Metallica tone?

[LPJohnny]

From what I can tell Metallica's 2 guitarists use both Mesa and
Marshall gear. The tone on some of the early material, like seek
and destroy, can be approximated pretty closely with a stock
Marshall high gain tube amp with a scooped mids setting of the
tone controls. However, some of the black album sounds are
much tougher to get. Any opinions on gear/settings to get this
type of sound?

LPJohnny

"Everything louder than everything else" - Saw this printed
on a motorhead T-shirt.

 

[jcmjmp]

Early Metallica is all 100W Marshall amplifiers.

Master Of Puppets marks the introduction of Mesa as Preamps only, into 100W Marshall heads. On MOP, Kirk used a Mark IIC+, which is pretty much the equivalent of the Mesa Studio preamp, which he later used. Kirk also used, and still does, the ADA MP-1.

And Justice For All marks the beginning of the All mesa tone. AJFA has the be the worst 'tallica tone ever. They were experimenting a lot though and refined their sound by the time they got to the Black Album.

For the black album, you need a 32 band eq and tweak the frequencies very carefully.

Here's an exerpt from Wiki on Jame's gear:
By 1990, along with the assistance of Bob Rock, Hetfield perfected the scooped-midrange studio tone that he had been seeking since 1983. He discovered that utilizing the midrange frequencies straight from a modified Marshall amplifier, layered over guitar tracks of his trusty Mesa/Boogie MarkIIC+ as well as the Mesa/Boogie MarkIV, plus an ADA MP-1 preamp and a Mesa/Boogie Strategy 400 poweramp, he would get a much thicker and richer tone. He enhanced the frequencies by enclosing his four Marshall 1960B speaker cabinets with foam walls and U-Haul blankets, and carefully phase-canceled particular frequencies with eight closely-positioned microphones and two ambient condenser microphones.

That means a LOT of tracks through a lot of different amps.

 

[Vintager12]

Mesa or 100 W marshall with a booster and a esp guitar also get an EQ ( MXR) an acoustic simulator is also handy a volume pedal and a wah , a reverb a a little bit of chorus.

 

[LPJohnny]

I wonder if the early sound used stock or modded Marshalls?

Much discussion of the MOP sound has been made. I remember
reading that the enginner's notes on the recording of this album
stated that "a Mk IIC+ was "slaved" into a Marshall power amp,
and a parametic EQ was used to scoop out the mid frequencies."

I have a question about the ADA MP-I preamp. Can the output
of the preamp go directly into the input of a head or do you have
to use a power amp alone? Or, can the output go into the effects
return on a head with a loop.

I agree with your opinion of the AJFA album tone. The tone is far
too harsh. Mesa makes great gear, but any amp can sound like crap
if set wrong.

Thx! LPJohnny

 

[Shawn Fate]

http://www.freewebs.com/montyjay/metgear.html

 

[HOT TUBES 70]

i don't know much about these guys and there gear , but i do know that the black alblum
was recorded using some marshall amps as well , my pal has a video of the making of
that alblum and you see Kirk plugged into and old marshall head , also you see in the
back ground a JMP1 and power amp in a rack along side a ADA mp1.

its funny i was just having this converstion with a guy at my local music store and he likes the newer guitar sounds from these guys , and i say that the best guitar sounds
from them is off RELOAD , not there most popular effort in terms of a alblum , but the
guitars are huge and warm , i had to revisit some of this material after having this talk
with my friend , and its a better group of work than it gets credit for imo !

 

[WrenchDevil6]

Load/Reload are fine examples of Metallica's work. I'm a life-long fan and never figured out the dissension among the rank and file of Metallica fans over these albums. In my opinion, they absolutely ROCK! I think that's it though... They ROCK. These are the two albums where The Mighty Met decided to turn the mids up. Just listen to "Ronnie" or "Poor Twisted Me" from the Load album or "Bad Seed" from Reload. While on "Bad Seed" there's still a bit of scooping, it's still got the guts of serious mid's rock 'n roll.

I say, that they've weathered the storm of bullshit and somewhat placated the throng of naysayers. I saw them recently and they rocked heavier, with more heart, than they had in pretty much fifteen years or so. They no longer just go through the motions.

Oh, and as far as the Metallica tone... A pair of EMG 81's and my SL-X get me there, and when I need a change I grab for the 81/60 guitars. I really don't have the resources to replicate the Metallica sound through the decades so I go with what gets me there and drive on. I am looking at a Mesa Tripple-Rec and cab in the distant future, however. Because, while it has nothing to do with Metallica or searching for that tone, I really love the Mesa sound. The Mesa sound that Godsmack gets is just plain gut churning, heavy.

 

[The Mick]

James Hetfield's Amplifiers

 

[WrenchDevil6]

James Hetfield's Amplifiers

Three posts up from yours.

 

[HOT TUBES 70]

Load/Reload are fine examples of Metallica's work. I'm a life-long fan and never figured out the dissension among the rank and file of Metallica fans over these albums. In my opinion, they absolutely ROCK! I think that's it though... They ROCK. These are the two albums where The Mighty Met decided to turn the mids up. Just listen to "Ronnie" or "Poor Twisted Me" from the Load album or "Bad Seed" from Reload. While on "Bad Seed" there's still a bit of scooping, it's still got the guts of serious mid's rock 'n roll.

I say, that they've weathered the storm of bullshit and somewhat placated the throng of naysayers. I saw them recently and they rocked heavier, with more heart, than they had in pretty much fifteen years or so. They no longer just go through the motions.

Oh, and as far as the Metallica tone... A pair of EMG 81's and my SL-X get me there, and when I need a change I grab for the 81/60 guitars. I really don't have the resources to replicate the Metallica sound through the decades so I go with what gets me there and drive on. I am looking at a Mesa Tripple-Rec and cab in the distant future, however. Because, while it has nothing to do with Metallica or searching for that tone, I really love the Mesa sound. The Mesa sound that Godsmack gets is just plain gut churning, heavy.

i agree with you , metallica got slammed over those 2 cd's and they rate
high on my list of good metallica stuff , and i know that no one will believe
me when i say it but , my 3rd channel on my 6100 nails that scooped
chunky bad ass type modern sound as well , its awsome having amps that
can do alot of different tones . i would say from what you and steelhorse
have said about the SLX marshalls , is there a need for a mesa ???

 

[WrenchDevil6]

...is there a need for a mesa ???

Have you been talking to my wife? Not really... But that doesn't keep us from wanting one, does it? I think that the Mesa, while I have never really had one at home to run through its paces, has a tighter sound. Not that the SL-X is loose by any means, but there's something there in the Mesa that I like. It could actually be the Mesa that I happened to be playing through at the time also. Maybe what I really need/want is a Mesa cab... Hmmmm, I think that may be it. I will have to test that theory.

 

[HOT TUBES 70]

Have you been talking to my wife? Not really... But that doesn't keep us from wanting one, does it? I think that the Mesa, while I have never really had one at home to run through its paces, has a tighter sound. Not that the SL-X is loose by any means, but there's something there in the Mesa that I like. It could actually be the Mesa that I happened to be playing through at the time also. Maybe what I really need/want is a Mesa cab... Hmmmm, I think that may be it. I will have to test that theory.

i cranked a Zack Wylde 800 thru a Mesa tall reto cab w/ v30's , super huge
tone , i think if you put 4 vintage 30's in a mode4 cab it sound good too !

i can relate to you wanting a mesa , a few years back i did a shoot out of
some of the best rock/metal amps at a rehearsal place , and my 6100LM
could make some tones that the mesa could not do , and also my 6100
could not make that the mesa could do . i'm a marshall die hard man but
the mesa's can sound good too !!!

 

[raddy]

well metallica uses the archangel settings to what i can believe its bass 10 mid 0 and treble 10 not sure about the contour that you will have to hit and experiment to get what you want but the basic diry tone is what is above bass 10 treble 10 and mid down all the way to 0.

 

[Patill]

The deal of Metallicas sound is the mastering. You won´t sound good in a band with that guitarsound, the whole band must be mastered with scooped mids.

You can easily hear that by listening to James´ voice or the bassdrum or the snare. Everything has scooped mids, not only the guitars, and that´s why it sounds how it sounds.

 

[steelhorse]

Have you been talking to my wife? Not really... But that doesn't keep us from wanting one, does it? I think that the Mesa, while I have never really had one at home to run through its paces, has a tighter sound. Not that the SL-X is loose by any means, but there's something there in the Mesa that I like. It could actually be the Mesa that I happened to be playing through at the time also. Maybe what I really need/want is a Mesa cab... Hmmmm, I think that may be it. I will have to test that theory.

And that's why after years of procrastinating I went and got me what I consider one of their crown jewels (I already have a Triple Recto) an early 90's dual channel Dual Recto solo head and the 4 x 12 half back with MC90's up top and EV23L's on the bottom, you know the one with the metal grill and you need a forklift to move the thing? That one.

ABY that with my VM2266 and it's Metallica, Godsmack, Alter Bridge, whoever I want it to sound like.

I recently changed my home studio pedal lineup and have a Maxon AD999 Delay, A Digitech Hardwire Reverb, a Micro Pog Octaver, a modded DS-1 and a Tremonti Power Wah.

This is a dream setup for practice and at some point my gig rig will go on standby while I put this online, it's that good imo.

fwiw, the vintage DR kicks my Triple Rec's ass tone wise. It just has the IT factor for the Mesa tone.

 

[Purgasound]

. The tone on some of the early material, like seek
and destroy, can be approximated pretty closely with a stock
Marshall high gain tube amp with a scooped mids setting of the
tone controls.

Scooped mids??? I don't think so... The early stuff had nothing but cranked mids. Scooping mids is what metal kids do to get a bedroom tone they think sounds good. If you want 80's metal, it's a Marshall with the mids on 10 most of the time.
If you do cut the mids from the mix, you'll sound terrible on stage and won't be able to cut through the mix. Bass in the mix is what having a bass player is for.

 

[jcmjmp]

And that's why after years of procrastinating I went and got me what I consider one of their crown jewels (I already have a Triple Recto) an early 90's dual channel Dual Recto solo head and the 4 x 12 half back with MC90's up top and EV23L's on the bottom, you know the one with the metal grill and you need a forklift to move the thing? That one.

ABY that with my VM2266 and it's Metallica, Godsmack, Alter Bridge, whoever I want it to sound like.

I recently changed my home studio pedal lineup and have a Maxon AD999 Delay, A Digitech Hardwire Reverb, a Micro Pog Octaver, a modded DS-1 and a Tremonti Power Wah.

This is a dream setup for practice and at some point my gig rig will go on standby while I put this online, it's that good imo.

fwiw, the vintage DR kicks my Triple Rec's ass tone wise. It just has the IT factor for the Mesa tone.

I would say that anything and everything you own is the best gear in the world and crushes everything else.

 

[jcmjmp]

Scooped mids??? I don't think so... The early stuff had nothing but cranked mids. Scooping mids is what metal kids do to get a bedroom tone they think sounds good. If you want 80's metal, it's a Marshall with the mids on 10 most of the time.
If you do cut the mids from the mix, you'll sound terrible on stage and won't be able to cut through the mix. Bass in the mix is what having a bass player is for.

Scooped mids.... on a Marshall... like a setting of 3 or 4, especially on Ride the Lightning. I don't think the OP meant scooped mids ala Mesa DR.

 

[steelhorse]

I would say that anything and everything you own is the best gear in the world and crushes everything else.

Why thanks jcm!

Although I know you were being sarcastic I believe what I have does sound great to me.

Heck we all know around here that you think your gear is the best and I have no problem with that.

Apparently you don't like it when someone else thinks their gear rocks, oh well.

 

[Shawn Fate]

A Mark III will nail the MOP / RTL tone.