they ain't Sabbath or Purple ! Do you get where I'm coming from ?

I agree with you on Sabbath and Purple! But I'm real disappointed in new Celestions. I've sworn off ever buying new again after not being happy with several new V30s and Greenbacks.

 

[Adrian R]

I've sworn off ever buying new again after not being happy with several new V30s and Greenbacks.

Dude, my V30s were purchased new like two years or so ago. I think their fantastic speakers man...They only took 12 hours or so of good hard play time to get em' sounding smooth and VERY expressive...I love the fidelity and crunch man...

 

[Ken]

There's lots of good speakers out there from other companies, and there's some dog Celestions too. Older speakers tend to sound better because they're broken in, but they do wear out eventually. I hope my 1982 cabs still have a lot of life in them! They're only 35 years old!

Ken

 

[Ghostman]

Celestions are the "Benchmark" because they are commonplace. Most guitarists can recognize the sound so they have something to reference to it. That and since manufacturers mostly use Celestions, another reason why other speakers are referenced to them.

Better? no.
Different? yes.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

As Ghostman correctly states , Celestion speakers are used as a reference point as they are basically the ' industry standard ' . I don't have issue with other manufacturers , it's good and heathy to have options . I just think that if you want a speaker that sounds like a vintage 30 for instance , get a vintage 30 . I also think that new ' made overseas ' Celestions will be as good as the made in England ones , why wouldn't they be when you think about it . if you buy new speakers ( which I don't as a rule ) you've got to give them time . BUY USED !

 

[maltone]

For Dreyn77..

Re: Celestion speakers vs the pretenders
the trouble is the people selling product in general aren't telling people what's happening.

so it's us who endup with 100 speakers and then get angry we've got no money left and we still aren't any closer to whatever it was that we were thinking about sound. so then we're likely to stop buying completely.

So if the retail people don't know anything, then the selling eventually stops.

these companies will startup new products and some will sell and others will pass away and be forgotten. the sellers will still think it's okay to just not say anything to the buyer and they'll have an endless list of products to keep moving.

the end users will just settle for a product and miss the 95% of products which are much better for them, but they'll never know they are or even exist out there.

You just nailed the feeling I have right now. I am so F'ING PISSED at a lot of these companies. Even "well done" speaker demos don't compare to something like Johnfv's demo:
http://johnviehweg.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/SpeakerTest.mp3
I'm only posting the link here because I think it's a fantastic, more real life "actual" comparison. In order across the timeline, the speakers were:
1: G12-T75
2: WGS Invader
3: WGS ET 65

Why is it so difficult for companies to do this??? If one man can do it, surely a company with more resources who are in the actual speaker business can do it? Celestion's own demos on the site are terrible.
Case in point: http://celestion.com/product/26/heritage_series_g1265/ listen to the Tone Samples, crunch 1 & crunch 2. - That turned me off the 12-65.

What's even worse, is when someone on you tube posts a video of a "speaker shootout" and they demo the speakers with a 12 watt amp, or only do cleans, or worse still, go from clean - to death metal, — no gradual change from clean, to roots rock, to classic rock etc...

If they want to sell more speakers, put in the F*CKING work. I hate marketing BS behind all this stuff, and every company does it, they just want to move units, and for something as personal and subjective as sound perception, that won't cut it for me.

Thank god for John's simple & straight up mp3, I thought G12-75's were NOT the way to go, reading reviews from people, forums etc. And despite that, now that I've heard this clip, it's my favourite speaker of the 3, it's cutting, brighter, I DO NOT hear scooped mids at all, — I don't know what people are talking about when they say that. A bit bright? — Yes, but you can dial that down.

EDIT: Sorry, I had to add this clip in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du5sn1wtZWA This is one of the best clips I've heard yet. On the timeline:
start at 4:25 — 4:55. He starts with the G12H-75, then switches to the G12M-65 Creamback. I LOVE that 75, it's has more cut, more open than the 65. When he switches to the 65, it seems like someone threw a blanket over the speaker, like it got squashed or something, or turned the presence knob from half down to 3.

I'd rather have too much of something with the ability to tame it, rather than not having enough of it to begin with. Thanks again John.

 

[ckr1231]

Scumbacks
...or piss on you

 

[johnfv]

Re: For Dreyn77..

...Thanks again John.

Maltone, I'm glad you found my comparison useful but that said, remember the tone you want for a recording can be different than what you enjoy in the room. Typically I dial in a brighter more present tone for recording because even with digital recording the presence seems to get lost in translation. The 75s were pretty harsh in the room and after years of struggling to tame the high end I ultimately decided they were my least favorite and replaced them. Still, listening back to my recording it does sound pretty good and cuts through nicely. It also makes me want to review the sensitivity specs since our ears tend to hear louder as "better". I tried to ensure no variables in my test but hell, you are installing a new speaker in the cab. It's hard to ensure everything is *exactly* the same. Also, I was playing live each time, a better technique is to use the same loop every time to eliminate that variable. One more important thing in my comparison: the 75s were "vintage" '80s models, VERY well broken in. The WGS speakers were brand new, straight out of the box.

One of the best comparisons I have seen is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI

 

[MartyStrat54]

Eminence sells more speakers than anyone else. They have more of a selection than anyone else. I don't think Celestion is ruling the roost.

 

[maltone]

CKR1231:

Scumbacks
...or piss on you

Was that meant for me, or just a general comment? I ask because I just tried a pair of M75-PVC's and sent them back. It cost me some change to order them here in shipping + sending them back to Jim. Having said that, they were exquisitely clear, crisp, open, and very vintage.

My only issue, was that mid character was a bit too soft for me, even, a bit too polite, but then again, I'm coming from V30's. And, they weren't full broken in.

But, what do I know? I'm a hack, and I'm not a speaker guy, I've only ever used these V30's.

John, now that makes me second guess the 75's again — Recording them vs what sound is in the room, hmmm.