In search of authentic plexi tones at practical volumes and setups

[johan.b]

This thread is getting stupid.

... for years people complained that their super lead was too loud and attenuators colour the sound too much.."
" why can't marshall build a small plexi?... why oh why...I can't turn it up without knocking small vocalists over and off the stage and my bandmates hate me...I would buy a 20watt plexi in a heartbeat"

Then they did...

".. oh.. its not as loud as the big one... its not knocking anything over...pity...I might have bought one...."

... really?..... it not being as loud is the whole point...
Now go stand in the corner and contemplate your stupidity... all of you.
J

 

[Derrick111]

Well, sound pressure levels are a matter of public health. Prevents knuckleheads from damaging your hearing just because they think it's a good idea to blast sound way beyond sensible levels. And yeah, they enforce these laws. As a house engineer, it also gives me the tools to have some control over stupid engineers that rely on sheer SPL instead of being able to actually mix stuff. Plus the newer regulations setting the max levels in dBC instead of dBA have the added benefit of controlling the over-reliance on subwoofers. Hence better mixes. Win win.

I read this title and though, "Why do we keep seeing this dumb subject", then I read what you said and thought instead, "Welp, Europe is finally killing rock music". Sound pressure is part if the plexi sound and there is no way around it. It is also part of the rock experience. It doesn't have to melt your brain to be good, but wear damn ear plugs if it's too much for you (like I do sometimes). I guess we are now catering to the 'everybody wins an award' crowd now in rock venues over there?

 

[Buzzard]

This thread is getting stupid.

... for years people complained that their super lead was too loud and attenuators colour the sound too much.."
" why can't marshall build a small plexi?... why oh why...I can't turn it up without knocking small vocalists over and off the stage and my bandmaster hate me...I would buy a 20watt plexi in a heartbeat"

Then they did...

".. oh.. its not as loud as the big one... its not knocking anything over...pity...I might have bought one...."

... really?..... it not being as loud is the whole point...
Now go stand in the corner and contemplate your stupidity... all of you.
J

Lol. Thanks for saving me time typing. Seriously guitarists these days are some of the whiniest ,unappreciative ,entitled d-bags I’ve ever seen.

 

[Point 2 Point]

The quick easy answer is SV20. The slightly harder question is how to make it work at a volume you can live with. Sounds good though.... I think part of the volume issue is the treble but of course that's what makes it a plexi. Get the volumes up to 7 or more and it's better. A bit better still with GT mullard replicas in there.

If you can get the High Treble volume up to 6-7 the overly treble response levels out.
Putting a Jan5751 in V1 allows you to run the preamp up that high smoothing out the treble bite but with less volume due to the lower gain of the 5751. This seems to drive the power tubes harder too.
Easy to try out.

 

[Buzzard]

Then you try and recommend a plexi with a master like a ppimv and that’s not good enough either to get the plexi “ experience “. These are the same guys that talk a big game but know three chords and can’t play a lick.

 

[WellBurnTheSky]

I read this title and though, "Why do we keep seeing this dumb subject", then I read what you said and thought instead, "Welp, Europe is finally killing rock music". Sound pressure is part if the plexi sound and there is no way around it. It is also part of the rock experience. It doesn't have to melt your brain to goo, but wear damn ear plugs if it's too much for you (like I do sometimes). I guess we are now catering to the 'everybody wins an award' crowd now in rock venues over there?

Not a matter of "everybody wins an award", more a matter of "can we actually be smart instead of actively being dumb on purpose". Killing rock music yeah right, BS.
The worst thing being, in the world of actual real full-time musicians, NOT having to be stupid loud isn't even a discussion. When your hearing is how you're making a living, you protect it.
And this kind of posts reinforces WHY THESE REGULATIONS EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

@johan.b THANK YOU !!! This, many times this.

 

[Buzzard]

I used to see hear these idiots on the Les Paul forums buy a $7500 jimmy page Les Paul custom shop send it to some guy in Germany to frkin dismantle it totally , even take off the maple cap. Replace cap , refinish in “ more bettered” nitro pickups , plastics yada yada and STILL can’t play beyond beginners level .

 

[Buzzard]

Rant over. Just learn how to frkin play.

 

[juniorhifikit]

Well, this thread has probably run its course, but I too have been on the same search. I built a 10 Watt clone of my 1972 Super Bass. I got super nerdy about it with a test probe and a scope, countless listening tests, transformer swaps, tube swaps... This is as close as I can get:



It has the same tone (to me) but the low end oomph is not quite there. I use it to jam with friends, and it's cool, but part of that punch that I'm missing is just pure raw SPL.

I've also had the pleasure of testing amps in a sort of "laboratory" setting with a total rocket-science attenuator. We took the same Marshall and played it at 4 different attenuations and recorded the results with a Shure 57. Once level matched, there was no difference in the recorded tone, but the experience in the room was WAY different. It's a psychological/psychoacoustic thing - loud feels loud.

 

[tallcoolone]

You can absolutely unequivocally tell the difference in size and girth of the tone when recorded. There are some great examples on YouTube of this. The SV20 into a Fryette Power Station 100 can be very close though but with combined cost you may as well buy the full size superlead.

Where are you playing a SL without an attenuator?

 

[obx351]

It's an easy problem to "fix" if you throw money at it. But I think you can get what you want, JTM 45 style sound with the big sound of a 4x12. There are some lower cost boutique amp guys out there that specialize in these amps. Depending on the tube wattage put an attenuator on it or PPIMV to drop the dBs. You can get used speakers and find an open back cab, that will add sound dimension, to hook up to it. The trick I use with my 1x12 combo is to put it up on a table, something with a hard surface, to get more sound out of it. I also have a 1x12 cab with a Celestion gold in it that I attach to my 1x12 combo to really liven up the sound. Additionally, I have a 2x12 open back with a Celestion classic and a blue in it. It's a great sounding cab. If you can find one, and they are out there if you look, get a Blackstar Artisan 15 or 30. I have the 15 and had my amp guy make a minor tweak it to make the first channel a 1974x. It's a FANTASTIC amp and I've seen them for sale for $400 to $800.

64 Jtm 45 Combo Marshall With Pulsonic Back

• obx351
• Oct 10, 2017

Grass Cloth Semi-open Back

• obx351
• Oct 9, 2017

R8 And Blackstar

• obx351
• Oct 9, 2017

 

[NotSure]

Where can I get a hurricane at box fan levels?

 

[juniorhifikit]

Where can I get a hurricane at box fan levels?

Spot-on.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Where can I get a hurricane at box fan levels?

Ha Ha, exactly. You can build a small scale model of the real thing, but it just won't be the same.

 

[Benny]

Fargen Mini Plex

I have a spare one if anybody is in a buying mood

 

[Benny]

Fargen Mini Plex

I have a spare one, really, for sale.

 

[soul_schizm]

There's no replacement for the power of an opened up amp, but I do use a Fryette Power Station 2 to bring things down a little bit, when necessary. There are a lot of options on it to try to compensate for tonal differences that inevitably happen when you sink out some of that power. When I bring it down too low, there's no longer a way to compensate for it. But it's the best thing I've found. It's pricey though.

 

[Dean Swindell]

Geez this whole "bedroom amp" thing has gone off the rails. When did guitar player become such a bunch of rule followers, slaving to these conventional "wisdoms" that are purely theoretical? You know what my bedroom amp was in '83? A Marshall Major with Blackmore mods on a Carvin 4x12. The secret? I turned it down and friggin lived with it. Yes it sounded better moving some air but it sounded better than my Yamaha which was my former gig amp or my Gallion Kreuger 120watt, both great amps. And yes I had a Princeton (whoopie, big friggin' deal) and a Blues Junior, guitardom's most loved turd. Also for "bedroom amps" I've had Showman, Twin, 2204, Vintage modern 100 (actually about 68 or 70 watts), AC30 & 15 and now a 45 watt Dr. Z. Small amps are all great and groovy but they don't sound better. Look at it this way - turning a big amp down takes something away, using a small amp takes something away. But you can always turn the big amp up. A small amp will always sound like what it is.

 

[Benny2112]

All this talk of the SV20 not having as much "punch" and "low end thump" as a 100w plexi is getting a little ridiculous. There's even a post in another thread calling them "cute" and "a toy". I'm sorry, but you're just not going to get the exact same feel/punch/low end thump from a 20w amp, as you will with a 100w amp.

The SV20 was not meant to have as much "punch" and "low end thump" as a 100w plexi. It was meant as a smaller, lower power option to get plexi tones. I have been extremely happy with mine and do not feel like I am really missing anything. Does my SV20H and 2x12 cab have as much punch and low end thump as a 100w plexi and 4x12 cab? Of course not. But if you are a gigging guitarist, unless you are playing large or outdoor venues, the stage volume needed to get your punch and low end thump from your 100w plexi and 4x12 cab are not practical at all in today's smaller venues.

 

[johan.b]

I read this title and though, "Why do we keep seeing this dumb subject", then I read what you said and thought instead, "Welp, Europe is finally killing rock music". Sound pressure is part if the plexi sound and there is no way around it. It is also part of the rock experience. It doesn't have to melt your brain to goo, but wear damn ear plugs if it's too much for you (like I do sometimes). I guess we are now catering to the 'everybody wins an award' crowd now in rock venues over there?

Playing a100watt plexi unattenuated in a small room/bar, might be fine when you're 20, play in a punkband in front of your friends and noone gives a fuxx. But when you try to attract a crowd who never heard of you, who thinks live music should sound like the record, you need to sound good as a band...I love a100watter and two side by side 4x12 as much as the next guy, but unless is a stadium stage, that's a dinosaur. A remnant of the past... try it in any decent size bar and once your friends stop showing up, you'll be playing for empty floors... those of us here, at 45-plus and still gigging, have all been there and learned, Or we wouldn't get any more gigs. No bar owner wants a band that doesnt attract a crowd. Saying "fuxx off if you don't like it" is a sure way never getting return gigs...