DSL20C or 20CR for small apartment

[jb5150]

If

If everything is ok it's worth the money I guess.
You could still sell it if you don't like it after a while.
If new tubes are needed than it adds up with the costs - but that's always the problem when buying used unless it's a fresh produced amp.

I loved the one at the store today they wanted $150 more for the same amp.

 

[Moony]

I loved the one at the store today they wanted $150 more for the same amp.

Maybe it's worth paying $150 more for it?
I mean you have seen and played it, maybe the store could give you at least a 1 year warranty...

 

[paul-e-mann]

I m favoring the Marshall tone now.
Also 5150 is huge I don’t want it in my pad.

Then get a DSL5 and an extension cab, you'll be good to go. Sell that 5150 to pay for it.

 

[paul-e-mann]

.

 

[scozz]

My other question is the DSL20/40C good for old VH tones, or would a different marshall be more appropriate?

A Dsl40cr would be an excellent choice for low volume home playing. It has extra master volumes for each channel!

That’s a lot of flexibility in an amp. Ask the 40cr owners, they’ll tell you they sound great at low volumes,… or any other volumes!

 

[Jason Funk]

I’m in a similar situation, live in a high rise. I got the older DSL5 combo, can do 5/1 watt and even the 1w cranked I know would upset the neighbors, so it’s never cranked. That can get pretty loud, same with the Vox AC4 (4/1/.25 w). It’s amazing how loud even small amps can get, and for home use that’s already more than enough. If you also wanted the option to play with a band though, that might not be enough on it’s own….

 

[jb5150]

Got home late with the amp. It does in fact look almost mint. The seller focused on some superficial white marks on the top, which have mostly wiped off; guess he was worried I'd come down and nit-pick things.

Hooked up the JHS Black Box and couldn't be any happier. It exceeds well beyond any expectations I had. Even the clean channel with a bit of crunch sounds gorgeous. It tends to hold a luscious tone even at almost hush quiet settings.

Does this amp come with a footswitch? One wasn't included.

Also, I definitely want a better reverb and I'd like a delay, so any suggestions are welcome. Was thinking of just going for a basic boss pedal, but I'm not committed to the idea yet.

I put my Spark in storage and likely will sell at as I tend to stay true to one amp, and I see no point using a marshall emu when I have the real thing.

 

[jb5150]

A Dsl40cr would be an excellent choice for low volume home playing. It has extra master volumes for each channel!

That’s a lot of flexibility in an amp. Ask the 40cr owners, they’ll tell you they sound great at low volumes,… or any other volumes!

Got the 40C with an attenuator, and I m loving the low volume sounds.

 

[jb5150]

I’m in a similar situation, live in a high rise. I got the older DSL5 combo, can do 5/1 watt and even the 1w cranked I know would upset the neighbors, so it’s never cranked. That can get pretty loud, same with the Vox AC4 (4/1/.25 w). It’s amazing how loud even small amps can get, and for home use that’s already more than enough. If you also wanted the option to play with a band though, that might not be enough on it’s own….

The little black box is a miracle. I know some of the purest here will cringe, but to my ears it sounds more than good enough. I don't really care what an oscilloscope tells me.

 

[PelliX]

Got home late with the amp. It does in fact look almost mint. The seller focused on some superficial white marks on the top, which have mostly wiped off; guess he was worried I'd come down and nit-pick things.

Hooked up the JHS Black Box and couldn't be any happier. It exceeds well beyond any expectations I had. Even the clean channel with a bit of crunch sounds gorgeous. It tends to hold a luscious tone even at almost hush quiet settings.

It's just a pot *in the right place* Generic point on that; if the BB is too hair trigger, add a resistor in line with it (or swap the pot entirely). You can adjust its "range" this way, if desired. Did roughly the same to my RC-3 a while ago, as did someone else here on the forum (whom I would like to give credit for the idea, but I've honestly forgetten who it was).

Does this amp come with a footswitch? One wasn't included.

Yes, by default it does. I suppose you paid a good price for it, but I would casually ask the store whether they happen to have it knocking about and 'forgot' to include it. If not, they can be made or bought quite cheap.

Also, I definitely want a better reverb and I'd like a delay, so any suggestions are welcome. Was thinking of just going for a basic boss pedal, but I'm not committed to the idea yet.

Yes, the digital reverb on the DSL's is a bit lame, and a bit noisy on many models. You can moisten your tone with it, but not much more before it degrades, generally. Plenty of reverb options, and a BOSS pedal will get you there. BOSS/Roland have always had an edge with their digital reverb and delay circuits if you ask me. I use a GX-700 which "contains" both a reverb and delay pedal among other things. Like the GP-8 it's more less just a rackmount 'bunch of pedals' with some logic control, presets and so on.

I put my Spark in storage and likely will sell at as I tend to stay true to one amp, and I see no point using a marshall emu when I have the real thing.

I'm no Spark fan, but there is one thing it can do that your DSL won't; and that's provide a decent line out. The emulated out on the DSL (or any Marshall, actually) is really an insult to the rest of the amp. If you don't care about that feature, then ... I'd agree.

Got the 40C with an attenuator, and I m loving the low volume sounds.

My advice would be to attenuate just enough to avoid any 'hair trigger' stuff from the MV's on the amp itself. Driving the output stage harder is harder on the amp (valves, temperature and thus by extension thermal wear on components, etc), while there is little significant change in tone IMHO. Especially with the C[R] models (or any combo for that matter) the heat from the output valves radiates up into the chassis, drying the caps, stressing the circuit boards, etc. I run a little DC extractor fan on my DSL combo's - the result is that you won't get mild burns from operating the controls after giving it some and the components inside will live longer, happier lives.

Enjoy the amp, man!!

 

[jb5150]

It's just a pot *in the right place* Generic point on that; if the BB is too hair trigger, add a resistor in line with it (or swap the pot entirely). You can adjust its "range" this way, if desired. Did roughly the same to my RC-3 a while ago, as did someone else here on the forum (whom I would like to give credit for the idea, but I've honestly forgetten who it was).



Yes, by default it does. I suppose you paid a good price for it, but I would casually ask the store whether they happen to have it knocking about and 'forgot' to include it. If not, they can be made or bought quite cheap.



Yes, the digital reverb on the DSL's is a bit lame, and a bit noisy on many models. You can moisten your tone with it, but not much more before it degrades, generally. Plenty of reverb options, and a BOSS pedal will get you there. BOSS/Roland have always had an edge with their digital reverb and delay circuits if you ask me. I use a GX-700 which "contains" both a reverb and delay pedal among other things. Like the GP-8 it's more less just a rackmount 'bunch of pedals' with some logic control, presets and so on.



I'm no Spark fan, but there is one thing it can do that your DSL won't; and that's provide a decent line out. The emulated out on the DSL (or any Marshall, actually) is really an insult to the rest of the amp. If you don't care about that feature, then ... I'd agree.



My advice would be to attenuate just enough to avoid any 'hair trigger' stuff from the MV's on the amp itself. Driving the output stage harder is harder on the amp (valves, temperature and thus by extension thermal wear on components, etc), while there is little significant change in tone IMHO. Especially with the C[R] models (or any combo for that matter) the heat from the output valves radiates up into the chassis, drying the caps, stressing the circuit boards, etc. I run a little DC extractor fan on my DSL combo's - the result is that you won't get mild burns from operating the controls after giving it some and the components inside will live longer, happier lives.

Enjoy the amp, man!!

Very informative, thanks for the education

I did notice a slight bit of hair triggering you speak of.

Where can I get the DC extractor fan (link)?

Also the GX-700 sounds interesting. Wonder if there's just a reverb/delay box. I have an old Boss ME80 but it was just a mess to adjust.
I also have an Eventide Pitchfactor which I believe has a delay in it, unfortunately it malfunctions the display pins and goes crazy - I ought to get it fixed.


For chorus, would you recommend boss chorus ensemble? Also, modulation should run through the FX loop correct (phase effect included)? Would I run it before or after the Attenuator?

 

[jb5150]

Just got the Eventide working along with its stereo delay...sounds even better.

Using the neck pickup on my EB Musicman Axis, rolling the volume back a tad it sounds both buttery and velvety at the same time. Wow. Guess I can take delay off my shopping list.

I may want to grab another Boss compression sustainer, I really liked that pedal. I have a BBE Sonic Maximizer floating around too not sure if it's necessary at the low volumes I wonder if it'd be too much 'head room'.

This amp integrates with my rig so well, I keep picking up my guitar. I'm increasingly impressed.

 

[PelliX]

Very informative, thanks for the education

Lots of knowledgeable people here. Ask questions and you generally receive a ton of information.

I did notice a slight bit of hair triggering you speak of.

I would think that between the BB, MV on the amp and the attenuator that you should be able to get in the right ballpark of desired volume and adjust 'comfortably'. The MV on the 40 is a bit touchy at the beginning of the dial, but once you get past 9 o'clock it smoothes out (at least, that was the case for me).

Where can I get the DC extractor fan (link)?

Depends, any old crap PC fan would do the job, that's what I use. I run a 12V 80mm on 9V (pedal power supply). I was a bit wary about noise in the chain due to the inductive load, but in practice it appears to have zero effect. You can get fans in all kinds of shapes and sizes - I'd start by looking through my boxes of stuff, but if you're looking to buy new, uhm... just google "[desired size] dc fan". 60, 70 or 80mm might fit best, depending on whether/where/how you want to mount it. Then there's the option of powering it straight from the amp itself. I wouldn't personally do that, so I just soldered a female barrel jack to its lead. Plug in/out whenever. One thing to bear in mind is that high airflow is not really required here. You want it just gently sucking the warm air out. Don't shell out for something that advertises a massive CFL value.

Also the GX-700 sounds interesting. Wonder if there's just a reverb/delay box. I have an old Boss ME80 but it was just a mess to adjust.
I also have an Eventide Pitchfactor which I believe has a delay in it, unfortunately it malfunctions the display pins and goes crazy - I ought to get it fixed.

That ME80 would do the trick, totally. The GX-700 is nice because of the presets and MIDI support, plus the fact that you don't end up with the 30 - 40 pedals it 'substitutes' (alright, does ANYONE actually use a ring modulator??). They're not too expensive second hand, but the ME80 should do just fine, I think.

For chorus, would you recommend boss chorus ensemble? Also, modulation should run through the FX loop correct (phase effect included)?

Either that, or an old Guyatone are my goto chorus', sure. Generally, TBE (Time Based Effects) go in the loop, the rest goes in front of the amp. That's not a hard rule, though - I run some TBE's before the preamp, too. Different horses for different courses, whatever floats your boat. There's no right or wrong, just whatever gets you the sound you want...

Would I run it before or after the Attenuator?

Pay close attention here: The attenuator is the ONLY thing that may ever sit between your amp's speaker outputs and the speaker/cab! Plugging any kind of FX device or stuff to the speaker outputs can/will damage both the amp and the unit attached to it!

Inversely, if you connect an attenuator to your FX loop, you're unlikely to do any damage - but it won't work. I mean this in the best of ways - I don't mean to be demeaning at all, but take note of the following:

1) Running a valve amp without a load (speaker with or without attenuator) => bad things can/will happen to your amp.
2) Connecting anything else than a speaker/cab or a (correctly spec'd) attenuator to your speaker outputs => bad things can/will happen to your amp, and maybe what you connect to it.
3) Never disconnect or connect anything to/from the speaker outputs when the amp is 'live' (so off standby and powered on).
4) Whenever you mess about plugging and unplugging things, do a sanity check before taking the amp off standby or turning it on. If you don't, you guessed it, bad things can happen.
5) If you ever expect sound, but get none. Take a step back. Immediately. Put the amp on standby, verify your wiring is correct. Start again with the volume down and increase only as expected (no amp needs to be dimed in order to hear whether it's working).
6) (this should have been 2 or 3 or something) Pay close attention to impedance ratings and adhere to them religiously until you have a basic understanding of how this stuff works.

If you want to change cabs, speakers, attenuator - you can ensure the amp is on standby and swap stuff around. Think of standby as the curtains closing in the theatre; it's now safe to do stuff that you can't otherwise. Likewise, before you open those curtains, everything had better be right.

 

[paul-e-mann]

The little black box is a miracle. I know some of the purest here will cringe, but to my ears it sounds more than good enough. I don't really care what an oscilloscope tells me.

I use one in the loop of my SV20H and it works great, congrats on your success!

 

[fitz]

Got the 40C with an attenuator, and I m loving the low volume sounds.

The little black box is a miracle.

Are you referring to the LBB as an attenuator?
This may be causing some confusion.
The LBB is a volume box that can go out front or in the loop - it's NOT an attenuator.
Attenuators go between the amp output and the speaker and convert the amp power to heat to lower the power going to the speaker.

 

[LittleD]

So...my peavey 5150 combo collects dust at my folks' place as I'd rather not get evicted.

Currently I am using a little Spark amp that produces ~40 watts at 116SPL. That said I'm playing it at 2-3 volume.

The 40C/CR models make me a bit nervous as they can get quite loud. I know I could bring it down to 20watts but I'm reading it doesn't sound so hot at that volume.

I was thinking of the 20C or 20CR models, but even if they proved too loud and I added a JHS Little Black Amp Box Signal Converter
if that would suffice. As one commenter adds

"The Little Black Box pedal goes through the effects loop and acts as a master volume for the amp. Now I can max the volume to get that sweet tube overdrive and use the JHS pedal to reduce the volume to bedroom level. "

Maybe I should resign to sticking with my Spark for now or my computer setup.


Thoughts?

I have a mini silver jubilee 2525 that I play in hotel rooms as I travel for work. I crank the volume to get that great tube sound but keep the gain down below 1. Works great !

 

[scozz]

Got the 40C with an attenuator, and I m loving the low volume sounds.

The little black box is a miracle. I know some of the purest here will cringe, but to my ears it sounds more than good enough. I don't really care what an oscilloscope tells me.

Wait, you’re using a little black box AND an attenuator with a Dsl40? I get using a black box with a Marshall Dsl40c amp, it gives you another master volume, like a Dsl40cr, but using an attenuator?

The Dsl40 gets it overdriven tones from the preamp section, not the power section. So what exactly is an attenuator doing with an amp that uses the preamp section for gain?

Just wondering how that works.

 

[jb5150]

I use one in the loop of my SV20H and it works great, congrats on your success!

An oscilloscope or black box?

Tnx

 

[jb5150]

Wait, you’re using a little black box AND an attenuator with a Dsl40? I get using a black box with a Marshall Dsl40c amp, it gives you another master volume, like a Dsl40cr, but using an attenuator?

The Dsl40 gets it overdriven tones from the preamp section, not the power section. So what exactly is an attenuator doing with an amp that uses the preamp section for gain?

Just wondering how that works.

No no just the JHS black box. Is that not an attenuator?

 

[Moony]

No no just the JHS black box. Is that not an attenuator?

No it's just a volume pot you add to your amp that sits in the effect loop.
A real attenuator is placed between amp output and speaker.