Marshall 4X12 with Hiwatt Fane Speakers 25 watt?

[jgab]

Hi,
I have a chance to get four Hiwatt Fane speakers. I don't know much about these speaker, and my online search isn't going great. I can get four of these for about $450 USD, or $530 USD installed in a Marshall 1960 A JCM 800 cab.

Any idea if these could be a good sub for my Celestion Blackbacks 1777. Anyone have experience with these? I might drive the two hours to try it out with my 2204 head.




Any feedback/advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks
JGAb

 

[Dogs of Doom]

why swap blackbacks for them?

The cab, on it's own, for $500 w/ the Fanes might be a good enough deal to get on it's own, but, I'm not so sure in buying to get rid of your blackbacks...

You can get a current Fane speaker from Avatar for around $100

https://avatarspeakers.com/product-category/speakers/fane/

 

[jgab]

I guess I should have just asked how they might compare to the Blackbacks. Who knows what I will do yet. They have to be pretty magical for me to replace my Blackbacks.

 

[jgab]

Looks like these are from 1977 according to a pic I zoomed into.

 

[houseofrock]

I have no experience with Fane speakers but from everything I've read they are great speakers.
I think it would worth the drive just to try them out for yourself. Think of it as an adventure. Do you remember
Jason and the Argonaunts? How far did he travel just to acquire the Golden Fleese?

 

[jgab]

Yeah I will try them out. The cabinet looks like it's in awesome condition for a 800. I might just get it for the cab. It's nicer than my 800 cab. Obviously could just sell the speakers if they don't sound as good as the Blackbacks.

 

[Kelia]

Love Hiwatt speakers , had four cabs with those and they sounded Glorious !!

 

[scozz]

Love Hiwatt speakers , had four cabs with those and they sounded Glorious !!

Great job buddy!

Yeah those Dr103 are killer Hiwatt amps, love the crunch tone. This clip sounded very Marshalleque, thick and cutting.

I had read somewhere that Gilmour always has at least 3 Dr103s at every show, I’m a huge Pink Floyd and David Gilmour fan.

 

[jgab]

That clip sounds awesome! Great job. Excited to try these speakers. Apparently they might have Pulsonic cones which would be pretty neat.

 

[Kelia]

Great job buddy!

Yeah those Dr103 are killer Hiwatt amps, love the crunch tone. This clip sounded very Marshalleque, thick and cutting.

I had read somewhere that Gilmour always has at least 3 Dr103s at every show, I’m a huge Pink Floyd and David Gilmour fan.

Thanks but that wasn't me ! just a clip really like .

 

[scozz]

Thanks but that wasn't me ! just a clip really like .

 

[Georgiatec]

That clip sounds awesome! Great job. Excited to try these speakers. Apparently they might have Pulsonic cones which would be pretty neat.

Just buy it. So long as the speakers are in good nick, that cab will sound fantastic.

It's only money.

 

[neikeel]

I have no experience with those exact speakers (later pressed frame - which comes in ‘77?)
The ones I have had worked really well with my Hiwatts and Oranges, very different flavour to the Celestions. I only traded them for a set of 70s G12H30 55Hz greenbacks which I could not pass up! Slightly regret it as they did have something special about them but mine were 22w rating each and I was always worried about frying them (I am advised that the commonest problem with old Fanes is coil rub).

 

[jgab]

Hi. I ended up purchasing the cabinet. I really love the tone. Clear with lot of harmonic sparkle to them.

I think they have Pulsonic cones? The last three numbers are 003. These cones are in mint condition with no coil rub at all.

The guy I purchased them from was 65 years old. He seems to have taken very good care of them.

Can anyone confirm how many watts these speakers are?

 

[BygoneTones]

They are unlikley to be pulsonic cones if they were made after 1973, most likely Kurt Mueller. Although the ink stamps look the same.

Firstly '1777' and '444' are Celestion part numbers. So do not expect to find them on other speaker brands that have Kurt Mueller cones unless they have been reconed with a cone designed for a Celestion.

Secondly, from what I understand Pulsonic "became" Kurt Mueller. They are effectively the same company / factory. So after the fire, and they stopped using the pulsonic pulp, they would still have carried on using their own part numbering system on speakers such as Fanes.

Maybe not 100% accurate but that is my understanding of it anyway. Certainly if you compare a pre-1973 Fane to "the same" speaker made in the late 70's you should hear a difference.

 

[jgab]

I just took some better pics of the dates on the cones and frame.

I noticed these cones have very raised ribs. More raised than my 77' Celestion Blackbacks with Mueller cones. These also appear to have a wider coil and magnet compared to the Blackbacks.

 

[shakti]

Bygonetones will know more about the cones, but I can tell you those are 122232 model Fane speakers. They were made exclusively for Hiwatt and were rated 50W. The magnet is 14000 Gauss. In the Fane world, they can be compared, sort of, to the T1221 Celestion, in that they both have a medium size magnet and are sort of mid focused. That’s where the similarities end though.

The 122231 was the stock speaker in Hiwatt SE4123 cabs. Earlier ones have a cast frame.

 

[jgab]

Great thanks. I sent Hiwatt and Fane International some pics for some info.

The only question I have left is confirming the cone. Some people I have emailed say the cones are Pulsonic, but Bygone seems to think not, and he has a valid point being the Pulsonic factory burnt down before these 1977 speakers were made.

I have seen online ads where sellers are claiming their 1976 and 1977 122231 Fanes have Pulsonic cones, and they look just like mine with the same codes. Maybe Fane kept a massive stock of Pulsonic cones to last 3-4 years? Maybe these cones are large rib/corrugated Muellers? However, if this was the case, the cone stamp wouldn't make sense.

Hopefully Hiwatt or Fane get back to me. Not like I will sell these either way. These are keepers and sound amazing.

 

[StingRay85]

I also have a pair of those. Great speakers. The cones cannot be compared to pulsonic cones on celestion speakers. The smoothness of the paper is unbelievable on a greenback, nothing comes close. I also have earlier Fanes from Sound City, they do have Pulsonic cones, but again very different from the ones used in greenbacks. I'm not saying the smoothness is a measurement of (sound) quality, but it is a feature of these cones.

Great buy though, those purple back Fanes on their own are worth more than you paid for the cab

 

[BygoneTones]

Great thanks. I sent Hiwatt and Fane International some pics for some info.

The only question I have left is confirming the cone. Some people I have emailed say the cones are Pulsonic, but Bygone seems to think not, and he has a valid point being the Pulsonic factory burnt down before these 1977 speakers were made.

I have seen online ads where sellers are claiming their 1976 and 1977 122231 Fanes have Pulsonic cones, and they look just like mine with the same codes. Maybe Fane kept a massive stock of Pulsonic cones to last 3-4 years? Maybe these cones are large rib/corrugated Muellers? However, if this was the case, the cone stamp wouldn't make sense.

Hopefully Hiwatt or Fane get back to me. Not like I will sell these either way. These are keepers and sound amazing.

Best advice I can give to people is just to use your ears. I know you probably can't get hold of one right now, but if you compared the same model speaker pre 1973 you would hear a difference.

Some sellers will write anything to make a sale, doesn't mean it is accurate. Sellers copy each other too, and things start to become 'fact' by repetition. A good example of this is the 7442 speakers. Apparently these have pulsonic cones according to most sellers thesedays.

Regarding pulsonic history, other people have researched this a lot more than me. I'm just going by what they have found out, and also going by what my own eyes and ears tell me when comparing speakers. Check Jim Elyea's vox book, and Duncan Boniface's old plexi palace forum posts if you can get hold of them.

Apparantely Kurt Mueller bought Pulsonic in 1970. So what that means is, for example, if you have a pre-rola Celestion made in 1971 and it has the '102 003' cone stamp on it, that is a Kurt Mueller part number. However it is still made from the same 'pulsonic' pulp, so people call it a pulsonic cone for simplicity / lack of knowledge about the actual factory / company history. If that makes sense. It's a Kurt Mueller cone, made from 'pulsonic pulp'.

Apparently there was a fire at the (Kurt Mueller) factory in late 73, but I think it's more likely only a part of the factory was affected, not that the whole place got burnt down. Duncan Boniface, ex Celestion employee, mentioned that the same tooling was used for a long time, from the 60's through to the 1990's. So clearly not everything got destroyed.

It makes sense to me that Kurt Mueller just carried on using their own part numbering system on Fane cones in the late 70's and early 80's even though the pulp was different, and that is why you have codes that look like the earlier pulsonic codes, but the paper itself does not look or sound like a pulsonic.

Hope that makes sense.

I've got an early 80's Fane here at the moment myself, cone stamp on it is '19'. Nice sounding speaker but it is definitely not a pulsonic.