JVM 410H vs. DSL100

[Landshark]

JVM 410H is like satellite TV...lots of channels very few of them any good. Put a JCM1H on 0.1 mode into the return of the JVM's loop for best results.

@ Grunch....when you make it to 53 years old (in a very long time), you will not want a six button footswitch and a four channel three mode amp....trust me.

I'm 27 and I don't want that...

 

[Australian]

JVM 410H is like satellite TV...lots of channels very few of them any good. Put a JCM1H on 0.1 mode into the return of the JVM's loop for best results.

@ Grunch....when you make it to 53 years old (in a very long time), you will not want a six button footswitch and a four channel three mode amp....trust me.

You make it sound like its a struggle to get to 53.

 

[big dooley]

JVM 410H is like satellite TV...lots of channels very few of them any good.

i don't have satellite TV, but if it's as "bad" as the JVM as you say it is, i'm getting it immediatly...

 

[big dooley]

as the topic is already derailed enough, i'd like to put it back on it's track, by asking the OP what his expectations are from the DSL...

from what i've seen, he has his JVM410H for 4 years now, which says, that he's knows all the ins and outs of his beloved amplifier... what do you want to see from the DSL??? or are you intending to use it as a backup amp, or maybe even use it in a stereo-rig, like i'm doing with the JVM and AFD100?

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Ricky Lee - I tried out a JVM 205C 50 W head to possibly replace my TSL 122 the other day, I thought the crunch channel one red mode sounded great tonally, lots of punch at lower volumes - we usually play smaller watering holes to halls - but for the heavier stuff I like, it had not quite as much gain as my TSL on channel 2. Almost to the point where I would like to add OD pedal, seems ridiculous for a 2 channel, 6 mode amp. Then channel 2 green mode on the JVM lost all it's balls - no punch at all, had to go to orange mode on OD channel which is insane gain, loved it for that, but seems like I only really would have gotten use out of the channel 1 red sometimes and channel 2 orange which is over the top for the rest. I prefer my TSL tonally and distortion wise to the JVM, that's just my opinion. The clean sound was great on the JVM and again, tonally the red channel 1 sounded JCM 800 good but not quite enough gain for me. My 2c worth.

 

[RickyLee]

Ricky Lee - I tried out a JVM 205C 50 W head to possibly replace my TSL 122 the other day, I thought the crunch channel one red mode sounded great tonally, lots of punch at lower volumes - we usually play smaller watering holes to halls - but for the heavier stuff I like, it had not quite as much gain as my TSL on channel 2. Almost to the point where I would like to add OD pedal, seems ridiculous for a 2 channel, 6 mode amp. Then channel 2 green mode on the JVM lost all it's balls - no punch at all, had to go to orange mode on OD channel which is insane gain, loved it for that, but seems like I only really would have gotten use out of the channel 1 red sometimes and channel 2 orange which is over the top for the rest. I prefer my TSL tonally and distortion wise to the JVM, that's just my opinion. The clean sound was great on the JVM and again, tonally the red channel 1 sounded JCM 800 good but not quite enough gain for me. My 2c worth.

After last night at my buds jam, I am starting to think that some of the people that REALLY love their DSL amps might have one that is electronically close to this last DSL100 I picked up last weekend. Compared to my first DSL100 when it was stock, this one I played last night is a Freak. I have not figured out yet why they are so different from each other tonally.

I went from playing my TSL100 (quite a few tweaks and mods on it and NOS 12AX7's) then set up the all stock DSL100 (China 12AX7's) with the GT EL34M's that were in the TSL100. The singer in my band about had his eyes bug out as he was totally amazed at the sound of that DSL.

And then we can say the same thing about the JVM. Some of the people that are saying the JVM is so much better tonally than the DSL might have one of those tonally special JVM amps as well. It is a shame how sometimes you will run into an amp that just seems like something is not right with it, even though electronically it is functioning as it should be. But that is the reality of it, as not all guitar amps are created equal . . . .

 

[Adrian R]

After last night at my buds jam, I am starting to think that some of the people that REALLY love their DSL amps might have one that is electronically close to this last DSL100 I picked up last weekend. Compared to my first DSL100 when it was stock, this one I played last night is a Freak. I have not figured out yet why they are so different from each other tonally.

I went from playing my TSL100 (quite a few tweaks and mods on it and NOS 12AX7's) then set up the all stock DSL100 (China 12AX7's) with the GT EL34M's that were in the TSL100. The singer in my band about had his eyes bug out as he was totally amazed at the sound of that DSL.

And then we can say the same thing about the JVM. Some of the people that are saying the JVM is so much better tonally than the DSL might have one of those tonally special JVM amps as well. It is a shame how sometimes you will run into an amp that just seems like something is not right with it, even though electronically it is functioning as it should be. But that is the reality of it, as not all guitar amps are created equal . . . .

Yo R/L.. Both my DSLs sound nearly identical..only diff is the one with the aftermarket O/T in which just stays slightly tighter at stupid loud volumes. I love them both to death man...

 

[Ken]

You make it sound like its a struggle to get to 53.

I'm 53, but my wife says I'm still 19. In both the good and the bad way!

Ken

 

[Ken]

And then we can say the same thing about the JVM. Some of the people that are saying the JVM is so much better tonally than the DSL might have one of those tonally special JVM amps as well.

I go back and forth on the "tonally special" thing. On the one hand, I know my DSL sounds great and my 4100 sounded not so great, yet there are people who hate the DSL yet love the 4100. And I don't think (most) of these people are stupid or have no taste.

But I think weak or bad quality tubes and/or poor bias account for most of the variation. Anyone can play metal through a Mesa, and even a virtuoso won't have great tone through an 800, JVM or DSL that's way too hot and has crappy preamp tubes.

Yet I can't ignore that some amps seem to be "special" due to some mystical quality of all the tolerances of components adding up to sweet tone.

I'll call Adam and Jamie to do a show on Marshall variation but they might find the subject too arcane.

Ken

 

[SlyStrat]

I've owned both and never kept a DSL/TSL.
I just didn't like the gain tone. Sounded "fake"/buzzy.
I prefer the tone of a JVM410. And no pedals needed.
I've owned plenty of vintage Marshall amps.

 

[AbelsKeepeR]

when playing your DSL's are you guys engaging the half power switch, or do you run it in the full power mode? I haven't had the oppertunity yet to really crank my dsl, as my band broke up last year, after a 15 year run at it. Just wondering if like on my Bugera head, and combo, if the half power switch is engaged, it give the amp a "mellower" tone, than at full power. I haven't hit the full power switch on my dsl yet. Just wondering if there is a "sound" difference between the two modes other than "volume"?

 

[Rocktane]

when playing your DSL's are you guys engaging the half power switch, or do you run it in the full power mode? I haven't had the oppertunity yet to really crank my dsl, as my band broke up last year, after a 15 year run at it. Just wondering if like on my Bugera head, and combo, if the half power switch is engaged, it give the amp a "mellower" tone, than at full power. I haven't hit the full power switch on my dsl yet. Just wondering if there is a "sound" difference between the two modes other than "volume"?

I find the 100H more open/ less compressed when in full power mode. It sounds bigger and more articulate. My amp is on full power for everything at conversation levels and above. I don't dislike the 1/2 power mode, it has it's moments. BTW, I spend 95% of my time on ultra gain 1.

 

[Flat6]

I own a DSL50 and a 410H. I gig and use both - at first the JVM was the starter and the DSL as my backup. The JVM never failed.

I put a choke in the DSL and replaced the transformer. It made the amp sound much more to my liking - I use it sometimes now with the JVM as backup. Mostly green crunch and push it with pedals. The JVM is more versatile though.

Hope that helps

 

[Heritage Softail]

I need to put a choke in my DSL100. I also use the green crunchy goodness channel boosted or red 1.

 

[flashtilley]

This is just my opinion but I own the new DSL100H but have played a JVM210H and an older UK DSL100 and to be honest my new DSL sounds the best. It doesn't have all the options of a JVM but definitely has better tone.

 

[Dmann]

We were just auditioning a guy for a 2nd guitarist, he has an older JCM2000 DSL + 1960B cab and he plays through gibson's with duncans and uses a tube screamer plus a couple other pedals. I have a JVM210H + 1960BV cab and G-Major II and play through ESP's with EMG's.

We got talking about this thread actually, We decided to shoot out the lead tones and see how they compare. what we did was play a few covers (Crazy train, Barracuda, Man in the Box, The Trooper) and take turns doing the leads. He was totally arrogant thinking he was going to wipe the floor with his rig, as he is one of those guys that bought a JVM and returned it because it was "Thin and Harsh," and basically shit and multi effects rack units are shit.

Now just realize, this is a full Rig camparison. If anyone here is like me, you've probably spent a fair amount of time dialing in your tones, so the reality of it is, we are really comparing our knowledge to create the sound we want with our current gear.

Now, on to the details, and remeber this is a compare of the SOLO's and LEAD FILLS.

While his DSL sounded awesome, he had a hard time cutting through without turning WAY UP, and the louder it got the muddier it got and just ended up drowning out the entire mix. The distortion was very top end fizzy and sizzling. also because he had to turn it up so much, he started getting uncontrollable feedback in between stacato's and pauses and even on the trails of his vibrato. Think Ace Frehley (Kiss) meets Billy Duffy (the Cult)

When I took my turn, I fit the mix like a glove. My distortion is very smooth and sounds scooped but isn't at the same time, if that makes sense and I have it dialed in so tight, it's hard to explain. I cut through with ease. I can still achieve feedback, but I can totally control it. You could hear me perfectly but I was not dominating the mix or overpowering anyone. Think Alex Skolnik (Testament) meets Kerry King (Slayer).

The differences between our rigs were like night and day and each has thier own + and - but here is the main difference; when we played each song, I used different tone stacks and channels and effects programs via midi switching and I actually sounded like song I was playing, while he ALWAYS sounded the same.

At the end of the night, he told me he had a new appreciation for the JVM, but I had to stress it wasn't just the JVM, but my entire set up that got me where I wanted, the key was knowing how to dial it in for each tone I was seeking and really just spending the time. I also thanked him for allowing me to see what his rig could do, and hearing the DSL.

SO not saying either are better, but for my current project (Classic Metal and Hard Rock Cover Band) I believe the JVM210H + G-Major II is a winning combination.

 

[solarburn]

It was the EMG's. Quiet high gain pups don't make excessive noise at volume like his were having issues with.

You fucking cheater!


I keed!

Your rig whooped his ass. Sounds like you know what you're doing when setting gear up. Bet you could set a DSL up and beat ass on a JVM then.

 

[Iwanarock]

JVM 410H owner here since it first came out and i still love my JVM and the versatility it provides. I must say the midi capability of the JVM is fantastic and something that i use to take full advantage of everything the JVM can do. The only other head I like nearly as much as the JVM (and still may pick one up) is the EVH 5150 III which comes real close in terms on flexibility and the tonal variety. I think a DSL would be well worth a picking up at the right price as a backup head or even to use as primary depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[Adrian R]

We were just auditioning a guy for a 2nd guitarist, he has an older JCM2000 DSL + 1960B cab and he plays through gibson's with duncans and uses a tube screamer plus a couple other pedals. I have a JVM210H + 1960BV cab and G-Major II and play through ESP's with EMG's.

We got talking about this thread actually, We decided to shoot out the lead tones and see how they compare. what we did was play a few covers (Crazy train, Barracuda, Man in the Box, The Trooper) and take turns doing the leads. He was totally arrogant thinking he was going to wipe the floor with his rig, as he is one of those guys that bought a JVM and returned it because it was "Thin and Harsh," and basically shit and multi effects rack units are shit.

Now just realize, this is a full Rig camparison. If anyone here is like me, you've probably spent a fair amount of time dialing in your tones, so the reality of it is, we are really comparing our knowledge to create the sound we want with our current gear.

Now, on to the details, and remeber this is a compare of the SOLO's and LEAD FILLS.

While his DSL sounded awesome, he had a hard time cutting through without turning WAY UP, and the louder it got the muddier it got and just ended up drowning out the entire mix. The distortion was very top end fizzy and sizzling. also because he had to turn it up so much, he started getting uncontrollable feedback in between stacato's and pauses and even on the trails of his vibrato. Think Ace Frehley (Kiss) meets Billy Duffy (the Cult)

When I took my turn, I fit the mix like a glove. My distortion is very smooth and sounds scooped but isn't at the same time, if that makes sense and I have it dialed in so tight, it's hard to explain. I cut through with ease. I can still achieve feedback, but I can totally control it. You could hear me perfectly but I was not dominating the mix or overpowering anyone. Think Alex Skolnik (Testament) meets Kerry King (Slayer).

The differences between our rigs were like night and day and each has thier own + and - but here is the main difference; when we played each song, I used different tone stacks and channels and effects programs via midi switching and I actually sounded like song I was playing, while he ALWAYS sounded the same.

At the end of the night, he told me he had a new appreciation for the JVM, but I had to stress it wasn't just the JVM, but my entire set up that got me where I wanted, the key was knowing how to dial it in for each tone I was seeking and really just spending the time. I also thanked him for allowing me to see what his rig could do, and hearing the DSL.

SO not saying either are better, but for my current project (Classic Metal and Hard Rock Cover Band) I believe the JVM210H + G-Major II is a winning combination.

Bottom line, the dude didn't know what he was doing... I play similar music man..and I am not going to pretend to say that my tone would wipe the floor of anything other then the obvious..but I feel I simply cannot get a better tone period man! I have no problems at all with uncontrollable feedback, thin, or buzzy sounds..etc..my lead tone is simply over the freakin' top man! Check it out... This was BEFORE I I loaded V1 and 2 with black plated Raytheons..its WAY better now.

Marshall DSL100 live lead tone! - YouTube

 

[Dmann]

Bottom line, the dude didn't know what he was doing... I play similar music man..and I am not going to pretend to say that my tone would wipe the floor of anything other then the obvious..but I feel I simply cannot get a better tone period man! I have no problems at all with uncontrollable feedback, thin, or buzzy sounds..etc..my lead tone is simply over the freakin' top man! Check it out... This was BEFORE I I loaded V1 and 2 with black plated Raytheons..its WAY better now.

Marshall DSL100 live lead tone! - YouTube

I have no doubt, and actually my post reads like the guy sucked, but not at all, His sound was fantastic, and I am thinking back, it might have had more to do with my rhythm sound being too full and eating up the spectrum, while his let mine shine through better.

Either way, The point I was making is, you can't just compare the Heads alone. The sounds and tone come from a complete set up starting with your guitar and ending with your speakers, and it is more about using the tools you have to get the sound/tone you want. Add to that, I was able to show someone who thought the JVM and multi fx unit to be crap, that they are in fact great pieces of gear.

Also, If you really want to just compare the heads alone, That also means no tube screamer/boost in front of the DSL, which I notice it seems like everyone with a DSL uses. Should be same guitar, single cable into amp, single cable into speaker, and a modest attempt to dial in the same settings on both heads.... That's the only way to get a real compare.

Just to be clear, I was going to return my JVM210H until I paired it with the G-Major II, as the head on it's own didn't do it for me, but I came from using a complete rack setup so I am spoiled in that I feel incomplete if I can't program it and save it.