Does capacitor brand really make any difference?

[C-Man]

I just happen to like the look of the older capacitors (Mustards, RS Paper, Hunts, TCC), and having had both builds with new and older capacitors, new Marshall amps, and experience with old ones, I am not certain I can tell a discernable difference based on capacitors alone. To me, transformers and speaker selection have a larger impact on the overall sound. However, most electronic engineers I know have told me so long as the capacitor is in the right value, brand shouldn't matter.

 

[PelliX]

Tests? Other than what my ears tell me, no. I know, many don’t believe there’s a noticeable difference with filter cap brands but with 2 amps that had newer F&Ts, the same grainy/choppy decay to the note/chord was present in both…after changing to ARS it was gone. We all hear things differently.

Yes! But when we measure things, we have to agree to calibrate out instruments in order to agree. Human hearing is horrible by measurement standards. It self-biases and shifts all the time with no way to measure those deviations.

 

[Spooky88]

I have used cheap polycaps and ceramics, expensive NOS ceramic- poly-, Mica-, PIO- and Teflon-capacitors in signal chain and can't say if they have any effect. Possibly Ceramic and Mica have sound "sterile" and PIO have sound "mellower" but amp circuits have been different and that has had much more effect.

For my builds electrolytes I often use Panasonic and Nichicon 105C 10 000h or more radials which I mount legs up to a hole which I drill to circuit board. Its because in my work I saw how much longer good electrolytes did function.

I don't believe "outer layer" method!

I recently repaired a “New” Mackie ProFx30V3 mixer that blew all 4 caps at the main LR XLR outputs. I replaced them with Panasonic caps with higher heat and ripple effect specs. That board sounds a ton better.

 

[PelliX]

I recently repaired a “New” Mackie ProFx30V3 mixer that blew all 4 caps at the main LR XLR outputs. I replaced them with Panasonic caps with higher heat and ripple effect specs. That board sounds a ton better.

The real question here is do the Panasonic caps sound better than the stock caps *in normal condition*, i.e. not shortly before failure. Not sure what Mackie are using in their gear recently.

 

[rmlevasseur]

This might be a video you'll want not to politely ignore. It's also relevant to note that in guitar tone circuits the signal passing through the cap is going to ground, i.e., it's no longer in the signal chain.

your going to suck me in, arent you. First, I have no idea what's actually in his little mystery box, but let's just say it's not a sham. He demonstrates every sound without touching the tone or volume pots. How you gonna compare such a thing if the pots are wide open? The differences I perceive usually come at different sweet spots on the dial. Just because all the caps sound the same in one position doesnt mean they sound the same in all positions.

Also, listen to the clip at 2:35. Pretty sure I hear differences there. I dont really like the tone for the demo so admittedly it's hard to tell.

In the end, I will readily admit that the differences are negligible. But the sum of a lot of little things does drastically affect tone. I dont need to listen to any more youtube clips because I did the testing myself. It's very simple to do, so why take someone else's word on it?

 

[PelliX]

your going to suck me in, arent you. First, I have no idea what's actually in his little mystery box, but let's just say it's not a sham. He demonstrates every sound without touching the tone or volume pots. How you gonna compare such a thing if the pots are wide open? The differences I perceive usually come at different sweet spots on the dial. Just because all the caps sound the same in one position doesnt mean they sound the same in all positions.

Well, 3 caps of one kind and 1 of another - we presume. I understand that he didn't actually show it, else it would defeat the test, but I see where your doubt is coming from. My main gripe is live playing; you clearly hear him play a riff a little different each time. As we don't know where his tone knob is either exactly, it could be considered a bit of an invalid test.

I dont need to listen to any more youtube clips because I did the testing myself. It's very simple to do, so why take someone else's word on it?

No offense, but because you're biased; if you know which is which your mind might well play tricks on you. Only in a blind test can you determine that.

 

[rmlevasseur]

Well, 3 caps of one kind and 1 of another - we presume. I understand that he didn't actually show it, else it would defeat the test, but I see where your doubt is coming from. My main gripe is live playing; you clearly hear him play a riff a little different each time. As we don't know where his tone knob is either exactly, it could be considered a bit of an invalid test.



No offense, but because you're biased; if you know which is which your mind might well play tricks on you. Only in a blind test can you determine that.

Sure, but in my tests I did not like the most expensive pio best, and I had no knowledge or preference before the test. To be fair, I still dont know which ones I liked "best" I just know I could hear differences.

 

[Trouserpress]

I can only speak for caps in the guitar. I did major testing and I heard differences between brands. I politely ignore those who say otherwise.

Same here. I found styroflex caps to deliver the sweetest tones in guitar circuits.

 

[nortiks]

Well, 3 caps of one kind and 1 of another - we presume. I understand that he didn't actually show it, else it would defeat the test, but I see where your doubt is coming from. My main gripe is live playing; you clearly hear him play a riff a little different each time. As we don't know where his tone knob is either exactly, it could be considered a bit of an invalid test.



No offense, but because you're biased; if you know which is which your mind might well play tricks on you. Only in a blind test can you determine that.

Problem is there is no real way to do an apples to apples A/B since it requires actual playing since any differences in tone caps would affect the response of the pickup itself. Whether its significant is another matter though. I do know the guys over at a pedal building site always model the pickup too in their pedal circuits due to the limited output of an unbuffered pickup. Case in point is a Dallas Rangemaster circuit. Model it in LTSpice without a pickup model and just use a sine source, and its a 3KHz high pass, just like it looks like in the schematic at first glance. Model it with a series resistor and its a different high pass. But model it with the appropriate LRC network for a pickup and its a 1KHz upward bell (not symetrical). And when you play an unbuffered vs buffered Rangemaster they sound completely different, as expected from the LTSpice modelling.

All to say the tone cap thing IMO is real because it is an unbuffered connection to the pickup with a series resistance on top of that given the tone and vol pots are rolled back some. I've not gone down the rabbit hole of comparing caps myself, but to me based on how extreme the differences in modelling a Rangemaster buffered vs unbuffered are, and hearing the same exact extreme differences from hardware, its reasonable to me that different tone caps would make a subtle difference for those living with tone, vol rolled back, for similar technical reasons. But I suspect the real difference is getting excited about it and actually playing a little better! (not like I haven't bought entire new guitars for exactly this reason, lol)

 

[PelliX]

Problem is there is no real way to do an apples to apples A/B since it requires actual playing since any differences in tone caps would affect the response of the pickup itself.

Hm, easy enough to make a mechanical rig that plucks strings - if you really think the value of the cap is "reacting" with the pickup(s). I don't see that happening, so simply running a capture of the pickup's output back multiple times would be enough for me.

All to say the tone cap thing IMO is real because it is an unbuffered connection to the pickup with a series resistance on top of that given the tone and vol pots are rolled back some.

By series resistance you mean the ESR to ground?

but to me based on how extreme the differences in modelling a Rangemaster buffered vs unbuffered are,

Well, ok, but... that's a completely different scenario.

 

[nortiks]

By series resistance you mean the ESR to ground?

The part of the pot on the pickup side of the wiper.

 

[TassieViking]

Does capacitor brand really make any difference?​

They can make a huge difference, to the weight of your wallet.

 

[nortiks]

Well, ok, but... that's a completely different scenario.

Yes and no. The point is the the pickup is an integral part of the circuit and it needs to be considered as an LRC before the circuit response can be understood, but often is considered as a simple sine wave source of some impedance. And in the tone circuit when the knobs are rolled back, the C is actually another LRC (though overwhelmingly C). If I have time tonight I'll model it in LTSpice and post later some actual data instead of just talking theory, because it really comes down to whether those effects are significant or not...