NMD: Lead 12 .... best bedroom plexi!

[fitz]

Hi @fitz I checked both speaker and spec for both amps and they match - Lead 12 is 8 ohms, Reverb 12 is 16 ohms.

Good. That makes sense then. Now I don't have to worry about the Reverb 12 sounding more subdued. Thanks!

well, if the reverb 12 is supposed to be 16-ohm, I don't think it should be quieter because of the speaker load.
I could be wrong - happens all the time.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

well, if the reverb 12 is supposed to be 16-ohm, I don't think it should be quieter because of the speaker load.
I could be wrong - happens all the time.

Oh...OK. Sorry, I was thinking that was in addition to what @Tatzmann said below.

The amps outputpower is altered by the load
impedance of the speaker. Thats probably why the Lead12 is a little louder.

The reverbcircuitry might also contribute.

 

[Tatzmann]

The powertransistor pair is MJ3001/MJ2501,
configured the same way in both amps. You pair this with a 16ohm speaker of the same making it'll be a little less loud, no matter what a tag on the back says.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

The powertransistor pair is MJ3001/MJ2501,
configured the same way in both amps. You pair this with a 16ohm speaker of the same making it'll be a little less loud, no matter what a tag on the back says.

OK, very good. Thank you for the clarification @Tatzmann

 

[fitz]

The powertransistor pair is MJ3001/MJ2501,
configured the same way in both amps. You pair this with a 16ohm speaker of the same making it'll be a little less loud, no matter what a tag on the back says.

Well, if it's the same power set up, any reason not to drop an 8-ohm speaker in there?
It would get louder...

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Well, if it's the same power set up, any reason not to drop an 8-ohm speaker in there?
It would get louder...

Yeah, is that OK to do? Just curious.

 

[Tatzmann]

They probably had a reason why they put the 16ohm speaker in it.

The amps are identical except for the reverb
circuit. There are 2 more dual-ics in the preamp
used for reverb which tax the small mainstransformer, maybe they tried to not put
too much stress on it. The space in the chassis
is lessened due to the Reverbpan, little more
heat could build up inside, just speculating.

Better stick with the 16ohm in the 5205, but
realistically it shouldnt be a problem to use
it with an 8ohm.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

They probably had a reason why they put the 16ohm speaker in it.

The amps are identical except for the reverb
circuit. There are 2 more dual-ics in the preamp
used for reverb which tax the small mainstransformer, maybe they tried to not put
too much stress on it. The space in the chassis
is lessened due to the Reverbpan, little more
heat could build up inside, just speculating.

Better stick with the 16ohm in the 5205, but
realistically it shouldnt be a problem to use
it with an 8ohm.

Thanks again @Tatzmann. Yeah, was just curious.

 

[Wildeman]

OK, well I should start a new thread as NAD, but I think there are pertinent things that shoud be mentioned here. Here it is, just what I was looking for - A Reverb 12 It's a 1989, same year as my Lead 12. Sorry, I didn't take a pic of them together just yet.

I did a quick comparison last night. The Reverb 12 does not seem as powerful and beefy as my Lead 12, somewhat subdued. I don't know if that's normal or not. However, what a sweet freakin' tone! The reverb is good, not great, but it works for me. I also noticed that the Lead 12 is 8 ohms and the Reverb 12 is 16 ohms. Hmmmm. I wasn't expecting to see that. Same speakers, the G10D-25. I am way more familar with tube amps and their behavior, but what maintenance can be done with these amps? New caps, etc?? How do you even know? Just curious.

I noticed that when I got a Reverb 12, not quite the animal that the Lead 12 is, it still sounded killer though and I wish I kept it, oh well, I got my Lead 12..

 

[Maggot Brain]

What is it that you like more about the Lead12 than the SV20?

Is the SV20 too thin sounding for Hendrix stuff?

Im usually against snipping brightcaps on 2203/1959/JTM type of circuits since im more
of an AC/DC sound guy, but in your case it
may be beneficial to alter the value of it or
removing it.

To my ears I think the Lead 12 sounds convincingly more like vintage Plexis I have personally played. The SV20 isn't thin so much as it just lacks a lot of character/nuances I associate with Plexis but maybe I have a lame SV20? I doubt it because it sounds identical to all the videos and clips online.

I'll explain what I'm talking about but I hate using this guitarist language ... The SV20 has a great glassiness but lacks shimmer and spank, pop and percussion no matter what volume, input, jumping combination, speaker or cab combination, tubes, location in the room etc I use and it's this character that these vintage Superleads have left the biggest impression on me with. I initially chalked it up to the low wattage and small transformers... possibly? but after playing the Lead 12, I don't think so. I can get the shimmer, spank and pop from the Lead 12 that instantly takes me back to playing genuine late 60s and early 70s Superleads... If the little SS 12 can get those characteristics I feel the SV20 should too.

The SV20 excells at the cranked Plexi tone but everything else besides that is kinda missing some character in my opinion.

Up-to-date pictures. People are home and this amp is way too loud to crank while anyone else is here. No chance I can record it at full volume.
View attachment 114240View attachment 114242View attachment 114241View attachment 114243View attachment 114244

Well shoot, you are missing out on the best part! If you ever get a chance, run it with the MV dimed and just use the gain control to dial in your volume/distortion.

OK, well I should start a new thread as NAD, but I think there are pertinent things that shoud be mentioned here. Here it is, just what I was looking for - A Reverb 12 It's a 1989, same year as my Lead 12. Sorry, I didn't take a pic of them together just yet.

I did a quick comparison last night. The Reverb 12 does not seem as powerful and beefy as my Lead 12, somewhat subdued. I don't know if that's normal or not. However, what a sweet freakin' tone! The reverb is good, not great, but it works for me. I also noticed that the Lead 12 is 8 ohms and the Reverb 12 is 16 ohms. Hmmmm. I wasn't expecting to see that. Same speakers, the G10D-25. I am way more familar with tube amps and their behavior, but what maintenance can be done with these amps? New caps, etc?? How do you even know? Just curious.

Dude! Congrats

I'd love a Reverb 12! I've never seen one listed locally and didn't know they existed until I picked up my 12. I bet playing clean with some of that reverb is just a blast on that little amp. I wonder if you can find an aftermarket reverb tank that could fit in there? , "maybe" the reverb would sound even nicer.

Right now the mini stack is on my radar... Dammit.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

To my ears I think the Lead 12 sounds convincingly more like vintage Plexis I have personally played. The SV20 isn't thin so much as it just lacks a lot of character/nuances I associate with Plexis but maybe I have a lame SV20? I doubt it because it sounds identical to all the videos and clips online.

I'll explain what I'm talking about but I hate using this guitarist language ... The SV20 has a great glassiness but lacks shimmer and spank, pop and percussion no matter what volume, input, jumping combination, speaker or cab combination, tubes, location in the room etc I use and it's this character that these vintage Superleads have left the biggest impression on me with. I initially chalked it up to the low wattage and small transformers... possibly? but after playing the Lead 12, I don't think so. I can get the shimmer, spank and pop from the Lead 12 that instantly takes me back to playing genuine late 60s and early 70s Superleads... If the little SS 12 can get those characteristics I feel the SV20 should too.

The SV20 excells at the cranked Plexi tone but everything else besides that is kinda missing some character in my opinion.

Well shoot, you are missing out on the best part! If you ever get a chance, run it with the MV dimed and just use the gain control to dial in your volume/distortion.

Dude! Congrats

I'd love a Reverb 12! I've never seen one listed locally and didn't know they existed until I picked up my 12. I bet playing clean with some of that reverb is just a blast on that little amp. I wonder if you can find an aftermarket reverb tank that could fit in there? , "maybe" the reverb would sound even nicer.

Right now the mini stack is on my radar... Dammit.

Thanks @Maggot Brain! It's sounds real nice, but the Lead 12 has much more power to my ears. I do like reverb though, I just use a pedal with the Lead 12. The Reverb 12 sounds nice and sweet, more subdued, little less gain. Not subdued when hitting it with pedals though!

 

[Neptical]

The SV20 has a great glassiness but lacks shimmer and spank, pop and percussion no matter what volume, input, jumping combination, speaker or cab combination, tubes, location in the room etc I use and it's this character that these vintage Superleads have left the biggest impression on me with.

That's terrible. This sounds like you need try out ( we really mean buy) the Origin 50 AND a Lead 100!

 

[BeardedRetroGuy]

Well shoot, you are missing out on the best part! If you ever get a chance, run it with the MV dimed and just use the gain control to dial in your volume/distortion.

Changing out my speakers has made this nearly impossible to do with other people still in the house. The original Celestion G10D-25 speakers had a sensitivity of 92 db/w. The G10 Vintage speakers in there now test in at 97 db/w. They're almost TWICE as loud at the same power level, or at least a hell of a lot louder. That's probably why they're so punchy. Seriously, they're BANGING loud. The only thing in the house that even comes close to THAT loud is my Fender Mustang V 150-watt 4x12" amp and my JVM410H with the 1960A cab. Both of those are "damage your hearing" loud.

Sometimes when I play on it (the Lead12), I think about the tone. I get TONS of mids, but in a bedroom setting, that's not always desirable. It's almost "boomy". It has a HUGE low end that you have to drastically reign back on the BASS knob to control. The big improvement was taming the ice-pick/shrill highs the original speakers had. I wonder if I would have done a LOT better with 10" Greenbacks instead of Vintage 10s. The only way I could know for sure would be to get one and swap it in and try it out, but I'm not going to spend another $130+ for a single speaker just to test. I've got a great job but I'm just not ballin' like that.

These speakers sound pretty good if I use them with my JTM1h or my JVM1h, though it's not the speaker I would have paired to those amps. If I were building my own speaker cabinets for those amps, I'd buy Greenbacks for the JMP1 and probably Alnico Blues for the JTM1.

But who am I kiddng? I don't pick up a guitar NEARLY often enough to justify spending any more money on the hobby. I'm sort-of obsessed recently with racing games/simulation. I'm planning to build an entire cockpit using wood, a salvaged car seat from a salvage yard, and my Logitech G29 setup.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

And the G10 Greenback has 95db sensitivity.

 

[Maggot Brain]

And the G10 Greenback has 95db sensitivity.

Yeah that makes a fairly noticeable difference as my G12N-40 is 95db while the Creamback is 96db and is considerably louder. It's always suprising how much of a difference 1db makes.

The G10 Creamback is finally "mellowing" out. When I first installed it the treble could get pretty piercing with the treble set high and the bass was very "boomy" past 3 or 4. Id say it started softening after the first hour or 2 of loud playing but made a more dramatic shift after about 15-20 hours. Now I can dime the treble without piercing my ears, I can dime the bass and it stays tight and usable, not necessarily the settings I use but it definitely demonstrates the speaker "breaking in".

I'm loving the Creamback, I really liked how the G10N-40 sounded but the Creamback is much better to my ears. This is exactly what I was hoping for and suprisingly very much lives up to it's relation to the 12" Creambacks. My DSL40c has a G12M65 Creamback that I love and Celestion really nailed it with the 10".

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Yeah that makes a fairly noticeable difference as my G12N-40 is 95db while the Creamback is 96db and is considerably louder. It's always suprising how much of a difference 1db makes.

The G10 Creamback is finally "mellowing" out. When I first installed it the treble could get pretty piercing with the treble set high and the bass was very "boomy" past 3 or 4. Id say it started softening after the first hour or 2 of loud playing but made a more dramatic shift after about 15-20 hours. Now I can dime the treble without piercing my ears, I can dime the bass and it stays tight and usable, not necessarily the settings I use but it definitely demonstrates the speaker "breaking in".

I'm loving the Creamback, I really liked how the G10N-40 sounded but the Creamback is much better to my ears. This is exactly what I was hoping for and suprisingly very much lives up to it's relation to the 12" Creambacks. My DSL40c has a G12M65 Creamback that I love and Celestion really nailed it with the 10".

Nice! I’m still considering the Creamback. Now I just have to decide for which amp. Most likely the Reverb 12. We shall see.

 

[jcm800gridlock]

Congratulations on your amp.

I’ve got a little Lead 12, it has some sentimental value, and it’s a keeper. It doesn’t get much playing time with all my other amps, but it sounds good for what it is.

I swapped the original speaker with a Greenback and the Greenback did improve the amp’s tone at higher volumes.

View attachment 113187

I hadn’t played my little Lead 12 in quite awhile. Thought I would plug it in and try it my new Telecaster.

Wow it sounded great, better than I remembered. I was running it through my board and I realized that my equalizer was on.

The EQ was set to a shallow “V”, big full sound, lots of bottom end, and just sounded really good. I could not believe the difference in the Lead 12’s tone. The little Lead 12 sounded like a big amp.

 

[Maggot Brain]

I love this amp more and more by the day.

I've been having fun listening to examples of classic Marshall tone to try and replicate and remembered Paul Kossof with Free playing Mr. Big live... Grabbed my LP and tweaked the Lead 12's knobs and found an eerily close tone... Goosebumps, Wow... The secret ingredient is that Celestion speaker break up, that really puts the icing on the cake, tonal nirvana.

For jamming at home at less than ear splitting volume (but still LOUD) this little Marshall is just phenomenal

 

[Wailing]

I have a Lead 12, however tend to go for my Bass 12 with my guitar, it is definitely a tamer beast but puts out a plexi tone and… takes pedals really well

 

[Maggot Brain]

So I had some issues with my Lead 12 but seem to be completely resolved with a simple bias adjustment (yes this one has a bias trimpot in the circuit). While troubleshooting I swapped the N40 back in and I think it's still my favorite. The Creamback has considerably more punch and bolder but the N40 sounds more vintage 60s/70s which I greatly prefer.

Here's a clip with the N40 back in and my Les Paul, volume on 9, gain on 8 for a nice plexi crunch. Recorded with my phone and a Rock Band (the video game) USB microphone