Guitarist Dies From Electrocution

[vivaldi0]

Always bring your own main power conditioner and a voltmeter! Sad

 

[MP+]

Well no question that there's been a truckload of near misses. Bottom line is that the smart way forward is to take measures to protect ourselves. Sometimes even RCD devices and mains outlet testers aren't good enough. I think back to my rehearsal room incident where my arm hairs went afro. I wasn't even aware it was happening, the guitarist I was jamming with was the first to notice. The place was ancient and was actually condemned shortly after the whole incident. That's part of the problem, so much to do with locations related to the music industry are just scraping by, which results in neglect. In my case, the power outlets might have been generally Ok and passed any outlet test, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that an entire outlet circuit is safe. I was running my Jubilee 50 watt with the output tapped and fed into a 180 watt RMS/ per side stereo mosfet, while my jamming pal was running a Mesa stereo simulclass power amp, I think it was 300 watt all tube, as much to say we were drawing heaps of current, probably more than would have typically happened there. Amp. constructors have something to answer for here, it might be as simple as strapping a couple of high current zener diodes from the instrument inputs back to the mains input socket to trigger a short. The zeners would only conduct when a set voltage occurs under a fault condition to trip the mains outlet fuse or circuit breaker as would be the case with any faulty hand held appliance like a power tool. For now, wireless is the best portable easily workable practical solution, that's no guarantee that a chassis or faceplate of an Amp. won't go hot, but at least there's some risk reduction in that you're not constantly holding on to any metallic part of the Amp. as with a guitar or Mic. As I said earlier, the wireless systems around these days are super high quality, compact and not overly expensive. They might lose some tone but that's really minimal and would be un-noticeable in the context of a live gig. They also have their other advantages in not wearing out or going crackly and intermittent, or ripping the socket out of your guitar, or tipping your Amp. over if someone tripped over your cable at a gig.

 

[Bat Pup]

I wonder if there is a death cap or a two prong cord on that amp? Maybe it didn't have a transformer? This is crazy for this day and age.

Actually , even if he had a three prong you can still get electicuted if the electical system has a bad ground in it. It happened to me at venue that we were fixing to play at. I told the lead and Bass guitarist to shut their amps off and unplug plug them we're not going to play.

 

[Sir Don]

 

[George Dickens]

^^^really?^^^ in the pool! nahh-come on-theye probably electricians and its an email inside joke - still-bad - making such pictures is danagerous

 

[MP+]

agree, although a ground isn't always necessary to receive an electrical shock, in most cases, this is why people do get shocked. theoretically you can hold the hot wire of a 110vac circuit (I have personally done this, 35 years in the electrical maintenance field) and if you are well insulated from ground, you won't get electrocuted. that being said, a circuit with proper grounding protection will prevent you from getting shocked in the first place.

Fair point. Looking back in history, it's fair to say that guitar Amps. originated from U.S. 110 volt ac where these dangers were not and are not as severe. It all changes when we get up to 200+ volts in Europe and the UK, or in the case Australia; 240 volts at 10 amps.

 

[XTRXTR]

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the strip is on a flip flop pontoon. They probably have a GFCI

 

[WellBurnTheSky]

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Darwin Award in the making...or at least strong contenders !

 

[Flowboy]

Very sad to read this. I just think it could've been any one of us. I gig with my pro reverb plugged via an RCD safety cut-out adaptor. A couple of times it just tripped straight away (old venues, bad wiring) - to play the gig I had to take off the RCD, but I made sure I touched nothing else. My amp has earth cable etc. but it spoilt the gig somewhat... Another time, my bro's punk RnB band singer threw himself on the floor in a gig & the band played on, until they realised the mike was electrocuting him. Luckily he survived. I don't even like metal toggle amp switches for this reason.

 

[Poweramp]

I’m an electrician. As with any incident you will always have people, sometimes unqualified/untrained people speculating, finger pointing or jumping to conclusions without knowing the full facts or having any real technical understanding. In my own experience, it’s usually a combination of issues which lead to accidents happening. As well as the guitarists own equipment, the technician and competencies of those involved in setting up the show, the venue electrical installation (Including it’s maintenance & inspection records for all electrical equipment including cabling, stage set up in the venue etc) will most certainly all form part of the investigation. You can be sure the various insurance parties will go through everything, and someone will eventually have to answer for this.

 

[Filipe Soares]

I just came up with a nice idea, adding a fuse to the guitar ground. it would be enough to ground the guitar but in the event of a bigger discharge it would prevent a bigger problem. 100ma would be more the enough.

 

[XTRXTR]

Another prevention method is to use a hum eliminator such the Ebtech but there are many others. This goes between your guitar and the amp, uses small 1:1 isolation transformer between your signal from the guitar to the amp. With it you are electrically isolated from you amp. I keep it in my rig at the ready when needed, along with the outlet tester and the rebar and jumper cables.

It is less cost than a wireless unit. I don't like using it all the time but love it when there is a safety issue.

 

[picturevalve]

XTRXTR :
"There was no ground. That switch you talk about may have been called a ground switch but that is a misnomer. With only a line and neutral power cord the cap is between line and neutral if flipped to the line side. Neutral is chassis. Depending on which specific Fender layout the cap is bypassing the fuse."

I only used "ground switch" as that's what everyone calls it, I agree it's a misnomer - should be "chassis switch".
The cap. is connected via the switch between chassis and either line or neutral.
Which Fender amps have the chassis connected direct to neutral, btw?

 

[lespaul339]

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That is absolutely shocking.....

 

[Norfolk Martin]

Without starting one of those endless Internet discussions, it's not the voltage that kills you. Very, very condensed version is that it's the amps, though ~15mA in a worst case can stop your heart. The chance of this happening is extremely low because it requires that current traveling through your heart, hitting the heart at the right (or wrong, eh) moment, quite a few other factors

That is quite true from a medical standpoint , although, of court the higher the voltage, the higher the current for a given body resistance. But it is the current flow that disrupts the body's electrical signals, particularly the heart

I was also taught that the 'arm to arm across the heart " path is the most dangerous. Unfortunately it is also common for guitarists who end up with live strings. They often have one hand on the strings and touch a ground with the other .

Someone mentioned EMG's which are great because they don't require a string ground to stay quiet .

 

[picturevalve]

The latest mains socket testers as well as verifying correct socket wiring (28 different fault conditions) also incorporate an rcd test and non-trip earh loop impedance test. Around £55 per unit over here.

 

[PelliX]

I was also taught that the 'arm to arm across the heart " path is the most dangerous. Unfortunately it is also common for guitarists who end up with live strings. They often have one hand on the strings and touch a ground with the other .

Yes, I was told the same back in the day. Arm to [anything, especially on the other side of your body] is going to be nasty, arm to arm being the most common when working on stuff on a bench for example. I don't quite see how this would be common for guitarists, though. You need two hands to play (yeah, open tuning and single open strings, etc, sure...) but I would expect arm to mouth (mic) being the most common. I've never actually had that one, myself.

There are two types of circuits; live circuits and those that you didn't expect to be live. There may also be a third type, but it's probably just the result of mistaking the first type for the second one...

The latest mains socket testers as well as verifying correct socket wiring (28 different fault conditions) also incorporate an rcd test and non-trip earh loop impedance test. Around £55 per unit over here.

Absolutely agree. But then you encounter some numbnuts who used too low insulation rating flex for something (that one got me by surprise).

Upon reflecting on my earlier comment, I was wrong. The differential between two circuits (air conditioning and server rack) was actually #2 on my list of nasty shocks. The single most 'yucky' feeling one was the spark plug on a little 50cc moped. I was used to Vespas which had insulated spark plug caps. My buddy didn't have a working 'off' switch on his Tomos, so he was trying to block the exhaust with his shoe. "Oh, c'mon", I said, "Let me show you the easy way", and I pulled off the spark plug cap. It was at that moment that I learned that not all manufacturers actually use insulated caps... I did pull it off (in both senses) and I didn't indicate that I got shocked, but he gave me a look that implied he knew what had just happened...

The full bang from a CRT television wasn't actually all that painful, but it left my arm tingling a little for a good few minutes. I had the set on the bench form the day before when it was completely discharged. I was going to resume work on it and show a friend what it looked like inside. Before doing so I grabbed a coffee, went to the toilet, etc. Upon pulling the HV out I got the zap. This is when my friend helpfully leaned over and told me "it still doesn't work, I just tested it while you were downstairs...". We're still friends, for the record.

 

[DaDoc]

Wow that sucks, I remember playing barefoot at my buddies patio, with an old borrowed fender amp, if you were without shoes and stepped off the rug to concrete you would get a zap, some if you tried to sing with our Jerryrigged PA another old amp.
Boy those were the days alright.


Mitch

Yeah, I had a friend I used to jam with, and I couldn't sing into his P.A. because I would get shocked every time I touched his mics..I tried using ground lift plugs on my amp, still didn't help. I finally started carrying foam windscreens to use on his mics.

Does Brazil have 110 or 220 volt standards? 110 hurts, and can be lethal under certain circumstances, but 220 will kill a person in short order..I've never understood why they insist on having those 220 volt standards overseas..Crazy.

In any case, too bad for the poor guy..Sorry to hear.

 

[zachman]

The reason EVERY gigging player should have a Ground fault tester in their bag of stuff

 

[DaDoc]

Another prevention method is to use a hum eliminator such the Ebtech but there are many others. This goes between your guitar and the amp, uses small 1:1 isolation transformer between your signal from the guitar to the amp. With it you are electrically isolated from you amp. I keep it in my rig at the ready when needed, along with the outlet tester and the rebar and jumper cables.

It is less cost than a wireless unit. I don't like using it all the time but love it when there is a safety issue.

I use Lehles..They ain't cheap, but they're good insurance as well as good at suppressing hum.