Marshall's answer to the Badlander

[Matthews Guitars]

Actually the Badlander is getting great reviews and selling faster than they can make them. It's already a success and it's going to continue to be a success for a long time to come.

Mesa's greatest strength is twofold: A huge product line that covers the FULL range of sounds for all styles of playing, and a no compromises attitude toward build quality. They have never once deviated from their commitment to build a quality, roadworthy amp. They do not MAKE amps that are aimed at the beginner and his budget, with the
very cheapest amp in their product line starting around 1300 dollars base price and it's fully worthy of daily gigs and road usage. And their amp production is 100 percent
American made.

Marshall, on the other hand, is driven to cheapen its products to lower manufacturing costs whenever and wherever possible. Only a handful of their products, which are all
reissues of their classic models, are still made like they used to make them, which is roadworth, durable, and labor intensive. And costly. They outsource the production of
all their lower line models to such bizarre places as Vietnam. Marshall wants every kid who wants to play guitar to have a Marshall amp in his bedroom even if it's just a
10 watt practice amp with a Marshall badge on it. And I say that this is probably what they need to do because if it wasn't for the, let's say "mass market oriented" products they make, Marshall would probably be in serious financial trouble.

If you were to separate out Marshall's "professional grade" lineup and compare it to Mesa's professional grade product line, you'd find that Mesa has a lot more offerings to choose from.

The fact is that Mesa is focused on the practicing musician who will shell out a significant amount of money to get dependable performance, while Marshall is focused on selling to everybody at every price point.

So long as Mesa continues that tradition of dependability, quality, and a versatile product line, I think they'll continue to be a major player in the guitar amp market as long as there is a guitar amp market.

Marshall will continue to exist because they put their name on every product they can sell. Bluetooth speakers and headphones? Really? Well...they're profitable.

Of Marshall's current guitar amp product line, excluding reissues, none of them interest me. But I could shop around in the Mesa store and have to choose between several amps that appeal to me.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

The balance of power is shifting as far as professional quality amps goes , all the British ( made in England ) greats have pretty much gone . All the good stuff is now made in the U.S ( mainly Cali. as I understand ). If I had to buy a quality made in England amp I would be limited to Victory amps ( great amps mind ) can’t think of anyone else . Marshall currently have nothing that interests sadly. Correction I think Orange sill manufacture their top of the range amps in England , I would like to try the Rockerverb mk iii .

 

[Whizzinby]

I played a Badlander Combo last night at the local shop and wasn’t terribly impressed. The Triple Crown combo seems better by some margin, personally. Though to be fair to the Badlander, I don’t like most of Mesa’s combo offerings as a 1x12 just doesn’t put enough ass behind their amps.

 

[MarcOfWar]

..And make make sure to loosen your underwear, kiddo. I made sure to note from the get-go it was just my humble opinion.

I moved to Marshalls after playing my Boogie Mark IIIs for several years ( both of which I still own and quite adore for sentimental value).

On that note, GTFO with your fanboy attitude. You're a POS that doesn't belong here with the Marshall fam.

I wish you a mery christmast sweet pea. Get some rest, you look tired.

 

[ampeq]

Unfortunately Marshall have missed the boat by a country mile . Friedman, Suhr ,ceriatone , Wizard, EVH , Victory to name just a few have appeared on the scene and stolen the show by making what Marshall should have years ago .

Thats for sure, but even if they did make what they should be making it would cost way to much. I don't know if I would like the Badlander for it's tone or not, I would have to try it at home. But the amp itself is laid out beautifully, different power ratings, EL34 or 6L6's, Cab Clone w/ different cabs, load on amp even if speakers are not plugged in, headphone port, 3 voices per ch and 2 of the same ch., these guy's do make some nice stuff.

 

[Whizzinby]

I just listened to the demo of the Badlander and can say like any other Mesa I've heard, it's awful. It will fail in all business ways. Which leads to ....

Mesa is forced to continuously market themselves to stay alive. Their name and products become dated and are subject to renewal. Marshall has never had to do this. Marshall has never really once ever had to do anything but be ...Marshall.

Fender and VOX too, in fairness. Mesa? ...another flavor of the decade amp company that will always carry the weight of self renewal.

In fact, that's what Mesa is trying to do with the Badlands ....change to adapt. They are due too since they all look like Limp Biscuit '90s amps.

(maybe 3, but the glyphs are even.)

Flavor of the decade? Mesa has been in business for 50 years, and the Dual Rectifier has been around almost 30 years. (Almost all of that time as one of the most revered high gain amps out)

Granted Mesa basically copied (stole) the design of the Rectifier from Soldano, but to their credit Mesa has made other highly regarded high gain amps that weren’t SLO hacks. (Mark series, Triple Crown etc.)

 

[Ufoscorpion]

Listened to some Badlander demos ( Ola & Fluff namely ) , not my thing but I like the concept and simplicity.

 

[Maggot Brain]

The thing with Marshall and marketing and producing their amps at all price points I think is a result of their demographic. Sure you can view it as trying to sell an amp to every kid wanting to learn guitar BUT that's a product of their own greatness! Nearly everyone knows MARSHALL, you dont have to be a guitarist to know the name and the amps. Every kid starting out WANTS a Marshall amp and Marshall knows this and provides as necessary.

When I first started playing I knew Marshalls, I heard of Fender and I heard of Vox... I wanted a Marshall and I've been a fan ever since.

Now Mesa has it's market, while a major player in the amp world their corner is a little more niche and that allows them to produce and design amps that sit higher in the price range which = not outsourcing.

I owned a Dual Rec for a period... Nah wasn't my thing. I could not for the life of me bond with it. I have played a few of the Mark series and they were amazing amps. I would love to own one but I would NEVER replace my Marshall with one.


Believe it or not but Marshall IS the guitar amp.... If that makes sense.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

How many Mesa copies in boutique amp's?

How many Marshall?

 

[Matthews Guitars]

There aren't many companies copying Mesa for the simple reason that there's no economically viable model for doing that. To copy a Mesa and match their build quality,
you'd have to charge more than the Mesa costs and wouldn't have the brand reputation for reliability and support to match it. Why would I pay more for a copy than to just
buy the real thing?

Lots of people copy Marshalls because, for one thing, the classic Marshalls that built their reputation are fairly simple to build, parts costs are reasonable, the circuits are simple,
and they're great platforms to build modifications on. Mesa's PC board design doesn't lend itself to a lot of modifications.

Additionally, Marshall gets as much for a 1959SLP reissue as the price of a Friedman or a David Bray amp that'll smoke it faster than Bill Clinton smoking a joint. This makes the Friedman, Bray, etc. amps a real deal!

 

[Rockat]

Interesting thread! From the Uk I grew up with Vox AC30’s and Marshalls also a Fender Twin Reverb. All were awesome in the own way. But the bottom line is for me is the 2203 cuts it.
Maybe from my side of the pond Mesas just don’t sound the same and are not that popular over here. Somehow they don’t cut through when you need it! IMHO

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I think we realize that with digital modelling amps now becoming commonplace. and getting better with every passing year, the age of the Real Tube Amp must eventually draw to a close and the end of that age may be closer than some people think.

I recommend that you start stockpiling spare tubes. EVENTUALLY, enough manufacturers will drop tube amp production that there is no business case for continuing tube production.

But that does not mean that the end of "tube tone" is coming. Tubes can be digitally modelled, even tubes that have never been invented in the real world. As long as "tube tone" is valued, there will be ways to get it. Including new amplifiiers with new circuit topologies and different tones that haven't been explored before.

 

[Sustainium]

Ola’s tone on the badlander is my preferred sound, but I’m happy to get there with a pedal.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I would like to hear the Badlander played like you'd play a Plexi. Tuned to standard or no lower than D, and played old school.

I honestly can't get a handle on an amp's tone if it's played in drop tuning. I can only evaluate it in standard tuning or no lower than D.

Johan Segeborn did a demo of a Mesa Dual Rectifier doing plexi type tones. You would not expect that out of a Recto, but when played in standard tuning, it CAN sound rather Marshall-esque if you set it up right.

 

[Maggot Brain]

I would like to hear the Badlander played like you'd play a Plexi. Tuned to standard or no lower than D, and played old school.

I honestly can't get a handle on an amp's tone if it's played in drop tuning. I can only evaluate it in standard tuning or no lower than D.

Johan Segeborn did a demo of a Mesa Dual Rectifier doing plexi type tones. You would not expect that out of a Recto, but when played in standard tuning, it CAN sound rather Marshall-esque if you set it up right.

I acquired my Mesa Dual Rec when I was getting into my metal phase. I remember it sounded like pretty much every modern metal band, which made me realize how narrow the tone spectrum is in the metal world. I tried playing my strat while focusing on blues, jazz and rock etc... It just was missing something. I tried to like It, I tried so hard... It looked so beautiful and well made... Just could not enjoy it at all. I was super bummed out and tried experimenting in every possible way... Just missing something.

Now their other line of amps are extremely versitile. I cant remember what exact model it was but I am sure it was a Mark series... It was loud and small... I could get Fender like cleans n dirt all the way to ALMOST Marshall territory.

TBH my favorite amp for metal and high gain? My Peavey Supreme 160.


Marshall has the "Vintage" market down, all amps have the classic Marshall's DNA. Now I think Marshall is getting into a good stride with the Studio series of "Vintage" amps and the Origin series for affordable "Vintage" tone. They have their focus in the right spot, no need to step out of their market and compete with other brands.

 

[trax1139]

Mesa will be. Dont forget they were actually innovative with the Mark series, while Marshall only copied the Bassman

That’s right! The lowly Fender Bassman started this whole freakin argument!

 

[BftGibson]

I would like to hear the Badlander played like you'd play a Plexi. Tuned to standard or no lower than D, and played old school.

I honestly can't get a handle on an amp's tone if it's played in drop tuning. I can only evaluate it in standard tuning or no lower than D.

Johan Segeborn did a demo of a Mesa Dual Rectifier doing plexi type tones. You would not expect that out of a Recto, but when played in standard tuning, it CAN sound rather Marshall-esque if you set it up right.

Its just another amp circuit in my mind. Use my triple way more for mid heavy regualar music..then when its time, down we go. The amp depending on what speakers & how its set..is great across the board. When first got it. I purposefully recorded the next 3 songs Chan 1 then 2 then 3. The cab i put together for it has 1200 Sheffields top & Emi Swamp Things bottom. The rig covers just abut anything..and when need to relieve the frustration..the brootz are there. The treble & presence used in tandem can shape as good as any amp i ever played. Tube rec,,silicon rec..bold --spongy settings & highly effective MV. great amp. I f anything its better in standard tuning cause it can be set exactly how you want it from clean to mid gain.

 

[ampeq]

There aren't many companies copying Mesa for the simple reason that there's no economically viable model for doing that. To copy a Mesa and match their build quality,
you'd have to charge more than the Mesa costs and wouldn't have the brand reputation for reliability and support to match it. Why would I pay more for a copy than to just
buy the real thing?

Lots of people copy Marshalls because, for one thing, the classic Marshalls that built their reputation are fairly simple to build, parts costs are reasonable, the circuits are simple,
and they're great platforms to build modifications on. Mesa's PC board design doesn't lend itself to a lot of modifications.

Additionally, Marshall gets as much for a 1959SLP reissue as the price of a Friedman or a David Bray amp that'll smoke it faster than Bill Clinton smoking a joint. This makes the Friedman, Bray, etc. amps a real deal!

Exactly, it's a super simple layout, nobody copies the DSL, JVM or code. What started most of these companies was the fact people wanted a "modded Marshall", which is where they got their start. Then they just said screw it, I'll make my own using some of the mod's their customers liked. Mesa's are much more complex and they all come with "mod's" built in.

 

[Sapient]

Its just another amp circuit in my mind. Use my triple way more for mid heavy regualar music..then when its time, down we go. The amp depending on what speakers & how its set..is great across the board. When first got it. I purposefully recorded the next 3 songs Chan 1 then 2 then 3. The cab i put together for it has 1200 Sheffields top & Emi Swamp Things bottom. The rig covers just abut anything..and when need to relieve the frustration..the brootz are there. The treble & presence used in tandem can shape as good as any amp i ever played. Tube rec,,silicon rec..bold --spongy settings & highly effective MV. great amp. I f anything its better in standard tuning cause it can be set exactly how you want it from clean to mid gain.

Yes, but you're an electronics fellow.

 

[The Dose of Harmony]

Marshall doesn't compete with anyone. Everyone else is competing with Marshall.

Sounds good but i think its not true!

I think Marshall its behind !

they dont have that many new models and i havent seen anything innovative as the others!

i think Friedman ,Diezel ,MESA and Even Matchless are pushing to NEW TERRITORY!