Dear God, My Marshall Tone Sucks [help - Audio Enclosed]

[solarburn]

Sounds like a 800 on volume 2 to me. The 800 sounds your thinking of on records are turned up and multi tracked. If your looking for more gain you’ll prob need to get a harder clipping pedal than an overdrive. No shame in that if it helps get you the sound your looking for.

I don’t think the tone you have now sucks but I can see wanting more

If a Marshall sounded like this id never buy another. This amp is not proper sick yet. However it can be.

 

[Deep Purple fan]

Its not the pedal. I don’t know about the amp. What guitar are you using.?The 4104 with greenbacks and a decent drive up fron should nail 80s rock tones. With a good guitar with humbuckers you should have no problem. After listening to your clip, I do hear an 800 tone in there. Have you tried the gain on the pedal at noon or 1 o’clock?

 

[maxxi]

that amp sounds just fine to my ears(like stated above, jcm 800 tone is very noticeable). sounds more like you're not really hitting your guitar strings hard, resulting in a more clean sound (if that makes sense). you can always change preamp tubes just to be sure, but i don't think it will be a night and day difference.

 

[solarburn]

that amp sounds just fine to my ears(like stated above, jcm 800 tone is very noticeable). sounds more like you're not really hitting your guitar strings hard, resulting in a more clean sound (if that makes sense). you can always change preamp tubes just to be sure, but i don't think it will be a night and day difference.

Oh hell no. If mine sounded like that I'd take a shot gun to it. That's a limp dick Marshall.

 

[maxxi]

Oh hell no. If mine sounded like that I'd take a shot gun to it. That's a limp dick Marshall.

we'll see once it gets a decent service

 

[solarburn]

we'll see once it gets a decent service

Yes it needs a check up. Something is hampering its power.

 

[79 2203]

I couldn't really tell much from that clip except that it's recorded terribly. One thing I did notice is that early on there seems to be a fair bit of gain, but you say that it seems really clean. If you are used to modern amps, a 4104 can seem really clean and old school, but that's the amount of gain many classic rock hits were recorded with.

 

[solarburn]

I couldn't really tell much from that clip except that it's recorded terribly. One thing I did notice is that early on there seems to be a fair bit of gain, but you say that it seems really clean. If you are used to modern amps, a 4104 can seem really clean and old school, but that's the amount of gain many classic rock hits were recorded with.

I'm hearing too much mud. The bite is not there.

 

[Gunner64]

Crank up the master and hit them strings with attitude! Sounds like a 800 that needs more coming from the front end to me. All the way from your fingers to the input jack. Power supply or battery for the pedal? A weak battery will cause issues. Guitar volume up? That 800, like all 800s, while it has the 80s growl is a very unforgiving amp. Every nuance of your playing good or bad is right in your face.

 

[chiliphil1]

that amp sounds just fine to my ears(like stated above, jcm 800 tone is very noticeable). sounds more like you're not really hitting your guitar strings hard, resulting in a more clean sound (if that makes sense). you can always change preamp tubes just to be sure, but i don't think it will be a night and day difference.

I couldn't really tell much from that clip except that it's recorded terribly. One thing I did notice is that early on there seems to be a fair bit of gain, but you say that it seems really clean. If you are used to modern amps, a 4104 can seem really clean and old school, but that's the amount of gain many classic rock hits were recorded with.

These guys are on point. What amps have you played before? If you’re coming from something high gain or solid state the 800 will be a culture shock. They do metal just fine but a good boost is key along with YOU. If you’re playing like a grandma it’s going to sound like it, use a thicker pick and really dig in. The harder you hit the strings the more aggressive the sound the amp will make. Volume is also a key component, the louder it is the more distortion you’ll get and the harder it’ll hit the speakers which is an extremely important aspect of the 800 sound.

As far as pedals, try an OCD those are very mean sounding. Also, since you already have an SD-1 look into some mods, you can make those pedals very aggressive with a couple of small tweaks. When I had my 800 I had the SD-1 waza craft which had normal mode that did more of the 80’s hair tone and then it had modded mode which got into black album Metallica with no problems. That modded mode will probably get you where you want to be.

Edit: thanks for the mention on the tone settings!

I think the amp sounds good. Seems like an 800 to me. I’ll tell you what your issue is, it’s a combo with greenbacks. If you want to play AC/DC and zep it’ll get you there. If you want Metallica, it’s not going to do it. You NEED a closed back cabinet with 65’s, 75’s, or v30’s. You will never get a tight bottom end from and open back combo, never. Plus the greenbacks don’t do the metal tone very well, they don’t stay tight and they color the sound a bunch.

I don’t know your financial state but, you need to either add a 2x12 or 4x12 closed back cabinet or return that combo and buy a half stack. I promise, the amp will do everything you want but that’s just not the right version if you want to play heavy stuff. If you go the head route I would also recommend going with the 2203 and getting the full 100 Watts. Personally I’d go reissue for the reliability and the loop but, whatever floats your boat is the best option.

Sorry you’re having trouble bro, hopefully it’ll get worked out pretty easily.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Phil might be onto something, if youre not committed to this amp and can return it do so and get a different amp that can do metal out of the box like any of the DSLs, Jube, JVM, get a 2x12 cab and head thats what I use and very satisfied. I just saw EVH put out a new amp the 5150III EL34 that seems like a nifty metal amp or even the Peavey 6505+. If you dont need a full sized amp all these companies make mini heads and cabs that are really good including Marshall.

I see youre a Phil X fan (your picture) if its in the budget get a Friedman Phil X series amp.

 

[ampmadscientist]

LOL! Sorry, just in a patch about the whole ordeal. I'm sure you could fix it, too! I hope to be able to remedy the situation with your guys' help.

If you were to choose, would you go the pedal or preamp tube route?

Don't be ridiculous.
Marshall sound does not depend on pedals.

The amp should sound pretty killer all by itself. Check this FIRST and correct it.

Get your preamp tubes freshened up FIRST. Then, make sure the bias is correct.

You have to do that...before you make any judgement.

Don't base your conclusion on weak / old tubes....and don't base your conclusions on effects pedals.

PART 2

Effects pedals will not work correctly into the HIGH input. This will overload the preamp.
Plug any distortion pedal into the LOW input. (the CLEAN input)

Effects Pedals : you add these AFTER the amp is working correctly....NOT BEFORE.

Stop centering all your efforts around effects pedals. Concentrate on the AMP FIRST.

READ THIS:
When this amp works correctly, it will sound better than ANY distortion pedal.
You will learn this.
You can cross over into the world of Marshall sound....if you just leave the distortion pedals OUT of the picture.

PART 3
If your sound depends on effects pedals: Marshall is probably the wrong amp.

Get an amp that sounds good by itself ---or you have the wrong amp.

 

[4Horseman]

Don't be ridiculous.
Marshall sound does not depend on pedals.

The amp should sound pretty killer all by itself. Check this FIRST and correct it.

Get your preamp tubes freshened up FIRST. Then, make sure the bias is correct.

You have to do that...before you make any judgement.

Don't base your conclusion on weak / old tubes....and don't base your conclusions on effects pedals.

PART 2

Effects pedals will not work correctly into the HIGH input. This will overload the preamp.
Plug any distortion pedal into the LOW input. (the CLEAN input)

Effects Pedals : you add these AFTER the amp is working correctly....NOT BEFORE.

Stop centering all your efforts around effects pedals. Concentrate on the AMP FIRST.

READ THIS:
When this amp works correctly, it will sound better than ANY distortion pedal.
You will learn this.
You can cross over into the world of Marshall sound....if you just leave the distortion pedals OUT of the picture.

Agreed. It's like buying an old car and putting a performance intake/exhaust on it without checking the spark plugs or compression.

 

[el_bastardo]

Jesuschrist....this poor guy is already lost and yall have gotta be making it worse.

 

[royslead]

I thought there were previous discussions regarding these amps and their perceived lack of gain. If I remember right, there were often early eighties models that just did not have "it." Models made after 1984 were supposedly really good, I don't know, I'm trying to recall the thread - it seems to me, there may not be anything wrong, just that this amp could just be one of those.

 

[Gunner64]

Crank it. Clean boost the front end. Tone and presence for taste. Done. Thats it. All you need to know. Its loud. Thats how they are played...loud.

 

[Coronado]

Lots of good points here. I think often what people define as "metal", or the amount of gain varies person to person. I agree with the above comments - may want to pop in a couple new JJs (or tube of choice) to make sure you have that section covered (side note: not a bad idea to have a few extra tubes laying around anyway, so you may kill 2 birds here - making sure its not a tube problem, and having a few extra tubes just in case).

I also agree that the JCM800 (at least my JCM 800 2203) can seem a bit "mellow", or not really hitting that crazy 800 gain/tone until I really open it up and get the tubes working. At lower volumes, it has more of a bluesy type of tone. As I push the volume, it goes from blues to rock, to pretty dang heavy. Do you achieve the tone you are looking for any better as the volume goes up?

Once you have the tubes variable squared away, and we have figured out if volume is a factor, I think the guys may be onto something with the speaker. I have a few different speakers cabs that I run through (Greenback, Heritage, G12t75, and vintage 30s. While I LOVE the warm tone of the Greenbacks, when I'm looking for that 800 bite, its the Gt75s or the V30s. I push the presence (not so much the treble) up a bit, and it helps bring a bit more edge into my tone. Not saying you cant achieve good metal tone with say a Greenback, but as Phil mentioned, you may get a bit closer with the 75 or V30 (and you can find a ton of these on the used market for a decent price).

Pick attack: Hit that bad boy with some anger!! The 800 is perhaps one of, if not THE most sensitive and responsive amps I have. Once I dial in my tone, I like to add either the SD-1 or the TS9 for a little extra bite (all volume on the pedal, no added gain). For me, it helps to sharpen things up and really makes the amp responsive (seems to help the amp really come alive, especially at somewhat lower volumes where I don't have the luxury of pushing 100 watts into a 4x12).

 

[Jr Deluxe]

One thing. This aint the 80s. Looking back at the conditions at the time, what youre hearing on records is highly polished and produced. Amps on 10. I dont think scorpions used a boss overdrive. They played big venues and played loud. Its a stretch to think you are going to sound the same with a marshall on 2 and an sd1. I admit some great players maybe even in this thread can take your rig and play some impressive 80s music. Its the player overcoming the equipment not the equipment. A jcm800 is
entirely the wrong amp if you cant turn up past 2. It was designed by marshall to play loud for touring live bands. Im not trying to beat up the op. Lots of other people fight this issue. Some use friedmans, some use modellers. Some use other stuff. I personally use the same amp you got. Sometimes on 2. 2 is not quiet on the 4104. I dont play 80s though. But i did. In the 80s. Loud.

 

[ampmadscientist]

I thought there were previous discussions regarding these amps and their perceived lack of gain. If I remember right, there were often early eighties models that just did not have "it." Models made after 1984 were supposedly really good, I don't know, I'm trying to recall the thread - it seems to me, there may not be anything wrong, just that this amp could just be one of those.

It's the difference between the 4 input and the 2 input.
The 2 input has 2X as much preamp gain....that's the difference.

 

[ampmadscientist]

Jesuschrist....this poor guy is already lost and yall have gotta be making it worse.

He is found now.
All is well.