Guitarist Dies From Electrocution

[Del Rei]

That was difficult to watch.

For the first time ever, I'm actually considering using wireless ... even here at home!

Yeah, I guess the wireless would help...

 

[picturevalve]

"Fender put a Cap between Line (hot) and Neutral.."

Not so, the cap is connected between the ground switch and chassis. The switch connects the other end of the cap to either line (hot) or neutral.
If it was connected across line and neutral it would blow the fuse if it went short, also it wouldn't be connected to chassis in this instance.

See music.stackexchange for a couple of diagrams on death cap, I'm not allowed to post links yet.

 

[ITburst]

I’ve actually been on line shopping this morning now for a wireless system.
I’ll have to visit my local shop on the way home

 

[Derrick111]

While on tour in Europe, I was nearly killed at a gig in Toulouse, France. I was using rented/borrowed amps on that tour to save shipping costs, using relatively modern Marshall (JCM900) or Hughes & Kettner amps. Not my 1st choice, but I pretty much sound like me regardless of amp. During the show, the singer leaned over to me for a "shared" backup vocal into the mic he was holding and then we both blew backwards form one another with a thick, deep blue spark several inches long between us. It hurt tremendously, and it took me a few bars of the song to catch myself again. Wow,! Then it happened again later in the set and I shouted at the fucker not to touch me again the rest of the show. I am so thankful that I did not come home in a body bag. Rest in peace to the poor fellow in Brazil and condolences to his family/friends.

You can get one of these for between $4 and $9 at the local hardware/home center or on line. Its a simple "receptacle tester". I have one for my house, but I after some thought, I am going to pack one in my guitar case as well for gigs/jams/studio sessions. That guy in Brazil looks like he was using modern equipment, so this isn't just for old amps people. Eliminating the "death cap" isn't the only precaution unfortunately.

 

[Norfolk Martin]

Sounds like something really went wrong, like HT from the transformer getting onto his instrument. Mains in Brazil is 110v, but he also might also have gotten caught between two phases somehow . French mains voltage is 230v Ac , as is the UK. Having felt both UK 230v, and US 110v, the difference is substantial.. 230 really feels like it could kill you rapidly.

Fortunately, this is becoming much rarer, at least in the US, where differential GFI breakers are becoming the norm by code. This type of breaker measures the difference between the current flowing in the live and the current returning in the neutral. if it differs by more than about 30mA , i.e. current is flowing to ground via some other path, like a guitarists arm, it will trip very quickly, typically within 20-30 milliseconds. Older venues do not, of course, have these. The current US mania for vintage amps with unpolarized 2 pin plugs doesn't help this issue .

Something as simple as this on you amp plug can help

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-W...W7p614hT3X-LaX-3aTYaAgUWEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


Also, the isolation transformer, as opposed to a wireless system , is often an overlooked remedy for this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer

The last place I ran sound, I insisted on the amps and the board being plugged into 20A isolation transformers to avoid some idiot trying to electrocute themselves with their cool vintage amp.

Neutral and ground are tied together , so current can either flow live to neutral or live to ground. hence , if your strings are live, and you are well- grounded (like by touching a metal mic body that is grounded) or standing on the classic wet outdoor stage) , current flows through you to ground. The isolation transformer breaks the linkage between neutral and ground, so live on the other side of the transformer will not flow to ground, only to neutral.

Techs have used these on their benches for years to reduce the likelihood of shocks, but guitarists seldom seem to use them. Quick note if you are using one : DO NOT allow the tech to plug a direct line into your amp unless it has a lifted ground on it . This may connect the ground from the board back to your strings , and undo the effect of the transformer.

 

[Norfolk Martin]

While on tour in Europe, I was nearly killed at a gig in Toulouse, France. I was using rented/borrowed amps on that tour to save shipping costs, using relatively modern Marshall (JCM900) or Hughes & Kettner amps. Not my 1st choice, but I pretty much sound like me regardless of amp. During the show, the singer leaned over to me for a "shared" backup vocal into the mic he was holding and then we both blew backwards form one another with a thick, deep blue spark several inches long between us.

Yea, this is one of the things folks don't always understand, There is a general perception that is you touch something 'live" you will be electrocuted. This is not necessarily so. If your body is connected to neither neutral nor ground , no current will flow. you can swing from a high voltage transmission line and not be electrocuted as long as you don't touch the pylon or anything else grounded. In the case the singer's mic was probably live , but he had rubber shoes on and a dry stage so no current flowed UNTIL you came along with one your hands on grounded guitar strings and bam!

 

[PelliX]

While on tour in Europe, I was nearly killed at a gig in Toulouse, France. I was using rented/borrowed amps on that tour to save shipping costs, using relatively modern Marshall (JCM900) or Hughes & Kettner amps. Not my 1st choice, but I pretty much sound like me regardless of amp. During the show, the singer leaned over to me for a "shared" backup vocal into the mic he was holding and then we both blew backwards form one another with a thick, deep blue spark several inches long between us. It hurt tremendously, and it took me a few bars of the song to catch myself again. Wow,! Then it happened again later in the set and I shouted at the fucker not to touch me again the rest of the show. I am so thankful that I did not come home in a body bag. Rest in peace to the poor fellow in Brazil and condolences to his family/friends.

You can get one of these for between $4 and $9 at the local hardware/home center or on line. Its a simple "receptacle tester". I have one for my house, but I after some thought, I am going to pack one in my guitar case as well for gigs/jams/studio sessions. That guy in Brazil looks like he was using modern equipment, so this isn't just for old amps people. Eliminating the "death cap" isn't the only precaution unfortunately.

View attachment 102483

Yes, one of those would work. That's even the "expensive" version though. Even if I wasn't my own tech, electrician and about everything else, I would carry an electrician's screwdriver around with me. Not quality measuring apparatus, but cheap and handy. Better than nothing and for a buck or two... also doubles as a ...uhm, screwdriver.

Sounds like something really went wrong, like HT from the transformer getting onto his instrument. Mains in Brazil is 110v, but he also might also have gotten caught between two phases somehow . French mains voltage is 230v Ac , as is the UK. Having felt both UK 230v, and US 110v, the difference is substantial.. 230 really feels like it could kill you rapidly.

Without starting one of those endless Internet discussions, it's not the voltage that kills you. Very, very condensed version is that it's the amps, though ~15mA in a worst case can stop your heart. The chance of this happening is extremely low because it requires that current traveling through your heart, hitting the heart at the right (or wrong, eh) moment, quite a few other factors. Of course you need a certain (quite low) voltage to travel through the human body and the higher the voltage, the further it could arc to hit you. I've had 110 and 220 and EU 3-phase, plus a couple of nasty differentials between 220 circuits. The 3-phase was the harshest (despite not being earthed very well) but the differential between circuits was the nastiest - also because the fuses didn't blow. Thank God (or an argument between Edison and Tesla) for AC mains...

As for GFI's, yes - excellent and in fact often <30mA. Many countries have even stricter requirements.

Techs have used these on their benches for years to reduce the likelihood of shocks, but guitarists seldom seem to use them. Quick note if you are using one : DO NOT allow the tech to plug a direct line into your amp unless it has a lifted ground on it . This may connect the ground from the board back to your strings , and undo the effect of the transformer.

Exactly.

 

[George Marshall]

Speaking of getting shocked.. I won a AAA baseball team national anthem contest back in the 90's playing a Jimi Hendrix style Star Spangled Banner out of 60 contestants.. When I went to do the gig it had rained the night before so the ground and grass was all wet. They had me set up on homeplate. I took a half stack. It was the season opener and the stands were packed and both teams lined up down the base lines. All the walking on the wet grass got my shoes wet and I could feel my socks were wet. When I turned everything on I right away noticed I was getting some voltage through the strings.. with the announcer saying "All please rise for our national anthem" it was go time so there was nothing I could do but grin and bare it.. I started to play and right away I noticed the harder I grabbed the strings the more shocked I was getting so I played it as lightly on the strings as I could... what an ordeal.. I finished and it was a great success but it was truly an electrifying experience!! I was happy when it was over.

 

[picturevalve]

GFI is called RCD (residual current device) over here in the UK. If you're using an electrician's screwdriver ( not recommended as you are part of the circuit btw) then make sure it's dry. Well, that's obvious, you say but the apocryphal tale over here is the story of the electrician's mate who dropped one in water and just wiped it off and put it back in the toolbox. When it was used next...

 

[PelliX]

GFI is called RCD (residual current device) over here in the UK. If you're using an electrician's screwdriver ( not recommended as you are part of the circuit btw) then make sure it's dry. Well, that's obvious, you say but the apocryphal tale over here is the story of the electrician's mate who dropped one in water and just wiped it off and put it back in the toolbox. When it was used next...

I always insulate mine in tin foil so they can't get wet.

 

[Antmax]

Damn! Poor guys. Helps justify my wireless relay. No cables, no direct line to an AC power source.

 

[Filipe Soares]

not only a wireless system may save you, but using EMGs would save your ass too. (no ground).

 

[JazzBrandee]

Always sad to see something like this happen - a sad reminder about the dangers of the beasts we play with and love.

 

[MarshallDog]

Most I ever had gotten was a good zap to my lip from the mic

 

[shermanpup]

Wow...sounds a bit wild...- was the stage tech a 10 year old? Very sad.
A lot of venues can be more dangerous with the AC mains- especially if you have to bump up and use a higher AC supply.

When on the road in the 80's playing clubs, I used isolation transformers I plugged the amps into . These were used by television repair men . It can only supply so much current . Like said here . You never know what type of AC wiring you are running into

 

[diego_cl]

I've bought recently a 2nd hand Deluxe Reverb RI65. The tremolo was noisy and sometimes the reverb had feedback issues. A few weeks ago I realized that the noise went away while touching the chassis or the footswitch, so I tested the ground with a DMM and there was the problem; it's a 110v amp in a 220v country, and the voltage converter that I got with the amp didn't had continuity in the ground leads. Nothing was broken, but the voltage converter was wrongly assembled. After fixing the problem, the amp's noise and feedback issues went away.

 

[neikeel]

RCDs are really the way to go at home and play but the places we play now insist on PAT tested stuff and the wiring is generally up to scratch (have played in some scary places in the past).

 

[saxon68]

Sorry if I derail a bit here but are wireless systems worth it? I can’t help but think of how compressed music is when streamed, which is why I never stream music.
Will I notice a loss of anything, other than my cash?

You’ll never notice the difference live with a band.

 

[WellBurnTheSky]

While on tour in Europe, I was nearly killed at a gig in Toulouse, France. I was using rented/borrowed amps on that tour to save shipping costs, using relatively modern Marshall (JCM900) or Hughes & Kettner amps. Not my 1st choice, but I pretty much sound like me regardless of amp. During the show, the singer leaned over to me for a "shared" backup vocal into the mic he was holding and then we both blew backwards form one another with a thick, deep blue spark several inches long between us. It hurt tremendously, and it took me a few bars of the song to catch myself again. Wow,! Then it happened again later in the set and I shouted at the fucker not to touch me again the rest of the show. I am so thankful that I did not come home in a body bag. Rest in peace to the poor fellow in Brazil and condolences to his family/friends.

You can get one of these for between $4 and $9 at the local hardware/home center or on line. Its a simple "receptacle tester". I have one for my house, but I after some thought, I am going to pack one in my guitar case as well for gigs/jams/studio sessions. That guy in Brazil looks like he was using modern equipment, so this isn't just for old amps people. Eliminating the "death cap" isn't the only precaution unfortunately.

View attachment 102483

Wow, that's pretty bad. Electrical security regulations are VERY strict for venues here in France (and in most Europe), the venue could easily get shut down... And yeah, differential 30mA breakers are mandatory, even for residential homes.
Glad you weren't too badly harmed, and you're very right, it never hurts making sure the electrical outlets you're provided are safe to use.

You’ll never notice the difference live with a band.

I concur. If anything, it's even better with digital wireless systems, as they don't require your signal going through a compander, which affects dynamic response (I can't stand analog wireless systems for that reason).

 

[XTRXTR]

"Fender put a Cap between Line (hot) and Neutral.."

Not so, the cap is connected between the ground switch and chassis. The switch connects the other end of the cap to either line (hot) or neutral.
If it was connected across line and neutral it would blow the fuse if it went short, also it wouldn't be connected to chassis in this instance.

See music.stackexchange for a couple of diagrams on death cap, I'm not allowed to post links yet.

There was no ground. That switch you talk about may have been called a ground switch but that is a misnomer. With only a line and neutral power cord the cap is between line and neutral if flipped to the line side. Neutral is chassis. Depending on which specific Fender layout the cap is bypassing the fuse.

Even with the fuse properly inline it could pass 1 A into you without blowing. In fact, depending on the layout, you wouldn't even have to turn on your amp power switch and it could kill you if it was plugged into the wall outlet. All you would have to do is touch your amp chassis, or plug you guitar cable into it while holding the strings of your guitar.