JCM 800 vs. JCM 2000 DSL?

[spaceforlease]

I think you meant to say to have the hotplate between the head and the cab right?

i honestly didnt know that
never had one

 

[steelhorse]

Yeah I think it's pretty straightforward but when I read "and im planning on having a hotplate in front of it" I was uh-oh.

 

[RiverRatt]

Just had another note to add about the Tung-Sol RI's. I was trying different tubes in V3 on my DSL50, and the Tung-Sol won't go in easily with the rubber ring around the socket. When I pulled the tube back out, the ring came with it. They must be a little bit wider than others. That's the only tube I've ever had that happen with. Add that to the list of reasons why chassis-mounted tube sockets are better.

 

[spaceforlease]

Hi spaceforlease,

The early JCM800 2203 and 2204, with their gigantic Drake transformers and simple circuit are capable of producing unmistakable, sparkling Marshall crunch. The vertical input models are sought after and draw a premium price because the pots are mounted on the chassis, rather than the PC board. This makes the PCB easily accessible for changing resistors and capacitors to customize gain and tone. Expect to pay around $1000.00 for one that's unmodded and in good condition.

Let us know how you make out.

u mean the reissue doesnt have the same build? how bout the price of the reissue vs. the original?
u know how much a dsl 100 would sell for?

yeah... im definitely gonna go for an 800 -- but first... an ibanez!!

 

[spaceforlease]

the 2205 or the 2210's tone doesnt differ from the 2203/2204 right?

 

[bigragu63]

u mean the reissue doesnt have the same build? how bout the price of the reissue vs. the original?

From what I've heard and read, the RI's are a faithfull reproduction. Now, obviously they don't have Drake transformers, because they're no longer made. While the circuit may be as faithfull as possible, there must also be other components that were used in the originals that are no longer made, or not made exactly the same way as they were 25 years ago. So they can be very close, but not identical. Again, I can't say how much of a difference in tone there is between an original and a RI until I take the RI for a test drive.

If you're patient, you might find a used 2203 RI on the bay, for around $1500.00. For a new one, you're looking at over $2000.00.

I don't know about the tone difference of a 2205 or 2210, since I've never played one of those.

To get an idea of what you can expect to get from selling your amp, do a search on ebay for completed listings only, to see what DSL100's have been selling for.

 

[mmorse]

The 2205/2210 are different beasts than the 2204/2203s. They are quasi channel switchers. The 2204/2203s are single channel. The 2550/2553/Jubilee's are different again and employ clipping diodes. They were Marshall's idea of incorporating a SS Distortion pedal into an 800. Some people love them, and some people hate them.

I have an '83 2204, have played several JMP 2204s and I had a 2550. Trust me when I say that JCM 800 MV's can be just as brite and harsh as your DSL. That's always been a rap against them. But they can be tamed with a couple of easy mods.

As far as the vertical/horizontal input thing goes, there is no tonal difference with 2204s but there is with 2203s. The vertical input 2203s had 6 filter caps and a beefier tone. To save money, Marshall cut the number to 5 briefly and then to 3. Most people say the 3 cap versions (horizontal input) sound brighter and thinner compared to the 6 cap versions. The 2204s have 3 caps in both input versions.

IMO, to get the 80s hairband type tone at sane volumes, the late JMP MV's are the way to go. They sound a little fuller and have a touch less gain than the 800s even though the early 800s are the same amp with different cosmetics.

From the first MV JMPs in '76, Marshall gradually made the MVs brighter and gainier throughout the JCM800 years and into the JCM900s. They got further and further away from the NMV plexi and early 70s metal panel amps as far as tone goes. That's why those early amps go for so much money these days.

As far as a hotplate and an 800, depends on how much attenuation you use. If you just use a little, it can work. But since the 800s are MV amps (there are 800 NMV amps but are harder to find), you aren't really gaining much. I've been down both roads and ended up dumping my attenuator because it didn't offer anything over using the amp's master volume at the levels I play at. YMMV

My advice would be that before you run out and dump your DSL for an 800, check in to cabs and speakers. They can influence your tone to a degree that many players can't imagine. The speaker/cab interface can color tone in a profound manner. V30s, with their mid hump will accentuate any harshness and brightness in an amp. Specially if you stand in front of a 412 slant cab and the top 2 speakers are blasting right into your ears.

 

[steelhorse]

Wow, what a wealth of information! I hope it's ok but some of the info you and the other 800 users provide in such depth information that I copy and paste it into a document so I can refer to it if and when I ever get one.

 

[stock_hippie]

Trust me the DSL100 can get PLENTY loud!

I love my 900 also especially after the tube change.

Have fun gigging in the islands!

Brett...i just scoed...yesterday...2 Marshall 12"speaker cabs ,,,one speaker in each cab...and a 100 watt Gallien Krueger 1980's amp...never heard of the amp brand....but was verryyyy cheap...been using a Lead 12 for the last year....this is GoNNnna be coool!!
rock on BraH!!!!
aloHA to Da maXx!!roCk on DSL:!!

 

[steelhorse]

geev um da kine buddah!

 

[spaceforlease]

hey, thanks you guys for the advice -- for the time being, im just gonna replace the speakers with.... any suggestions? and replace the preamp tubes with a new set of ECC83.. hows that sound
gonna save the 800 for later... maybe in college (in berklee -- ow yea!) imma get it

 

[steelhorse]

What cab and speakers do you have now?

 

[spaceforlease]

the stock celestion speakers that comes with the 1960A

 

[steelhorse]

And you don't like those?

I have the same exact setup (I do happen to ABY with a JSX head) and in and of itself to me it sounds great.

What kind of guitars and pickups?

Any effects, EQ, attenuator?

I know there are better speakers so I'm anxious to hear what the suggestions might be.

I'm also interested as to what each speaker recommended might cost.

I've had all kinds of cabs and speakers and I've always had a tough time justifying that expense when what I have already sounds pretty darn decent.

 

[spaceforlease]

it doesnt necessarily i dont like them.. im just tryin to figure out where the harshness comes from.

my rig: kramer striker (with quadrails) --> wylde mxr --> dsl 100 --> 1960A cab
its as simple as that

if the V30's in fact enhance the treble (=harshness) it might not be for me then... despite all 80's guitarists use them (vai?, slash)
how bout the greenbacks?

im wondering... does worn out preamp tubes affect the harshness? coz i havent changed it yet.. currently.

 

[steelhorse]

I -had- a ZW-44

had

While some think those pedals work great I certainly don't need it for any of my amps. They have plenty of drive.

Purportedly they work well with an 800.

I'd definitely invest in a re-tube kit. Let Bob at Euro know what sound you're after and get a kit.

Of course how you bias them will affect the tonal characteristics another thing you'll want to discuss but he recommends between 80 and 90mv and says 90 is quite high.

 

[KTLucy]

If I were you, I would try playing through one with all your gear before you buy it. I like the tone from the 800, but as for overall gain, my DSL 100, is tons better. But it just depends what you want from the amp and what your sound preferences are. just my opinion.

 

[Landshark]

Im having the same experience with my TSL 100 Ive just retube it with new JJ E34Ls with ECC83s High gain with balance at v4 and its bright harsh and treblely at 80mV biased - tried 90 and sounds worse - Im thining switching to KT77s

with Mine I switched the ballanced pre to V1 and it helped out quite a bit. I have that exact retube kit in mine now.

 

[Landshark]

Im having the same experience with my TSL 100 Ive just retube it with new JJ E34Ls with ECC83s High gain with balance at v4 and its bright harsh and treblely at 80mV biased - tried 90 and sounds worse - Im thining switching to KT77s

Just throwing this out there, may have been covered but my cab (which was supposed to be 16 ohms and was actually 4) made my TSL sound really picky also.

 

[Richman1]

As to the original questions...
I played a JCM 800 in the eighties. It was wonderful...if you could crank it. I can get the same sound from my DSL at 2 that I could get from the JCM800 at 7.
I think cabinets do make a big difference. A 1960B sounds bigger than a 1960A for example even if they have the same standard speakers. There is more space inside the B cabinet to make sound. The same principle is applied to the tall vintage cabinets.

You are soooo right on here.. My JCM800 back in the 80's was the same way..it sounded killer on 7, but the guy at the board was ready to throw beers at me back then...The DSL50 paired up with the right cab...tubed and biased correctly is still loud, but sounds awesome at a little lower volume than the 800.. don't get me wrong, I love the 800's... The cab does make a huge difference.. I know because I have all three flavors...My fav for bigger venues is allways the 1960BV..