DSL20C or 20CR for small apartment

[Marcomel79]

If you consider the DSL5, then buy the old DSL5C without reverb - not the newer DSL5CR one.
The older one sounds better imho and is a real all tube amp - the newer is not and has a mosfet phase inverter.

I also own a DSL5C (not 5CR) and can confirm that. Love the tones i can get from it

 

[paul-e-mann]

An oscilloscope or black box?

Tnx

JHS Little Black Box of course!

 

[jb5150]

Are you referring to the LBB as an attenuator?
This may be causing some confusion.
Th

JHS Little Black Box of course!

Should I be cranking the volume full on the amp and controlling it from the LBB??

 

[jb5150]

Should I be cranking the volume on the amp to full and using the LBB to adjust? Does that get the tubes heated more, is that more from the gain?

 

[fitz]

Should I be cranking the volume on the amp to full and using the LBB to adjust? Does that get the tubes heated more, is that more from the gain?

You are just doing the same thing as the master volume.
The LBB throttles the preamp signal before it gets to the power tubes.
As has been said before, not sure why it makes any sense to use one on a DSL.

 

[paul-e-mann]

If you want gain yes.

 

[jb5150]

You are just doing the same thing as the master volume.
The LBB throttles the preamp signal before it gets to the power tubes.
As has been said before, not sure why it makes any sense to use one on a DSL.

Why then does it sound so different?

 

[fitz]

Why then does it sound so different?

I don't have a 40C or an LBB.
If it's working for you, it's working for you, I don't know why.
My original point is the LBB is not an attenuator, and I thought that may be causing confusion when you said you had an attenuator and an LBB.

 

[L.A. Nights]

My advice: C-I-L-L your landlord! Or, buy a house of your own...

 

[PelliX]

I see - so there was some confusion here. What I said still stands true, but indeed - big difference between the BB (or JBB, pick your name) and an attenuator. I wouldn't necessarily add an attenuator to the mix, I would expect it to be fine with what you have. If you do, refer to the earlier post for connection instructions, etc.

Why then does it sound so different?

The (master) volume on a DSL is not completely linear, you will notice things like Presence and Resonance controls will become more emphasized as you increase the volume. This is inherent and by design, though you can generally compensate for the missing or pronounced effect with the rest of the EQ (which operates identically at any volume). No, let's not go all Fletcher Munson curves here!

Should I be cranking the volume on the amp to full and using the LBB to adjust? Does that get the tubes heated more, is that more from the gain?

I would guess that about 1/3 or 1/4 volume should be fine provided you tone that down a little with the BB. The higher you put the volume on the amp, the more you are essentially stressing the parts. Of course amplifying the background noise/hiss/hum/static is a lot less harsh than the full load of the preamp for your power amp section, but in theory full volume - even with no input signal to the amp - is wearing it harder. Find a nice sounding spot in the volume's range and fine tune with the BB would be my advice....

With an attenuator, you could technically drive (and saturate) the output stage as much as you want without increased volume. As @fitz288 pointed out; they simply turn the 'excess' energy from the amp to heat (and in some cases magnetic fields, Weber et al). The BB solution is more amp friendly as a whole.

My advice: C-I-L-L your landlord! Or, buy a house of your own...

Have you seen the prices recently? I'm glad I bought when I did, not everyone was that lucky.

 

[jb5150]

I see - so there was some confusion here. What I said still stands true, but indeed - big difference between the BB (or JBB, pick your name) and an attenuator. I wouldn't necessarily add an attenuator to the mix, I would expect it to be fine with what you have. If you do, refer to the earlier post for connection instructions, etc.



The (master) volume on a DSL is not completely linear, you will notice things like Presence and Resonance controls will become more emphasized as you increase the volume. This is inherent and by design, though you can generally compensate for the missing or pronounced effect with the rest of the EQ (which operates identically at any volume). No, let's not go all Fletcher Munson curves here!



I would guess that about 1/3 or 1/4 volume should be fine provided you tone that down a little with the BB. The higher you put the volume on the amp, the more you are essentially stressing the parts. Of course amplifying the background noise/hiss/hum/static is a lot less harsh than the full load of the preamp for your power amp section, but in theory full volume - even with no input signal to the amp - is wearing it harder. Find a nice sounding spot in the volume's range and fine tune with the BB would be my advice....

With an attenuator, you could technically drive (and saturate) the output stage as much as you want without increased volume. As @fitz288 pointed out; they simply turn the 'excess' energy from the amp to heat (and in some cases magnetic fields, Weber et al). The BB solution is more amp friendly as a whole.



Have you seen the prices recently? I'm glad I bought when I did, not everyone was that lucky.

Again, I appreciate the thorough explanation.

I'm going to turn the BB up, and the amp volume down - I have it the opposite now.


The house option...where I am at it's $1000 a sq ft, average.

 

[scozz]

No no just the JHS black box. Is that not an attenuator?

No

 

[Darralld]

The DSL20 responds VERY differently to volume than the Origin20 - I have both.
Yes, there is no substitute for volume.
The O20 needs to be cranked to get native OD.
The DSL gets it's gain in the preamp - channel volume and the power tubes just add speaker growl and thump.
Attenuation and/or LBB in the loop will just get you back to the speakers not being pushed.
If you think you are hearing something from cranking a DSL20 into an attenuator, well, congratulations...

With the Two Notes he would no longer be using the speaker cab in the bedroom. Keep the cabinet unplugged & just come out of the Two Notes simulated output into a small monitor or desktop speakers. It will sound fantastic. Does the DSL20 have the speaker simulated output? I know it probably doesn't sound that great, but would also be an option to do the same thing.

 

[fitz]

With the Two Notes he would no longer be using the speaker cab in the bedroom. Keep the cabinet unplugged & just come out of the Two Notes simulated output into a small monitor or desktop speakers. It will sound fantastic. Does the DSL20 have the speaker simulated output? I know it probably doesn't sound that great, but would also be an option to do the same thing.

It would sound like a DSL20 through monitor speakers...
If that's what you think sounds fantastic, get a CODE.
And you would need to buy an attenuator that costs as much as the amp.
I don't understand why that's better than low volume through a real cab.
The DSL gets it's tone from the preamp, the power tubes are there to drive the speakers.
Without out volume through a full size guitar speaker(s), you loose all the yummy cranked speaker goodness.

Yes, it has emulated out.
No, I've never tried it.
Yes, it's been said it sucks.

 

[steveb63]

It would sound like a DSL20 through monitor speakers...
If that's what you think sounds fantastic, get a CODE.
And you would need to buy an attenuator that costs as much as the amp.
I don't understand why that's better than low volume through a real cab.
The DSL gets it's tone from the preamp, the power tubes are there to drive the speakers.
Without out volume through a full size guitar speaker(s), you loose all the yummy cranked speaker goodness.

Yes, it has emulated out.
No, I've never tried it.
Yes, it's been said it sucks.

I have tried the emulated out, and really worked hard at getting a sound I liked.

Zero success, couldn't make that sound good no matter what type of eq'ing I did.

Of course, all subjective etc... but if I needed to tap that for recording or reinforcement I grab a line out from a d.i. box, or use one of my attenuator's line out.

 

[fitz]

I keep forgetting to add, I got "different" tone when I changed the power tubes to a different type of tube.
I say this because it's not like the power tubes do nothing for the amp tone.
But the changed power tubes tone has nothing to do with the tone I get when I'm playing at TV volume vs. scaring the cats volume.
That "difference" comes from speakers giving the goods.
I don't run through a load box into a DI, but I just cant imagine monitor speakers replicating that cranked amp "tone".

 

[kilroy]

This is just another master volume. Peeamp can always be cranked and keep master down.
It seems pointless to me completely. Does not allow for power tube saturation. Any volume pedal in loop does the same but with a master volume, it does essentially nothing.

Yes, except for two things.... Master Volume knobs can be tricky at the bottom of the curve, i.e., on some amps there's a spot where it simply goes from "can't hear it" to "too loud for my apartment", and the other thing I use it for, since it's in my effects send, is a volume boost for soloing. I have yet to find a volume booster that increases volume without removing crunch, and volume pedals are a pain in the ass in live situations, but maybe you have an ankle that is finer tuned than mine

 

[kilroy]

No kidding. I did think of this recently. What volume are you playing at? I just can't imagine that amp sounding tight and punchy at volume 1.e

Wish there was a way to hear a sample, though through computer speakers it probably won't tell me much volume wise.


Edit: this is a pretty cool little demo of the JHS at 'bedroom volume'

I haven't experimented too much, but right now I have the channel volume at 12:00 (halfway), the master volume at 9:00 (about 15%) and the black box set to about 8:00 (also about 15%), but I move that around to adjust depending on who's home, what they're doing, etc. I'd be open to suggestions for other combinations that may sound better.

Also, since this is in the effects loop, assuming you a have a foot switch to turn the loop on and off, you can use this as a volume boost for soloing. It's counterintuitive though - you turn the effects loop OFF to boost the volume.

 

[William Martin]

So...my peavey 5150 combo collects dust at my folks' place as I'd rather not get evicted.

Currently I am using a little Spark amp that produces ~40 watts at 116SPL. That said I'm playing it at 2-3 volume.

The 40C/CR models make me a bit nervous as they can get quite loud. I know I could bring it down to 20watts but I'm reading it doesn't sound so hot at that volume.

I was thinking of the 20C or 20CR models, but even if they proved too loud and I added a JHS Little Black Amp Box Signal Converter
if that would suffice. As one commenter adds

"The Little Black Box pedal goes through the effects loop and acts as a master volume for the amp. Now I can max the volume to get that sweet tube overdrive and use the JHS pedal to reduce the volume to bedroom level. "

Maybe I should resign to sticking with my Spark for now or my computer setup.


Thoughts?

Why not try DSL 5CR? Definitely a great bedroom amp

 

[scozz]

I haven’t heard a Marshall D-out, or E-out that sounds anywhere close to good.

You’re right about the power tubes in a Dsl20 @fitz288, and the Dsl20 is the only Dsl that actually can get some power tube distortion.

It only occurs at high volumes though from what I've read.