DSL40CR- Help dialing the amp in - Tone questions

[Bruce Campbell]

I keep the tone shift button always out, and, very important, the volume always at full on both channels and adjust volume as desired with the masters. It might need a little tweaking depending on the room and your guitar, but give it a shot and let me know how it works for you. Saludos!

I find this really intriguing as I have seen so many videos where people recommend the opposite - Dime the two master volumes and control volume with channel volume. I am yet to receive my DSL40CR to experiment but I believe these will be two totally different types of tones to choose from and I look forward to spending my first evening with the amp.

 

[jeffb]

On the CR look at it this way

Channel Volumes= Master volume on a normal single channel amp like a 2204.

CR Master section is a Global master.

If you keep the channel volumes low and utilize the Global (master) way up- you are not stressing the power section and mostly amplifying the pre-amp gain. Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

If you stress the channel volumes, you are pushing the power section and PI like in a 2204

Then you tame the overall volume by utilizing the "global" master

 

[calzone]

I wonder if the "stressing the power section" idea is right for DLS40CR. For example - on a clean channel, even with max channel volume the sound is still clean. The power section is not clipping it at all.
According to this explanation: http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/tube-facts-and-info-by-martystrat54.27574/ the sound of modern high gain amps such as DSL is shaped in the preamp section as there is no further distortion "shaping" going on power section.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

According to this explanation: http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/tube-facts-and-info-by-martystrat54.27574/

What an informative thread archive. Great read. Definitely getting a backup set of tubes, at least. Maybe do some rolling down the road. Reading all of this while I wait for my amp to arrive is killing me.

 

[Mitchell Pearrow]

What an informative thread archive. Great read. Definitely getting a backup set of tubes, at least. Maybe do some rolling down the road. Reading all of this while I wait for my amp to arrive is killing me.

Wait till you have it in your hands, and can’t wait to get home from work to light it up.
Or caught in traffic to further delay your playing time .
At this moment I have mine warming up to let off a little bit of steam !!
Cheers

 

[Jethro Rocker]

On the CR look at it this way

Channel Volumes= Master volume on a normal single channel amp like a 2204.

CR Master section is a Global master.

If you keep the channel volumes low and utilize the Global (master) way up- you are not stressing the power section and mostly amplifying the pre-amp gain. Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

If you stress the channel volumes, you are pushing the power section and PI like in a 2204

Then you tame the overall volume by utilizing the "global" master

I don't believe so. If one could tame the volume yet still push the power sectionnin this fashion, it would be a built jn attenuator. It is not. It is a master volume. If it is low, it doesnt matter where the other volumes are set. Channel volumes are there to set the difference between channels.
I have master and channel volume on a few amps. None work in that fashion.

 

[jeffb]

I wonder if the "stressing the power section" idea is right for DLS40CR. For example - on a clean channel, even with max channel volume the sound is still clean. The power section is not clipping it at all.
According to this explanation: http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/tube-facts-and-info-by-martystrat54.27574/ the sound of modern high gain amps such as DSL is shaped in the preamp section as there is no further distortion "shaping" going on power section.

I'll take trying myself with my own amps versus documentation. Try using a DSL at very high volumes or with an attenuator. (and pretty much takes speaker breakup out of the equation) The power section most certainly gets involved. It wasn't DESIGNED for that- So that consumers aren't scared of having another NMV Marshall that is ungodly loud in order to get gobs of gain- but the power section absolutely contributes to the sound when pushed.

EDIT- I'm speaking of the DSLs I have experience with- 40C. 15w. Old JCM2000 50 and 100W.

 

[jeffb]

I don't believe so. If one could tame the volume yet still push the power sectionnin this fashion, it would be a built jn attenuator. It is not. It is a master volume. If it is low, it doesnt matter where the other volumes are set. Channel volumes are there to set the difference between channels.
I have master and channel volume on a few amps. None work in that fashion.

(serious question) So what is the application then for two channel volumes and two Masters? If you want one channel to be set lower than the other, one volume control would be sufficient like on the Original D/VSL 40C and 100H.

 

[Chris-in-LA]

SkyMonkey,

Reconfirm how I get all three speaker working.

There are three jacks:
1x16
1x8 - 2x16
1x4 - 2x8

Currently I have the 2x12 cab in the 1x4 - 2x8 jack because the cab has two 8ohm speakers.

I cannot simply plug the stock speaker in the combo into the 1x16 jack and have them play nice? (Youre saying that by using the 1x16 jack it will shut off the use of the other jacks?)

You don’t go by the number of speakers, you go by what the cab is rated at. Two 8 ohm speakers can by wired for either 4 or 16 ohms. If your internal combo speaker is 16ohms and your extension cab is rated at 16ohms you would use the two 8ohm jacks.

 

[SkyMonkey]

SkyMonkey,

Reconfirm how I get all three speaker working.

There are three jacks:
1x16
1x8 - 2x16
1x4 - 2x8

Currently I have the 2x12 cab in the 1x4 - 2x8 jack because the cab has two 8ohm speakers.

I cannot simply plug the stock speaker in the combo into the 1x16 jack and have them play nice? (Youre saying that by using the 1x16 jack it will shut off the use of the other jacks?)

Sorry I missed this post @Whizzinby.
The Mesa cab (Recto Compact 212?) is 8 ohms total (2x16 ohm wired in parallel).

Combo only - internal speaker jack into 1 x 16 ohm jack.

Cab only - speaker cable (NOT INSTRUMENT CABLE) into a 1 x 8 ohm (2 x 16 ohm) jack.

Combo and cab - internal speaker into a 1 x 8 (2 x 16 ohm) ohm jack, and cab into a 1 x 4 ohm (2 x 8 ohm) jack.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

(serious question) So what is the application then for two channel volumes and two Masters? If you want one channel to be set lower than the other, one volume control would be sufficient like on the Original D/VSL 40C and 100H.

Using the second master as a volume boost. Overall volume of both channels is set with the MV rather than each channel volume independently.The YJM was described as having a built in attenuator with approx wattages listed on it. If the CR series did this with the MV setup why would it not be advertised as such?
If the volume is low and there is no attenuator taking up the excess power as heat, you are not really pushing the power section whether the MV is up high or not. The channel volume being low is sending less signal to the power section. The jubilee has a Lead Master for that channel plus an overall MV. You are not engaging the power section and attenuating it by running the lead channel lower. Same with the 6101 or the JVM.
The DSLs you have are not the MV system like this, they have channel volumes only..

 

[jeffb]

Using the second master as a volume boost. Overall volume of both channels is set with the MV rather than each channel volume independently.The YJM was described as having a built in attenuator with approx wattages listed on it. If the CR series did this with the MV setup why would it not be advertised as such?
.

I've no idea. I'm genuinely curious how the CR works. because if the Masters are there to set the overall volume of the amp-and the channel volumes are not doing anything to the power section, then why bother with having channel volumes? You'd have a gain for green and red, A Master 1 for overall volume and a Master 2 for a volume boost. The only reason I can see for having channel volumes as well is if there is a huge discrepancy in volume when switching from green to red.

Otherwise the system on the CR40 seems redundant.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

I've no idea. I'm genuinely curious how the CR works. because if the Masters are there to set the overall volume of the amp-and the channel volumes are not doing anything to the power section, then why bother with having channel volumes? You'd have a gain for green and red, A Master 1 for overall volume and a Master 2 for a volume boost. The only reason I can see for having channel volumes as well is if there is a huge discrepancy in volume when switching from green to red.

Otherwise the system on the CR40 seems redundant.

Oh I see.
Channel volumes would be so that say channel 1 in clean or crunch is maybe slightly lower volume than channel 2. Once that is set, MV1 controls overall level, same as a JVM. Depending what mode you are in, you may have to adjust for the descrepancy in level between both channels. Without them, one is left hoping the 2 channels match, same as a DSL40, you need 2 channel volumes.
The second master can then give a level boost to channel 1 say without having to resort to changjng channels. Or playing a hardcore song in channel 2, you still have a volume boost without needing an extra pedal jn the loop.
It works like a JVM. Really nice system actually. Very versatile. But will not push the power until both channel and MV are up.

 

[SkyMonkey]

I have the DSL40CR.
For me the MVs are there to either set a volume boost, or to fix the intrinsic volume discrepancy between the Classic Clean and Crunch modes.
I believe the omission of a gain stage in the Clean circuit makes it slightly quieter than the Crunch mode.
So I used the MVs as a workaround to even up the Clean and Crunch mode volumes:

Use Channel Gains to set the tones of the Classic Crunch and the Ultra channels, the Clean stays pretty much clean even at higher gain settings.
Assign the Classic Clean mode to the Green MV.
Then use the channel Volumes to even out the volumes of the Crunch and Ultra modes, and assign the Red MV to those three modes.
Now the MVs can be used to balance the Clean mode to the other three (approximately 1 notch difference).

This removes the option for an MV volume boost, but at least you can even out the channel volumes, which wasn't possible with the older non-MV DSL40C that had the same Clean/Crunch discrepancy.

But I now run the DSL40CR with a GT-100 in 5CM, slaving a Valvestate amp for stereo.
This causes the Clean/Crunch discrepancy to return in the slaved amp because the MVs are after the FX loop.
So I now have the MVs as a volume boost (which I rarely use).
The Clean/Crunch volume discrepancy is now fixed inside the GT-100 when MIDI switched to the Classic Clean user patches I made.

 

[purpleplexi]

I can tell you that if you play somewhere you can get the masters above 2 o clock and the channel above say 12 o clock a whole new thing starts happening. There's a definite notch in the masters somewhere around 1 or 2 o clock and above that the CR really starts cooking. Has to be the power tubes at that volume. I suppose that's true of any amp but it's really obvious on the CR.

 

[scozz]

I wonder if the "stressing the power section" idea is right for DLS40CR. For example - on a clean channel, even with max channel volume the sound is still clean. The power section is not clipping it at all.
According to this explanation: http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/tube-facts-and-info-by-martystrat54.27574/ the sound of modern high gain amps such as DSL is shaped in the preamp section as there is no further distortion "shaping" going on power section.

I believe that calzone is correct here. I’ve heard that the Dsl line is made to get its overdriven tones mostly from the preamp section, not the power section.

 

[Whizzinby]

I can tell you that if you play somewhere you can get the masters above 2 o clock and the channel above say 12 o clock a whole new thing starts happening. There's a definite notch in the masters somewhere around 1 or 2 o clock and above that the CR really starts cooking. Has to be the power tubes at that volume. I suppose that's true of any amp but it's really obvious on the CR.

That’s what I experienced, the tone of the amp improved the more you have the master cranked. A lot of YouTube reviews recommended to dime the master for tonal reasons, then use the channel volume for volume control.

My assumption was the gain/channel volume determines how hard you push the preamp and the master determined how hard you hit the power amp, but reading through this discussion I’m not sure.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

That’s what I experienced, the tone of the amp improved the more you have the master cranked. A lot of YouTube reviews recommended to dime the master for tonal reasons, then use the channel volume for volume control.

My assumption was the gain/channel volume determines how hard you push the preamp and the master determined how hard you hit the power amp, but reading through this discussion I’m not sure.

Master cranked yes. But if channel volumes are very low like 1 on the dial low, you are not sending enough signal to power section to really be pushing it.
No free rides. Either a built in attenuator, power soak, different power levels or outboard attenuator to get power tube saturation at lower volumes. Thats why the DSL line has 2 power modes on it. If you could run master up and channel very low, why bother with a half power switch? It's why the mini Jubilee, which has a channel amd MV, has 2 power settings including a 5 watt.

 

[Whizzinby]

Master cranked yes. But if channel volumes are very low like 1 on the dial low, you are not sending enough signal to power section to really be pushing it.
No free rides. Either a built in attenuator, power soak, different power levels or outboard attenuator to get power tube saturation at lower volumes. Thats why the DSL line has 2 power modes on it. If you could run master up and channel very low, why bother with a half power switch? It's why the mini Jubilee, which has a channel amd MV, has 2 power settings including a 5 watt.

I don’t disagree with that.

From my experience the tone clearly improved on 40w mode and with the masters as high as you could. My base setup was 40w, Master around 3 o’clock, and then channel volume as loud as I could without running my family out of the house, which was about 9-10 o’clock. Lol It’s more than possible that wasn’t enough to push the preamp, but generally speaking I found diming the Master was better than diming the channel volume and reducing the master. (Or using 20w mode)

Of course this is coming from someone who couldnt dial the amp in to satisfaction, so...

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Volume helps everything. Speaker break up, etc. Sadly it's often hard to do.