Marshall's answer to the Badlander

[sir john maxwell]

Just checked out the Badlander on Boogies website. Its everything I hate about the Recto times two. Flubby, lifeless and dull. This is just my opinion, yours may be different but for me, I'll gladly pass on the Badlander.


The Badlander isn't anything new, just a different Recto. To say Marshall hasn't been playing the same game by tweaking current and past amp series is silly.

the badlanders low end is super tight compared to a marshalls muddy low end ..

 

[sir john maxwell]

Im just hoping we are going to get something new from Marshall to compete the criticaly accaimed Badlander. A new flagship amp serie or something. It would be pretty awesome.

they need a new line ! for new style metal.. they have nothing...

 

[Alec McClanahan]

Im just hoping we are going to get something new from Marshall to compete the criticaly accaimed Badlander. A new flagship amp serie or something. It would be pretty awesome.

Ya id like to see anything new and innovative come from marshall. That badlander looks awesome.

 

[sir john maxwell]

Unfortunately Marshall have missed the boat by a country mile . Friedman, Suhr ,ceriatone , Wizard, EVH , Victory to name just a few have appeared on the scene and stolen the show by making what Marshall should have years ago .

amen brother ! marshall needs to wake up ! not too many of the musicians i know care to play a marshall. and marshalls always seem to go down on you ! ive owned alot of them in the 70s and 80s..always were in the shop !

 

[sir john maxwell]

Marshall doesn't compete with anyone. Everyone else is competing with Marshall.

LOL! thats a good one... they aren't out selling everyone...marshall is competing with everyone! lol..

 

[Neptical]

....and folks, the fanboys have showed up.

 

[SonVolt]

How many Mesa copies in boutique amp's?

How many Marshall?

That doesn't make any sense. Boutique Marshall knock-offs exist because Marshall won't do it themselves. Mesa is already boutique in the sense of their innovation and build quality right out the gate.

 

[SonVolt]

Thank you Trelwheen. Very kind of you to speak so highly of my work.

Much respect. David...♫

As a lifelong Mesa fanatic, I hate to admit that your modded Marshall if my favorite amp!

 

[bigbadorange]

lol, did the marshall forum suddenly get invaded by TGP? To the OP, I am not sure what I would want from Marshall right now. The built in IR for recording is interesting, but I would prefer something like Fryette powerstation or UA OX, so it can be switched around. I think the issue may be that there are only so many ways to take a guitar signal and make it louder. Almost like a home trash compactor, there are only so many ways to do it, and you can only add so many features that may or may not be usefull. (For example my dishwasher will announce that it is done via wifi. Or, I could just LOOK at it, is wifi notification TRULY useful in this case?). I have a LOT of marshall heads and also own or have owned most modelers. Since all my modelers spend most of their lives modeling some sort of Marshall, I thought the code series was a brilliant first start (Well at least the "brains", I would have like to see them put it in a pedal form like fractal, helix, and atomicamps.) I can't imagine how much R&D they spent to get that rolling, and now its like a red-headed stepchild. If they put in some serious effort they could have easily taken on fractal, helix, etc.

As far as boutique like Friedman, Diezel, Soldano, etc "blowing away" marshall I have to laugh. I have owned most boutique amps and then sold most of them. I love the artist like wiring, but if I use my ears and not my eyes, I preferred my marshalls. Additionally, those heads are big $$$ and they really don't "blow away" a marshall. (I am a mostly high gain guy, focusing on death metal (7 string detuned), Thrash metal (7 and 6 stings), 80s hair band, and have also gigged a ton of classic rock gigs). That is not to say that those amps were not awesome amps in their own right. But I would use the term different, not better.

I think another issue is that amps (unless truly doing heavy gigging) don't really wear out. So as a builder your competing against stuff you made 20, 30, 40 years ago.

Edit, I thought of something. With all these heads and a set of guitars to match, I have realized what above all else seems to be the difference in a good tone vs a great tone. A guitar that matches the mojo of the amp. I can take ONE guitar and run it through 20 different heads and they all may sound good, but only a couple or a few will sound magical. Take that same model guitar, but a different color, (yes I have some of those), and it very well may sound magical in different amps than the first one, even though same make, model, wood, pickups, etc. I have a pretty good idea now as to which guitars sound best through which heads I own. Yes I can take a great sounding head, switch guitars, and now it is good, but not great. Take that same guitar and put it through a different head and the magic is back. It really is crazy. I would even bet that the majority of people being dissapointed in the tone they get from an amp are getting bad tone as the guitar and the amps "mojo" don't match. Not that the guitar or amp is not good.
So, an amp that can adjust its "mojo" to match the guitar plugged into it would be my wish BTW, I kind have found something that helps in this regard. The Horizon Devices precision drive. It has an "attack" knob that is essentially a 6 way high pass filter. It is the only knob I use. By adjusting this, I can usually get a "mojo" mismatch to improve about 50% towards that magical tone.

 

[danteschall]

Jim is long gone, so is Marshall. What do you still expect from them? It's a brand name the company behind the iconic amps of the 60s, 70s and 80s does not longer exist. Be happy for what they made and how they changed the world in a relatively short period of time. They are miles behind anything relevant this day. Never in my life will I ever buy a new product from them, but I'm just discovering the amazing history they made and surely that'll keep me interested for a couple more decades building stuff.

I completely disagree with you. The DSL 100 HR is a bad ass amp and at $900 new, show me a better tube amp head. The classic gain channel sounds a lot like a JCM (only channel I personally use) takes pedals exceptionally well. Its a killer amp IMO.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

That doesn't make any sense. Boutique Marshall knock-offs exist because Marshall won't do it themselves. Mesa is already boutique in the sense of their innovation and build quality right out the gate.

Mesa are considered a mainstay amp. They might have been considered "boutique" in 1976, but, I wouldn't consider them boutique.

But, even other competitors have cop'd Marshall designs.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

i like it also.. i dont like the muddy marshall low end!

Really, to be honest in the Mesa badlander demos I’ve heard it sounded mushy. Which admittedly could be the way they were equalised , but Mesa rectifiers generally do sound kind of mushy in my opinion. I do have to admit I’ve never played a Mesa and I don’t think I’ve seen any bands that use them either come to that .

 

[SixStringSting628]

Marshall doesn't compete with anyone. Everyone else is competing with Marshall.

Yep!! Marshall FTW!

 

[WellBurnTheSky]

Looks like a bunch of guys felt compelled to subscribe to the board with the sole purpose to fanboy on M/B and crap on Marshalls. Kinda sad to be so bored/have so much time on one's hands and have nothing more interesting to do than waste time and bandwidth trolling...

I would like to hear the Badlander played like you'd play a Plexi. Tuned to standard or no lower than D, and played old school.

I honestly can't get a handle on an amp's tone if it's played in drop tuning. I can only evaluate it in standard tuning or no lower than D.

Johan Segeborn did a demo of a Mesa Dual Rectifier doing plexi type tones. You would not expect that out of a Recto, but when played in standard tuning, it CAN sound rather Marshall-esque if you set it up right.

Mike Soldano said several times the Recto is an almost exact copy of the SLO100 (he said he was mad at Randall Smith because of this), and the SLO IS derived from the JMP, so...this makes sense.

And fwiw Marshall does make several higher gain amps - the JCM900s, the DSLs, Jubilees, 6100, JVMs....and besides, the old trusty 2203 and 2204 take ODs and boosts very well, and it's amazing what they can do

Wasn't it Mark Cameron that commented on his goal when modding an amp being to beat a boosted Marshall, and that it was a pretty high bar ?
Most of the classic rock/hard rock/metal tones we revere were boosted Marshalls, so...yeah. Hell, beyond that, Andy Summers, Al Di Meola, the Stax guys, all Marshalls, so if that's a one trick pony, that's one hell of a flexible and kickass trick.

 

[Drinkingdeath01]

the badlanders low end is super tight compared to a marshalls muddy low end ..

Your saying the Recto has a tight low end ? Wow, ah ok. Lol.

 

[SonVolt]

Looks like a bunch of guys felt compelled to subscribe to the board with the sole purpose to fanboy on M/B and crap on Marshalls. Kinda sad to be so bored/have so much time on one's hands and have nothing more interesting to do than waste time and bandwidth trolling...

You realize you're in the "Other Amp" forum right?

Your saying the Recto has a tight low end ? Wow, ah ok. Lol.

Not without a boost... but I wouldn't say an 800 has a tight low-end without a boost either. It's just a relic of the time.


Anywho, who cares about the Rectos. Mesa made this amp 40 years ago and the rest is history. There was no other amp that sounded like this at the time. They created the first modern true high-gain amp.

This tone...

40 years ago...

No boosts....

Legendary.

 

[WellBurnTheSky]

You realize you're in the "Other Amp" forum right?

And ? Still is the MF. They still subscribed just for this thread. And feeling compelled to crap everything that isn't "the thing you like" is stupid and childish anyway.

 

[Drinkingdeath01]

You realize you're in the "Other Amp" forum right?




Not without a boost... but I wouldn't say an 800 has a tight low-end without a boost either. It's just a relic of the time.


Anywho, who cares about the Rectos. Mesa made this amp 40 years ago and the rest is history. There was no other amp that sounded like this at the time. They created the first modern true high-gain amp.

This tone...

40 years ago...

No boosts....

Legendary.

Plus 1 on the Mark iic+. My iic+ Coliseum has a tone like nothing else. Forty years already ? Damn, I better keep an eye out for my AARP card.

 

[NoelH]

I listened to the Badlander YouTubes. I does seem like they've taken the Rectifier and somewhat thinned out the overwhelming midrange din that to me identifies the Recto. I had a Single Rectifier for a bout 4 months. Couldn't get past the midrange 'syrupy' frequencies.
But honestly, I think JVM series sounds much better. I could never cut through my band (We have keyboards) mix with the Recto. Maybe this version of the Recto may do that better. Still, my DSL 50 has clarity and I can boost the front end for solos, and I don't have to EQ the crap out of it. I tried the Triple Crown awhile back. Good, but not great. Sounded like Mesa trying to reinvent the wheel by making a 'British' sounding amp. But that signature Mesa gain-stage was still there adding WAY too much everything.
Frankly, I'm not interested.

Sidebar, back in '82, I drove up to Petaluma from Redwood City and picked up a MKIIC head at Mesa headquarters. Jim Cassero from Vicious Rumors fired it up for me on the loading dock, and took me through it's features. Rolling Stones flight cases were all over the place BTW.
It lasted 2 months. Traded it for a '69 metal panel and $300 cash. Used the cash to have Keith Reinneger put in Pre and Post PI Masters and a slight gain boost. Wish I still had it. Best danged amp I ever owned.

 

[BftGibson]

I listened to the Badlander YouTubes. I does seem like they've taken the Rectifier and somewhat thinned out the overwhelming midrange din that to me identifies the Recto. I had a Single Rectifier for a bout 4 months. Couldn't get past the midrange 'syrupy' frequencies.
But honestly, I think JVM series sounds much better. I could never cut through my band (We have keyboards) mix with the Recto. Maybe this version of the Recto may do that better. Still, my DSL 50 has clarity and I can boost the front end for solos, and I don't have to EQ the crap out of it. I tried the Triple Crown awhile back. Good, but not great. Sounded like Mesa trying to reinvent the wheel by making a 'British' sounding amp. But that signature Mesa gain-stage was still there adding WAY too much everything.
Frankly, I'm not interested.

Sidebar, back in '82, I drove up to Petaluma from Redwood City and picked up a MKIIC head at Mesa headquarters. Jim Cassero from Vicious Rumors fired it up for me on the loading dock, and took me through it's features. Rolling Stones flight cases were all over the place BTW.
It lasted 2 months. Traded it for a '69 metal panel and $300 cash. Used the cash to have Keith Reinneger put in Pre and Post PI Masters and a slight gain boost. Wish I still had it. Best danged amp I ever owned.

Are you sure it was a 2c in 1982 ?

 

[Lo-Tek]

Mesa vs. Marshall. lol
At the end of the day Fender is still top dog and nobody will ever match that legacy. I don't own one but they are obviously the best and most successful amp maker.
Imo- Marshall and Mesa are not really in direct competition....at least not until Mesa starts branding refrigerators.
In all seriousness, they are two totally different business models.

..I’ve acquired 3 Boogies in the mean time. Very cool stuff and very versatile. They’ve kinda opened up my eyes some. I don’t do rectos either. Just clean, blues and classic rock...

I'm with you- I like my Mesas for those kind of tones.