How do I make a DSL40CR have a more Vintage AC/DC tone?

[SuperFleeky]

I've got a DSL and am missing that kind of vintage mid-range, low gain growl that is so clear in the beginning of AC/DC's TNT. I A/B'd my DSL next to my buddies TSL100 JCM 2000 with 4 different guitars trying to find a bit of that tight, midrange vintage tone. His Super Lead (in crunch) had that sorta vintage mid-range tone that comes up and then tapers off when you hit those chords with just a bit of gain. I was struggling to get the DSL to do a bit of that vintage sound (within reason, I know this isn't a 3000$ vintage amp. I'm guessing that it's just not designed for that but it be a jack-of-all trades having a more modern tone (than AC/DC at least)...which it does in SPADES. I was mashing Metallica tones SO well of course (at least to my ears).

Nevertheless, is there a way to get a bit of that Vintage Marshall low-gain tone? Speaker change? Tubes? I REALLY like that the amp is versatile enough to play more modern stuff as I do a lot of that as well and the clean is really really nice! Just curious if there were some secrets to changing things.


BTW I watched this video walkthrough from AC/DC's sound tech as he walked through all of their stage setup. They tour with 63 different Super Lead 100's (some/all have MV's I think), EQ is presence 1, bass/mid/treble all at 3, channel volume dimed, master volume at like a 5 lol. Stage settings are so different. Biased hot as hell and blowing tubes constantly. Massssive high tech battery source from japan to dial perfect voltages and insane auto-switching wireless systems. Angus has like 12 full stacks across the stage so he can run around and yet still hear himself lol. Pretty cool stuff!

Rig-Rundown: AC/DC

Having been an owner of both a DSL 40 and current owner of more vintage Marshalls (2203, 1987) no simple component swap, speaker/cab, or tube change is going to get that very articulate, dynamic vintage crunch out of a DSL. However, there are some great tones to be had when I maxed out the master volume and used the gain as my level control. If I needed a bit more grit, I'd push it with a Morning Glory ( or any other blues breaker style overdrive). That's about as classic as it can sound.

 

[december]

Yeah, try a different speaker, Greenback or Creamback. But a parametric EQ in the loop is the best way to shape the tone into almost anything you want. You can get a 3 band parametric pedal for like $375, but you can also find used 5-7 band rack units for less than that. I have a 2 channel 5 band with the output of channel 1 going into channel 2, making it a 10 band.

 

[Sg-ocaster]

Also watch how high you set the presense, that'll make it harsh too.

 

[Moony]

Maybe it's also worth checking the bias.
If it's running way too hot you'll get a woofy sound too.

I wouldn't go with a Greenback in the DSL40C/CR - just to be on the safe side if someone plays with it and cranks it.
Maybe buy a WGS Invader instead - that handles 50W.

 

[svinyard]

Maybe it's also worth checking the bias.
If it's running way too hot you'll get a woofy sound too.

I wouldn't go with a Greenback in the DSL40C/CR - just to be on the safe side if someone plays with it and cranks it.
Maybe buy a WGS Invader instead - that handles 50W.

I’m biased at 35. It gets rougher at 38. Down to 31 and it’s not very warm but more controlled. I think 32 or 33 would help. Testing a bunch of stuff like that this week to see where I can go with it.

I wish some smart electrical guy had some JCM mod for the OD2 red Channel!

 

[Moony]

I wish some smart electrical guy had some JCM mod for the OD2 red Channel!

I've already suggested some things you could do to the DSL40CR here.

There's only one triode of the first preamp tube (V1b) which is switched in when using the Ultra Gain channel.
So most changes affect both channels.

You could lower C76 from 4n7 to 2n2 - maybe that helps a tiny bit to make the low end clearer (and it does only affect the Ultra Gain channel).
Besides that as I've suggested swap C75 from 1n5 (stock) to 470p for less aggressive high mids (470p is the classic Marshall value there).

You could also try to reduce gain in the Ultra Channel by using a higher value cathode resistor at V1b.
Stock R96 is 1k8 - maybe try a 2k2 (or even the classic 2k7 though that may be too much in this circuit and it messes up the Lead1/Lead2 switching).
I personally would leave the stock 1k8 as it is.

 

[TonalEuphoria]

And when you buy a WGS Invader, in my opinion not only are you getting a higher quality made speaker, but one definitely not made in China.

 

[Sg-ocaster]

Yes I also suggested V1B cathode swap(2.7K is what I used) and bright cap to 180pF
C76 as Moony suggests may also help a bit too.
Serious though play with those knobs even the unused channel
May also try lifting a leg on C73.....I ommited it when I converted my 15 to OD1

 

[Moony]

Another tip:
I wouldn't do all of these mods completely in one row, but rather one at a time and then listen to each one to see if you like it or not.
Then you also know which mod causes exactly which change soundwise.

 

[svinyard]

So. I went back and just rechecked everything including my guitars.

A couple of things. My stratocaster was borked up. I reset the truss rod, tuned, intonated etc etc and now that bass is in much better. Some pickup adjustments helped out a lot too.

Yeah the bass is fairly boomy at times but now that I've sorted more of the guitar side...I'm able to control the bass with the knobs. Boy do the knobs change things. Small adjustments make or break things.

I swapped in a creamback neo and did some back and forth between the V-type and it. It's not massive shift...the V-Type isn't so bad and does have some rock n roll to it without going over the top. I'm trying out a normal creamback (non-neo) as that has more of the mids I'm looking for. We'll see if it hits the magic spot.

I'm using more of the Ultra gain channel now too (it's got a cool voice!) and taming the gain. Also using the neck pickup (with a bit more gain) and it definitely adds in some missing warmth. Its not the same crunch as my humbucker but very cool tone.

So...I'm getting along a LOT better with the amp now that I've gotten an education (from all of you and the amp). Thanks to everyone. Fun stuff.

 

[thesunship]

I like the "ultra" green best, especially with lower gain settings. With the classic clean and the ultra green, you can balance them easily and the eq seems to fit those two channels without much adjustment, if any. I don't really use the other channels

 

[Moony]

I swapped in a creamback neo and did some back and forth between the V-type and it. It's not massive shift...the V-Type isn't so bad and does have some rock n roll to it without going over the top. I'm trying out a normal creamback (non-neo) as that has more of the mids I'm looking for. We'll see if it hits the magic spot.

I personally think the Creamback 65 sounds better than the Neo - not a big fan of the Creamback 75.
I wouldn't use a Neodym speaker in a 1x12 cab or combo as I don't see a real benefit here. You trade off sound for a little less weight - that does make more sense if we're talking about a 4x12.
Or if you need a real high wattage speaker like the Neo Copperback so you can run a small 1x12 cab with you big amps.

Of course in the end it's all a matter of taste.

In my main Marshall JVM215C I'm running a WGS ET65-H which was a predecessor of the ET-90 and built for Two Rock and Hook. The WGS Invader worked fine there too.

 

[Mrmadd]

CREAMBACK 16 OHMS WILL DO WELL!

OR

PLUG THE AMP INTO A 4X12 CAB.

 

[Mrmadd]

I use both a cab and the creamback mounted in the combo amp.
I also blocked the speaker port in the back to force more sound out the front.

Nice tone but not quite vintage.

Try the softer tube in v2. May be too soft.
Not sure I like it that way. Not enough grit.

 

[Mrmadd]

The CREAMBACK has made an amazing difference in the tone of the DSL40

 

[Mrmadd]

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Mrmadd]

Somoone suggested a parametric eq.
That will help, but be careful as it may color your tone too muc.

Seems to me you need to induce a high end spike with that eq to get that snarly tone found in a vintage Marshall.
Can't help with the exact frequencies, I don't know. It is a very narrow frequency spike.
If it were too wide, it would sound aweful.

 

[svinyard]

Problem Solved!

A dude on youtube has a bunch different vintage Marshalls, but he was also mod'ing an Origin circuit 2203 and tweaking it to get a very close AC/DC tone. (Apparently the hotrod JCM800 Headfirst wasn't close enough). Since he was focused on that classic rock tone I love so much, and has the OG amps that do it...I asked him if there was something in the DSL40CR that changes it to be a more AC/DC friendly.

He was like, man it does it already. Just go to the pure clean channel, crank the gain, crank both volumes (hi-fi ear plugs needed) and dial your EQ sound. He mentioned to really get a hard pick and dig those strings as its a big part of that dynamic growl they get.

I threw some earplugs in, cranked both channel and masters (can kind of tune your sound actually with the volumes). All with the stock V-Type speaker. Stratocaster HSS on the stock Alnico humbucker. Treble 7, Mids 8, Bass 1 or 2, Resonance 0, Presence 2, Full Clean Channel...gain at 10. IT WAS FREAKING AWESOME AC/DC TONE!! The intro solo to Shook me all night...TNT (tough to nail the low-mid growl of Malcoms..it's not perfect but I don't have that country guitar or Super Bass), Back in Black. It was bad ass!!! And loud AF. The master volume was dimed and the channel was like at 7. Proper AC/DC levels.

I'm sure I could go crunch on that channel for heavier gain 80's...tho no clue if it holds the tone! It sounded freaking great! When I hit those first notes to Shook Me All Night...it knew it. It has that same "feel". You can't fake that BS right there. It's two notes with the vibrato.

I'll have the regular Creamback this weekend and give that a try. So far...super dope!

 

[Sg-ocaster]

Another tip:
I wouldn't do all of these mods completely in one row, but rather one at a time and then listen to each one to see if you like it or not.
Then you also know which mod causes exactly which change soundwise.

Yes +1 listen to each change as you go so you know what each component is doing to the tone.

 

[nkd]

Amp placement in a room has an influence on bass due to boundary interference, this can both boost bass and reduce in different places in the room due to phase at various frequencies. Also raising the amp off the floor and placing it away from the rooms corners can help reduce bass.