New amp 800, 900 sl-x, jvm ?

[NateCordova]

Hey guys.

Im looking for a new amp, for a band situation (jams and small or medium outside gigs)

I play thrash metal (metallica, megadeth), and i want a skull CRUSHING distortion sound, with powerful palm mutes and screaming CRUNCHY chords. It must be ballsy, and i don't want scooped mids.

Examples of the tone i wan't would be... Motley Crue's "too young to fall in love" song (i dont like this band but that tone is so awesome)

and Megadeth "Peace Sells". Actually the entire record. The ideal would be this tone with more gain for thrash metal.

So far so good, im in for a marshall right?

I think these tones were made with jcm 800s. But in another forum they said the 900 SL-X would be what i want. Does it have the same CRUNCH??

This makes up some questions. I would need to boost the 800.
And also , i would like a decent low gain clean channel thats easy to switch (either to roll the volume on the pickups, or footpedal...or both if i use a OD pedal). You know, to play stuff like metallica...and in my band il use a lot of cleans in intros and such.

I also tried a jvm at a shop near where i live (Lisbon) and that made me 100% sure that I want a marshall. That JVM had a distortion just the style i want. Now i didnt settle for the jvm because i heard there are amps with better distortion.

i wouldn't crack the 800 all that loud as you see i won't play in stadiums.

What you think might be my best choice?

 

[thrawn86]

The 800's are bone crushers, but the 900's are the thrash sound from the 90's.

 

[Cardiac Tom]

I play death metal and use a 100W JCM900 4100...I play straight in and am relatively happy with my sound...I will be getting an EQ on Sat morning to further tweak it...I used to use a Boss Metal Zone for a number of years, and I was never really satisfied with it...

I love the 800 though...I have played those quite a few times and wish I had one...Not saying I'd ditch the 900, but I still want an 800...

During those times in thrash and 80's metal, the 800 was very popular...

Hope this helps a bit...I am not super knowledgable about amps...There are a lot here who are though and I'm sure you'll get some more opinions...

 

[NateCordova]

Hope this helps a bit...I am not super knowledgable about amps...There are a lot here who are though and I'm sure you'll get some more opinions...

Thats why i posted exactly here, on the marshall forum =P

I want a bone crusher. You know megadeth's tone on the 80s and early 90s? Thats freaking awesome. Live too.
Think peace sells, i repeat, think PEACE SELLS, with a bit more gain. that would be perfect! Its just mothafreaking awesome!

I forgot to mention the JCM 800 KK model.

The thing is, i dont really like slayer and they're tone looks like scooped mids i dunno :S I don't want scooped mids.

Does a old 800 sound better than the rest (see what i want above) at not fully cranked volumes, with a overdrive pedal on top of it?

For thrash obviously.

Can i keep the rythim pickup on my les paul with the volume down and switch to it and turn the od off whenever i want clean ? Will it work good?
I mean that clean that has no distortion at all.

 

[big dooley]

not only is the JVM the most versatile amp, but it works very well in any live situations as well, the emulated line out works like a charm and the guy behind the faders will be very happy with you
the JCM2000 line is covered by it (i owned a DSL100 for 10 years, so i know what i'm talking about), and it holds it own against my bandmates JCM800 split channel, although in shere volume it bite's the old 800's dust

i'd leave the JCM2000-series for what they are, 'cause the JVM has that tone covered, but they are awesome amps, and should be considered, when you're on a budget

i'm only familiar with the split channel JCM800... it's a rock-solid amp, but it's clean channel doesn't shine as the JVM... in fact the JVM has the best clean sounds any mastervolume/multichannel marshall will offer...

the JVM has also the most amount of gain (distortion) in stock form... i sold all my OD-pedals, since i've got this little gem

any bad things?
yes, the stock tubes are not my cup of thea, and the bias is set pretty cold to my idea, it feels like it's built a bit on the cheap side as well, with those wobbly pots (although that's done on purpose, strenghtwise)

the best solution would be playing all the amps, but the chances of achieving that are slim...

 

[NateCordova]

not only is the JVM the most versatile amp, but it works very well in any live situations as well, the emulated line out works like a charm and the guy behind the faders will be very happy with you
the JCM2000 line is covered by it (i owned a DSL100 for 10 years, so i know what i'm talking about), and it holds it own against my bandmates JCM800 split channel, although in shere volume it bite's the old 800's dust

JVMs have a ton load of gain, yes i know, i tried a epi les paul standard on one and it had the bridge pickup pretty low. I could'nt pass the gain over 4 or else it would become so fizzly god, but with gain between 3 and 4 was kickass.

I didnt settle for it cuz i think i can get a even bigger crunch on another amp.

think peace sells xD i love that

But hey, dont think that much bout the cleans! i dont need them to be awesome, i would settle for any usable clean thats alright (with no distortion on it at all. (Hell even solid state like cleans will do) The distortion must be awesome though.

 

[big dooley]

you're right on the amount of gain on that....
i use OD1 orange and OD2 red with the gain pots below 4... even then i still need a noise gate...

but i'm using .012 strings in standard tune, so no need for high gain-numbers to get rediculous balls-out sounds... in fact i like to keep it a bit mellow on the pre-amp and let the attack of the strings do the talking!

 

[core]

I think you're on the right track but there's a lot more to Megadeth's sound than a single amp. I worked for him a few years back and got to play on his old JCM800 stack that was used around the Peace Sells time which was a real treat! But he also used a JMP-1 preamp to get those tones not to mention guitars/pickups and overdubs in the studio. Later he used Marshall 9200 power amps with the JMP-1 preamp which would be overkill for you. Dave Murray from Iron Maiden also used this same setup for years.

Megadeth is now exclusively using the JVM410H with the Digitech GSP1101 effects processor but other than that I think you might be happy with a JCM900 4100DR. I have one of those and it has that tone I think you are after. A lot of people here aren't into them but mine has Svetlana 6L6gc tubes which is fine for metal and thrash. With it's A/B channel system I can get awesome gain from the B channel and super clean tones from the A channel with the gain down. No pedals. I think that's what you're looking for. Phil Campbell from Motorhead uses JCM900 4100DR models live (4 stacks) in the B channel only and it's KILLER! Never been to a LOUDER show definitely thrash for sure.

 

[NateCordova]

I think you might be happy with a JCM900 4100DR. I have one of those and it has that tone I think you are after. A lot of people here aren't into them but mine has Svetlana 6L6gc tubes which is fine for metal and thrash. With it's A/B channel system I can get awesome gain from the B channel and super clean tones from the A channel with the gain down. No pedals. I think that's what you're looking for. Phil Campbell from Motorhead uses JCM900 4100DR models live (4 stacks) in the B channel only and it's KILLER! Never been to a LOUDER show definitely thrash for sure.

I'm not into motorhead so i dunno The only tone i really like on Iron Maiden is from Aces High and Two Minutes to Midnight. It just misses a lil bit of gain in there though.

Does a 900DR with svetlana 6L6GC tubes have more crunch and balls than a boosted 800? or a 900 SL-X? Because i heard the dual reverbs are weak in balls department. Have you played a SL-X? It has one extra tube stage, the gain goes from 0 to 20. Doesnt have that diode that helps in distortion like normal 900s

Well i can't aford a JMP-1 and a 800 at the same time lol.
But a used 800 is possible. Current Megadeth tone live is good but not as good as older tones. Youthanasia's album tone is rly good too. you hear the crunch?

About my guitar i have a epiphone les paul standard plus top with everything stock, spec wise its not that much difrent from what dave mustaine used, mahogany body guitar, rosewood fretboard. Of course the bridge pickup isnt the JB4 but i don't think the money on getting one will give me that more crunch and balls. Am i wrong?

 

[DC135er]

Hey guys.

Im looking for a new amp, for a band situation (jams and small or medium outside gigs)

I play thrash metal (metallica, megadeth), and i want a skull CRUSHING distortion sound, with powerful palm mutes and screaming CRUNCHY chords. It must be ballsy, and i don't want scooped mids.

Examples of the tone i wan't would be... Motley Crue's "too young to fall in love" song (i dont like this band but that tone is so awesome)

and Megadeth "Peace Sells". Actually the entire record. The ideal would be this tone with more gain for thrash metal.

So far so good, im in for a marshall right?

I think these tones were made with jcm 800s. But in another forum they said the 900 SL-X would be what i want. Does it have the same CRUNCH??

This makes up some questions. I would need to boost the 800.
And also , i would like a decent low gain clean channel thats easy to switch (either to roll the volume on the pickups, or footpedal...or both if i use a OD pedal). You know, to play stuff like metallica...and in my band il use a lot of cleans in intros and such.

I also tried a jvm at a shop near where i live (Lisbon) and that made me 100% sure that I want a marshall. That JVM had a distortion just the style i want. Now i didnt settle for the jvm because i heard there are amps with better distortion.

i wouldn't crack the 800 all that loud as you see i won't play in stadiums.

What you think might be my best choice?

Questions:

1. What pickups are on the guitar?
2. Any effects pedals?
3. Do you NEED the effects loop or are you content running straight in?
4. How much are you willing to spend?
5. Twin or stack?
6. Will you be in a touring situation?

From what you've already stated, I would go with a JCM 900 twin. I have the 4102 model and had to put a colder preamp tube in the P/I hole just to tame the damn thing down to a point where I could use the high gain channel. It also has the 50% output switch that can really throw things into higher gain if you need it. If that's not enough, slam the front end with a Marshall Guv'nor or pedal (it's like a preamp in itself. It has low, bass, mid, and treble pots for shaping your sound).

If money isn't an obstacle, you might want to think about Dr.Z, Orange, Mesa, Carvin V3 or the Carvin X100B carpetheads w/el34's (I have one of these and it's awesome and relatively inexpensive).

I don't know about Dave Mustain's pickups but what I do know is that DiMarzio PAF pros will turn that guitar into a LP on steroids. I own an Epi LP Custom and I put PAF pros on neck and bridge and the difference is amazing. But I really wished I had put on something more like the Mo'Joe.

 

[NateCordova]

Questions:

1. What pickups are on the guitar?
2. Any effects pedals?
3. Do you NEED the effects loop or are you content running straight in?
4. How much are you willing to spend?
5. Twin or stack?
6. Will you be in a touring situation?

1- Stock Alnico Humbuckers (on epiphone les paul standard)
2- Just maybe some delay or reverb. But probably not, i am a rythim thrash player so i rarely use them.
3- I don't need the FX loop
4- 800 to 1000 euros. I'll go for used stuff.
5- Twin or Stack? Does this mean 2x12 or 4x12? I was thinking maybe 2x12 cuz i don't wanna carry something half as heavy as a human corpse
6- Touring? hmmm not really, i'm planing to buy a really good amp in some months, im making a band and when the time comes to gig i would need one.
So, Jams, small or open air gigs. no micing.

I think the keywords here are:

-CRUNCH = As bone crushing as possible. also think RYTHM guitar, not solos.
-BALLS = must sound powerful and rocker like.
-GAIN = enough for Thrash (think megadeth/early metallica gain)

-FOOTSWITCHABLE/GUITAR VOLUME CLEAN=
It doenst need to be a great clean just USABLE!!!!!!!

([ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGagJervtMc]YouTube - Megadeth-Good Mourning/Black Friday[/ame]
I know this clean has chorus and all that. I know its not easy to have a clean like this but i just want a clean with this type of gain thats USABLE) The distortion on this song has awesome tone too! just what i want.

I want this exact tone with a little bit more gain:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umeZtszNShk[/ame]


-About the cabinets i dont really have an idea of those but i want:
PICK ATTACK = A cabinet that can make the pick attack of my palm mutes and all that balls felt.

 

[NateCordova]

no more sugestions?

 

[core]

I don't think you're going to get any closer than what's already been suggested. I mean the tone you want can be had from all the Marshall's mentioned. There is also the 3 channel 6100LM which has not been mentioned yet.

I recently acquired a '95 6100LM which gives a killer tone. The LM version adds an extra gain stage I believe that gives it even more distortion than the earlier model. With channel 1 (clean) and channel 3 (lead) with my Les Paul Custom and stock pickups I can get early Megadeth/Metallica up to World Needs a Hero sound pretty much no pedals and my gain is on 6. Megadeth is playing with definition and articulation so they don't run their gain to 10. It's ballsy but it's defined and clear. Plus a lot of it's in the fingers and how you attack the strings. The 6100LM is definitely ballsy, clear and holds it's own straight out of the amp. The JVM is a fine choice too. It will do what you need for sure.

You should also consider a 1960AV or BV cab with the Vintage 30's (Halfstack) as those are the speakers Megadeth uses as well but just use this as a basis to eventually find your own tone and voice in your music. Chasing someone else's tone can be a fulltime endeavor.

I don't know much about the 900 SLX other that it's supposed to be more gain than the others but it's not a two channel amp I think so you'll need other stuff to get your clean/crunch setup going. Personally I like to have a 2 or 3 channel amp so the amp speaks for itself and not the pedals. I'm sure there are a lot of guys who can add to that as pedals aren't my thing. Not sure if you know it or not but they do add some effects to their sound slightly through an effects processor. Chorus, Delay and Auto Wah but you don't need to use effects yet. I'm just telling you there is more to their tone that you might think.

So you got:
JCM800 - It's what they used early on but need pedals to have clean/crunch

JCM900 4100DR - 2 channels, will get you close to the tone you need but probably needs a MXR-10 EQ to shape the sound as others have mentioned in past threads.

JCM900 SL-X - Twin Master Volume where you can get killer distortion and use the 2nd volume for a footswitchable lead boost from what I believe.

6100LM - 3 channel will get you the tone you want with no other pedals. Can be in your price range but will have to hunt one down.

JVM410h - 4 channel that is an excellent choice and what Megadeth currently uses.

1960 cab Vintage 30's or G12-75's but I have a feeling you will like the 30's.

Pop on over to the Power/Preamp posts to learn about what types of valves to use. It's been very helpful and a good learning experience for many of us here. They know a great deal on how to effect your tone through different tubes but you really gotta know what your doing.

Good Luck

 

[NateCordova]

Thanks for the reply then.

Yes i know a lot of the sound is in your fingers. I would make a huge text explaining how i get higher pick attacks and picking chords up and stuff but i don't want to bore you.

I played a jvm with a 4x12 (no idea what cab it was) and a haze 40 on a musicstore.
The haze needed a boost, but i didnt have time to test it. It sounded pretty weak though, maybe boosted would be nice.
The jvm oh yeah that's one beast amp.But maybe it needed a noise gate, the solos on it just sounded very harsh :SSS those didn't sounded very nice to me, and the cleans where somewhat harsh too. Maybe i didnt tested things extensivily. But i had a blast playing metal rythm stuff on this amp :O Although maybe i feel it's possible to get even more balls and crunch.

I didn't settle for the jvm because a lot of people in the forums say the 800 has the most crunch and balls. People who say that they own both the jvm and the 800 and can't make a jvm have the 800's tone. Maybe those people are dumb, but i can't try these amps for myself so im kinda screwed...
And on another forum i posted and they mostly recomended me the jcm 900 SL-X.

Never really heard of the 6100 LM.

BTW i plan on buying the 50 watt version, whether i buy a jvm, 800, 900, whatever.
and if its a jvm i'l buy the 2 channel one since i only need 2 channels.

About the cab wouldn't a 2x12 be a lot easier to carry?
Is the sound diffrence that big? from a 4x12?
I have a feeling i'll like the V30s too lol

It doenst need to be a marshall cab mind that.

This is basicly the search for my dream amp.

 

[core]

Avatar Speakers makes a really stout cab and a lot cheaper than a Marshall. 2x12 would probably be fine for you and they will load the speakers with what you want or without so you can put your own in. Avatar Speakers

You might get lucky finding a 50 watt 800 in your price range so keep a look out. 900's will be easily had.

 

[NateCordova]

Avatar Speakers makes a really stout cab and a lot cheaper than a Marshall. 2x12 would probably be fine for you and they will load the speakers with what you want or without so you can put your own in. Avatar Speakers

You might get lucky finding a 50 watt 800 in your price range so keep a look out. 900's will be easily had.

Nice i think i'll get a 800 since its probably that holy grail ...
and a boost. If the boost would add more balls to it, better.

just one thing though, how do i get a clean channel on it? usable one.
If i used a boost on the amp with the amp's gain pretty high (enough for metallica and megadeth along with the boost) and turned the boost off and switched to the neck pickup with volume really low, would this be a usable clean? to play intro's and soft parts live and then switching back to distortion again
To record stuff i wouldn't do this obviously.

See this video?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd-toBWKktY&feature=related[/ame]

When the powerchords are hit on the DSL its rly nice...when they are hit on the 800 its orgasm lol. It's just bone crushing and thats really not loud. Imagine this with a lot of gain and loud for small or medium gigs it should be crushing. And its a 2205, which i've been told that aint that ballsy as the 2204 or 2203.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Sup. I own the JVM410H and can say a lot of the same positive things that Big Dooley and others have already said about it. I will disagree with Big Dooley about the tubes used in the 410. I have Shuguang/Chinese preamp tubes that sound amazing. I know that there are some JVMs out there that use JJ preamp tubes (red "Marshall" logo print) that many people were not too high on, so that may be the case.

I personally like the JCM800KK; it has tons of great-sounding gain and it's built-in noise gate is very good, imho. If you don't need a dedicated clean channel and/or channel switching, you might be good to go with this amp (remember, this amp uses different power tubes than the stock JCM800 2203, so that might be a nice surprise for you when you demo it).

The JCM900 sl-x is a great amp, too. It has a very good variety of gain and a decent clean channel. Good amp that is not too expensive, so definitely worth looking into.

I remember someone mentioning the 6100LM and/or 6100LE. These are essentially the same amp with only some cosmetic differences. These amps have earned great respect here and abroad, so you really can't go wrong with these. They are a little hard to find in some markets, so you might need to do some hunting for this, but it's a fantastic amp that can do no wrong! If you find one, without a doubt, grab it!

Bottom line is really think about what you need! If you really have no use for a clean channel, then maybe one of these fire-breathing one channel monsters would be great for you. Take some time to demo plenty of amps at least twice, if possible, so that you can decide for yourself what works best in your situation. Best of luck on your search and let us know what you decide.

 

[Adrian R]

Sup. I own the JVM410H and can say a lot of the same positive things that Big Dooley and others have already said about it. I will disagree with Big Dooley about the tubes used in the 410. I have Shuguang/Chinese preamp tubes that sound amazing. I know that there are some JVMs out there that use JJ preamp tubes (red "Marshall" logo print) that many people were not too high on, so that may be the case.

I personally like the JCM800KK; it has tons of great-sounding gain and it's built-in noise gate is very good, imho. If you don't need a dedicated clean channel and/or channel switching, you might be good to go with this amp (remember, this amp uses different power tubes than the stock JCM800 2203, so that might be a nice surprise for you when you demo it).

The JCM900 sl-x is a great amp, too. It has a very good variety of gain and a decent clean channel. Good amp that is not too expensive, so definitely worth looking into.

I remember someone mentioning the 6100LM and/or 6100LE. These are essentially the same amp with only some cosmetic differences. These amps have earned great respect here and abroad, so you really can't go wrong with these. They are a little hard to find in some markets, so you might need to do some hunting for this, but it's a fantastic amp that can do no wrong! If you find one, without a doubt, grab it!

Bottom line is really think about what you need! If you really have no use for a clean channel, then maybe one of these fire-breathing one channel monsters would be great for you. Take some time to demo plenty of amps at least twice, if possible, so that you can decide for yourself what works best in your situation. Best of luck on your search and let us know what you decide.

**All of the amps you have listed will work well to some degree for the music as you've ilustrated you would like to play. I like the same stuff too! I've been able to positvely NAIL early Metallica tones with a 900 4500. Of course this depends on your approach to the amp as stock plugging directly into will not achieve the desired results. However, with a few minor changes like running the correct 6L6GC tubes (preferably JJ) biased correctly with a front clean boost and post EQ in the FX loop will deliever INCREDIBLE results..

And for those who said the 900s lack balls are stupid dumb asses as they CAN deliver HUGE tone as long as the player has the intelligence to develop THIER OWN tone through experimentation.

btw..M.O.M indicated that the SL-X has a clean channel as it does not. The 900 SL-X MK4, like the 900 MK3, is a SINGLE channel amp with a footswitchable lead boost for solos..(great feature I might add).

For the money the 900s are hands down the best value out there. They can deliver as good, or better tones then any Marshall ever made (and I've heard almost all of them)if, and I know I repeating myself, if the player experiments with the amp.

JVMs are great..very versatile..but pricey and build quality imo is questionable..and its made in freakin' China..(fuck that)..The 2000 series sound good too..and exhibit better build quality the the JVMs..but their tone is more unique..and like the 900s, need to be experimented with to 'deliver the goods'. A healthy 800 toneally is just incredible, but lack diversity with no FX loop, single channel etc..and are pricey as well..not to mention OLD. Its not all that uncommon to get an 800 thats 25 years old!

This leaves us with the 900 series. There are several different models....4100, 4500, 2100, 2500, 4502..etc) and they ALL SOUND GOOD..(some better then others) and due to the public's misconceptions, can be had relatively cheaply..which makes them the best value out there.

I recently bought a 1990 900 MK3..for $400.00 that sounds just fucking AWESOME!! Well worth the money.

Good Luck dude!

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

btw..M.O.M indicated that the SL-X has a clean channel as it does not. The 900 SL-X MK4, like the 900 MK3, is a SINGLE channel amp with a footswitchable lead boost for solos..(great feature I might add).

JVMs are great..very versatile..but pricey and build quality imo is questionable..and its made in freakin' China..(fuck that)

Sup. Hey sorry about that. I confused the JCM 900 4100 with the JCM 900 SL-X in regards to the channel switching.

As far as the comment on the JVMs being made in China, where are you getting your information? From the combos to the heads, JVMs are not made in China and have never been made in China.

 

[jonxlh99]

All of you sound like a bunch of bitches! Just get the marshall you can afford and plug it in a do your thing. It's all in the fingers. EVH could have played a jvm, 900, 800, slx, 5150, soldano, a fuckin peavey bandit and you could not tell them apart. Stop tryin to sound like megadeath because no matter what amp or effects or guitar or pickup or anything you will not sound like them. Buy a 5150 if you want the best distorsion ever in any amp period