Origin or DSL?

[NoelH]

I have to be honest. When I plugged into an Origin a year or so ago, I flat out didn't get it. Seemed utterly lifeless to me.
I play a boutique 50-ish watt head, and a DSL 50. Love the DSL, and can generally dial in any DSL to get a good sound with little trouble. I tend to like the 20 watt more than the 40 watt for some reason, but I'll have to go with the DSL contingent here.

 

[webcat]

No it's a dual channel amp with a shared EQ - you have classic gain and ultra gain.

Am I wrong in thinking that Master 1 and Master each control one of the channels then? I've seen the foot switch just has 'channel' and 'FX' on it, so I'm not understanding how you can still use two channels independently if one of the Masters is specifically being used as a boost

 

[Dave J]

DSL40CR:
There are 2 channels, Classic and Ultra. Each channel has a gain knob and a Volume knob. Each channel also has 2 modes within that channel, Green and Red. In addition to the volume knobs for EACH channel there are 2 Master Volumes. You can assign the Master Volumes to any of the 4 modes. So for instance if you go from Classic Channel Green mode to Classic Channel Red mode you can use one of the Master Volumes for each. It is a pretty flexible setup, that is just one example.


Regarding which one you should get, it's tough to answer without you actually playing one or both. The Origin's do not have built in Reverb but the Reverb in the DSL40 CR is pretty subtle. Not like your Fender reverbs, etc. I like it because it's just enough to not have a dry signal, but if you want more just know it does what Marshall wanted it to do but it's really just there to not have a dry signal. I have a DSL40CR and while I don't own an Origin I did play the Origin 20 and 50 combo's side by side with the DSL40CR at a Guitar Center. Obviously not the best place but better than nothing. Here is what I thought then and why I chose the DSL:
The DSL was more versatile based on the gain available. It does a nice clean in Classic Green channel, and if you max the gain on the Classic channel the Green side gets to a nice edge of breakup to a classic low gain amount of gain, depending on your pickups of course. The Red side of the Classic channel gets into some classic Plexi levels of gain. Switching to the Ultra channel, the Green side starts where the Red side of the Classic left off and goes to JCM800 levels of gain, maybe a bit more. The Red side of the Ultra is just high gain. Maybe more than you need. It starts at JCM 800 and goes well into modded JCM 800 and beyond.
The Origins are a 1 channel amp as you know and the gain is Plexi. I couldn't really crank the Origins so I likely didn't get the full scoop there. I have heard the videos where players can get some decent gain from it. It's a classic sounding amp all the way.
I chose the DSL based on how versatile it was regarding the levels of gain I could get from it.

This is why I want an Origin and might move on from the DSL: ( my opinion only of course)

I want a more classic sounding amp. Hot rodded plexi at the most, but still Plexi. The Classic Green channel of the DSL has just that, a nice open classic sound. Once I even max the gain on the Classic Red channel I feel like the amp loses that classic open plexi type sound and gets more compressed than it should for the level of gain I am using. For me the Ultra Green and Red channels are just like this but even more. This next comment is very subjective and why you should find a way to try both. I really just don't bond with the tone of the amp when it provides any amount of gain beyond the Classic Green channel cranked up all the way. I am currently using the amp only in Classic Green mode and using either a Tube Screamer type pedal ( Tone Freaks Abuni II) or whatever MIAB I am in the mood for that day. I get very close to what I want. Plus with the pedals I can still get to modded JCM800 gain but without the tone and compression I don't like.

I can use it as is but I have been carting this combo along with a 1x12 extension cab to my bands practices ( can't leave anything there) and am thinking about a Origin 20 head and a 2x12 as it would one in each hand anyway to carry and I'd have a closed back 2x12 that I could throw my Greenback speakers in.
The Origin is known for being a good pedal platform ( but the DSL is also an excellent pedal platform) so if you want more reverb than the DSL's minimal 'verb you will need to add one either way.

Final though on the DSL. I had for a time a Port City 2x12 oversized Wave cab with V30's in it and in Ultra Green and Red mode it was a beast for a modern high gain Marshall sound, so the DSL's gainer tones are not by any means useless.

I would say if at all humanly possible, find some way to try both. If there is no other way but you are able to, buy both from a place or places that have a return policy.

This is all my opinion of course, there is a lot on knowledge on this site, I hope this helped.

 

[webcat]

DSL40CR:
There are 2 channels, Classic and Ultra. Each channel has a gain knob and a Volume knob. Each channel also has 2 modes within that channel, Green and Red. In addition to the volume knobs for EACH channel there are 2 Master Volumes. You can assign the Master Volumes to any of the 4 modes. So for instance if you go from Classic Channel Green mode to Classic Channel Red mode you can use one of the Master Volumes for each. It is a pretty flexible setup, that is just one example.


Regarding which one you should get, it's tough to answer without you actually playing one or both. The Origin's do not have built in Reverb but the Reverb in the DSL40 CR is pretty subtle. Not like your Fender reverbs, etc. I like it because it's just enough to not have a dry signal, but if you want more just know it does what Marshall wanted it to do but it's really just there to not have a dry signal. I have a DSL40CR and while I don't own an Origin I did play the Origin 20 and 50 combo's side by side with the DSL40CR at a Guitar Center. Obviously not the best place but better than nothing. Here is what I thought then and why I chose the DSL:
The DSL was more versatile based on the gain available. It does a nice clean in Classic Green channel, and if you max the gain on the Classic channel the Green side gets to a nice edge of breakup to a classic low gain amount of gain, depending on your pickups of course. The Red side of the Classic channel gets into some classic Plexi levels of gain. Switching to the Ultra channel, the Green side starts where the Red side of the Classic left off and goes to JCM800 levels of gain, maybe a bit more. The Red side of the Ultra is just high gain. Maybe more than you need. It starts at JCM 800 and goes well into modded JCM 800 and beyond.
The Origins are a 1 channel amp as you know and the gain is Plexi. I couldn't really crank the Origins so I likely didn't get the full scoop there. I have heard the videos where players can get some decent gain from it. It's a classic sounding amp all the way.
I chose the DSL based on how versatile it was regarding the levels of gain I could get from it.

This is why I want an Origin and might move on from the DSL: ( my opinion only of course)

I want a more classic sounding amp. Hot rodded plexi at the most, but still Plexi. The Classic Green channel of the DSL has just that, a nice open classic sound. Once I even max the gain on the Classic Red channel I feel like the amp loses that classic open plexi type sound and gets more compressed than it should for the level of gain I am using. For me the Ultra Green and Red channels are just like this but even more. This next comment is very subjective and why you should find a way to try both. I really just don't bond with the tone of the amp when it provides any amount of gain beyond the Classic Green channel cranked up all the way. I am currently using the amp only in Classic Green mode and using either a Tube Screamer type pedal ( Tone Freaks Abuni II) or whatever MIAB I am in the mood for that day. I get very close to what I want. Plus with the pedals I can still get to modded JCM800 gain but without the tone and compression I don't like.

I can use it as is but I have been carting this combo along with a 1x12 extension cab to my bands practices ( can't leave anything there) and am thinking about a Origin 20 head and a 2x12 as it would one in each hand anyway to carry and I'd have a closed back 2x12 that I could throw my Greenback speakers in.
The Origin is known for being a good pedal platform ( but the DSL is also an excellent pedal platform) so if you want more reverb than the DSL's minimal 'verb you will need to add one either way.

Final though on the DSL. I had for a time a Port City 2x12 oversized Wave cab with V30's in it and in Ultra Green and Red mode it was a beast for a modern high gain Marshall sound, so the DSL's gainer tones are not by any means useless.

I would say if at all humanly possible, find some way to try both. If there is no other way but you are able to, buy both from a place or places that have a return policy.

This is all my opinion of course, there is a lot on knowledge on this site, I hope this helped.

That helped a lot, thanks for the detailed response.

I have played an Origin once, but I was there buying a guitar so I didn't pay much attention to the amp. To try them in person now, which I agree I need to do, I need to wait until at least end of June by the current dates on the websites. Have to also hope they don't decide to increase the prices at the same time, but in the meantime I'll explore my Katana more and see if I need to switch at all

 

[Dave J]

Am I wrong in thinking that Master 1 and Master each control one of the channels then? I've seen the foot switch just has 'channel' and 'FX' on it, so I'm not understanding how you can still use two channels independently if one of the Masters is specifically being used as a boost

See my review, but if you stay in any of the 4 modes ( Classic Green/Red or Ultra Green /Red) you can only use one of the Masters and not use one of the master volumes as a boost. So say you like Classic Red and want to live there. You cannot set the other master up as a boost for Classic Red. You can use your volume knob on your guitar or a pedal. If I am wrong someone please correct me. To use the foot switch to add boost you would have to set up a gain and volume on the channel ( not mode but actual channel ) that yoiu are NOT using with a gain level, channel volume and the 2nd master volume and then use the foot switch to change to Ultra or Classic depending on which one you live on when not wanting a boost. Marshall makes a 6 button foot switch for the DSL that allows you to switch between all 4 modes ( 2 for each channel as a review) but that doesn't come with the amp, is a bit pricey, and I think is not super easy to find.
The Origin is a 1 channel amp but does have a gain boost can be controlled by the foot switch. You'd have to watch video or try one but that might satisfy you. The Origin is a simpler amp too use, but the DSL is easy once you play with it for just a bit. I have see a couple of video's that demo the dual master volume, they would totally show you all you need if you still have questions.

 

[webcat]

See my review, but if you stay in any of the 4 modes ( Classic Green/Red or Ultra Green /Red) you can only use one of the Masters and not use one of the master volumes as a boost. So say you like Classic Red and want to live there. You cannot set the other master up as a boost for Classic Red. You can use your volume knob on your guitar or a pedal. If I am wrong someone please correct me. To use the foot switch to add boost you would have to set up a gain and volume on the channel ( not mode but actual channel ) that yoiu are NOT using with a gain level, channel volume and the 2nd master volume and then use the foot switch to change to Ultra or Classic depending on which one you live on when not wanting a boost. Marshall makes a 6 button foot switch for the DSL that allows you to switch between all 4 modes ( 2 for each channel as a review) but that doesn't come with the amp, is a bit pricey, and I think is not super easy to find.
The Origin is a 1 channel amp but does have a gain boost can be controlled by the foot switch. You'd have to watch video or try one but that might satisfy you. The Origin is a simpler amp too use, but the DSL is easy once you play with it for just a bit. I have see a couple of video's that demo the dual master volume, they would totally show you all you need if you still have questions.

I'm sure it's fine in person but reading that, it sounds really, really confusing

 

[Moony]

Am I wrong in thinking that Master 1 and Master each control one of the channels then?

You can use Master1 for either channel.
And Master 2 for either channel.
It's stored as you set it on the amp via master select.

I wasn't aware that they still use the 2 way footswitch for the DSL40CR with only channel switch and effect loop switch.
I thought they had one with master switching too, which would make sense if you want to use it as a solo boost on the same chanel.
Probably you could buy such a footswitch separately - you need to ask the Marshall support - or someone here chimes in who owns a DSL40CR and knows about that.


I personally play JVM215C as a combo.
It has 2 Master Volumes too and you can literally switch everything you'd like to with a 4 way footswitch (you can even use a 6 way one which is for the JVM4 series).
If you like more flexibility buy a JVM215C - it's a better sounding amp too imho.

 

[Dave J]

That helped a lot, thanks for the detailed response.

I have played an Origin once, but I was there buying a guitar so I didn't pay much attention to the amp. To try them in person now, which I agree I need to do, I need to wait until at least end of June by the current dates on the websites. Have to also hope they don't decide to increase the prices at the same time, but in the meantime I'll explore my Katana more and see if I need to switch at all

What about the Katana don't you like? Someone else here on the Marshall Forum I believe has one that they like a lot. I looked into one just a bit and have never played one, but I did see somewhere that there is a extra set of presets that are kinda like a secret that you can get to. Also, does it take pedals well? Like overdrives into the front of it? Maybe a way you can just add a pedal to make it what you want vs buying a new amp. Also is the 2x12 the Katana 2x12? Also heard good things about that. Is that what you'd run an Origin thru. We have so many options these days, sometimes there are many ways to get to the same end goal. But it can be a rabbit hole.

 

[webcat]

If you like more flexibility buy a JVM215C - it's a better sounding amp too imho.

It's just so much more amp than I would ever use. I had the TSL and barely used what it offered, which is why the simplicity of DSL and Origin appeal

 

[webcat]

What about the Katana don't you like? Someone else here on the Marshall Forum I believe has one that they like a lot. I looked into one just a bit and have never played one, but I did see somewhere that there is a extra set of presets that are kinda like a secret that you can get to. Also, does it take pedals well? Like overdrives into the front of it? Maybe a way you can just add a pedal to make it what you want vs buying a new amp. Also is the 2x12 the Katana 2x12? Also heard good things about that. Is that what you'd run an Origin thru. We have so many options these days, sometimes there are many ways to get to the same end goal. But it can be a rabbit hole.

Yes, I have the 2x12 - 100watts, with options to play at 50w or 0.5w.

It's a really good amp, and yep it takes pedals well too. I probably need to spend more time with it.

The main reason I was thinking of moving on is because of the software. You can just play from the amp if you want (you can program multiple channels and access them from the amp directly, as well as 'panel' to control it like any traditional amp). But if you want to select specific pedals for your presets, you need to use the software. Likewise, the software is where you access EQs, nosiegates and stuff like that. Extremely powerful, but it can become a project and I just want the simplicity of plug and play.

I guess I need to sit down with it again and see what I can simplify.

 

[BaguetteDePain]

I sold my Katana mk2 for DSL20HR and 112 V30 cab.

Katana doesn’t sound loud like my DSL
Katana need a computer connected to him to set effects, i hate that.
Finally i used my Katana with a Marshall sim amp…

Im very happy with my dsl head, not with de Katana.

 

[webcat]

Katana need a computer connected to him to set effects, i hate that.

This is sort of true - you can turn effects on and off without the computer, the computer just lets you change the defaults and adjust the tone.

If you're using physical pedals like you would with a DSL, you'd never need to open the computer software because the Katana takes pedals really well

 

[BaguetteDePain]

Katana doesn’t sound like a Marshall tube.
This is the problem.
And if you need to use pedals with a amp modeler is not the good product for your use.

But, if you are happy with the Katana, god gless you.

 

[webcat]

Katana doesn’t sound like a Marshall tube.
This is the problem.
And if you need to use pedals with a amp modeler is not the good product for your use.

But, if you are happy with the Katana, god gless you.

The Katana is, I think, unique in the amp world - it isn't really a modeller. Unlike something like the Code, the Katana doesn't explicitly try to emulate other amps, it just has options that have similarities to other amps.

What's unusual about it is that you never have to use the digital aspect - you can turn it on, connect the foot switch and your pedals, and use it like a traditional amp.

Or, use the software to shape your sound and build your FX chain, which are just digital versions of Boss pedals.

It's a very different proposition to something like the Code, which really is a modeller.

Personally I don't use external pedals with the Katana, I just mentioned them as an alternative to using the on-board ones (again a difference with the Code, which I found didn't take pedals well).

It also can sound close to a tube - The Studio Rats YouTube channel has a video where they were requested to mimic a Plexi. They then do a side-by-side comparison and honestly, if you close your eyes, you wouldn't know which is which. But, yes, it did require going into Tone Studio and adjusting which OD pedal to use etc.

ETA: here's a good video on Marshall sound through the Kat

And this one shows some good tones too

Having watched these, I think I've changed my mind on replacing it!

 

[BaguetteDePain]

You seem to like the Katana a lot to give so many arguments about it, so I wonder why you created this thread ?

 

[webcat]

You seem to like the Katana a lot to give so many arguments about it, so I wonder why you created this thread ?

Can't we like multiple things? They all have different strengths.

The Katana is the closest I've got to a tube sound with a non-tube amp. I think a lot of people approach it wrong - in the first video above, you'll see he suggests using the clean channel to get the Marshall tone, whereas most people go for the higher gain channels.

The Katana also has a channel volume and master volume, both of which affect the tone (just like they do on a tube amp), so I've seen people not experiment with them. (In my experience, it's better to crank the channel volume and control the output with the master. That's the opposite of what is suggested in the DSL review video I posted yesterday, where he says to put the masters at 10 otherwise the amp has a fizzy sound, and control the output volume with the channel volume knob.)

And if a player wants to find the ideal pedal and sound, it'll take some playing around in Tone Studio.

I defend the Katana when people say it's not good or can't sound like a Marshall, because there's lots of people who have proven otherwise. Especially when you consider the price point against something like a Kemper, it's incredible.

But hey, it doesn't mean I can't like tube amps, or want a tube Marshall.

 

[BaguetteDePain]

You can try to convince yourself all you want, the Katana doesn't sound like a tube amp.

 

[webcat]

You can try to convince yourself all you want, the Katana doesn't sound like a tube amp.

I'm confused - did you join this thread just to be hostile? It seems like you just want to state your opinions and not have a two-way conversation.

 

[Alter]

To me the biggest difference between the Origin and the Dsl amps are the nature of the sound, and the optimal volume levels.

Dsls tend to sounds a bit fizzy to me. It's the kind of Marshall sound I like the least, but it works for high gain playing. Origins are more old school, more rock than metal oriented.

Dsls will more or less do their thing on any volume level, whereas Origins benefit more from high volume.

 

[webcat]

To me the biggest difference between the Origin and the Dsl amps are the nature of the sound, and the optimal volume levels.

Dsls tend to sounds a bit fizzy to me. It's the kind of Marshall sound I like the least, but it works for high gain playing. Origins are more old school, more rock than metal oriented.

Dsls will more or less do their thing on any volume level, whereas Origins benefit more from high volume.

Thanks for that. That was actually a big question mark about the Origin for me, as I doubt I'll have the ability to rely on a cranked master volume for my tone.

Out of interest for the DSLs did you dial up the master volume? One of the reviews I saw said it fizzed if that was lower, but if the master was cranked and the volume channel was used to control the sound level, the fizz went