Pickup Lesson. Feel free to ask questions

[CaptainZero]

Thanks for the thread capt! Sme great info. I had no idea that the screws, etc mad a difference. Makes perfect sense, but I never gave it a thought. Figured it was all in the resistance and mags. Looking forward to more.

 

[DirtySteve]

Thanks for the thread capt! Sme great info. I had no idea that the screws, etc mad a difference. Makes perfect sense, but I never gave it a thought. Figured it was all in the resistance and mags. Looking forward to more.

That brings up a question I was saving to see if it came out later, but what the hell.... I know on an SD custom custom if you whack off the screws even with the bass plate on the bottom 2 or three screws (E A D) it tightens up the bottom. I actually staggered mine so they step up gradually in length from the low E (even with bass plate) to the G string (full lenth). That's most peoples complaint with the CC is the loose bottom end and it was one of the first mods I ever did to a pup and it works. Why?...why does it work? Magnetic field?

 

[Billyblades]

Usually less metal means a quicker magnetic "charge". More metal will react slower because the energy travels thru that metal and the shorter the path the quicker the response.

Makes sense but Rayne is the expert on this. Im just translating what i know about electromagnetics from building tattoo machines.

Maybe that in combo with an a8 mag would be a cool experiment?

 

[CaptainZero]

Usually less metal means a quicker magnetic "charge". More metal will react slower because the energy travels thru that metal and the shorter the path the quicker the response.

Makes sense but Rayne is the expert on this. Im just translating what i know about electromagnetics from building tattoo machines.

Maybe that in combo with an a8 mag would be a cool experiment?

Idk, but wouldn't that mean more parts would be made of plastic for a quicker response?

 

[DirtySteve]

...

Maybe that in combo with an a8 mag would be a cool experiment?

Yeah it's awesome, it's affectionately known as the Custom 8 and it was the second mod I ever did. The Custom 8 was my favorite pup until I tried MHD. The Straitjacket kills it! (IMO)

 

[mickeydg5]

I know that trimming the overextended portions of the adjustable pole pieces (screws) is an old trick. I wonder how many people are aware of that?
It affects inductance, eddys (eddy currents) and efficiency.
Hopefully we will get some elaboration on that.

Add: I notice that no poles are trimmed in any of MHD's photos.

 

[Billyblades]

Idk, but wouldn't that mean more parts would be made of plastic for a quicker response?

What i am saying is taking a bobbin (imagine the bobbin is like an oreo) and trimming all the plastic out of the center (like removing the cream center) but keeping the "endcaps (crunchy cookie parts)

Then instead of plastic in the center where the pole pieces are you would "see the metal poles. Epoxy the endcaps on... then...

Then do a 3x wrap with a paper based tape or "1x wrap bandage cloth tape ".

The magnet wire will be damn near touching the metal pole pieces (cores) increacing power which may increase tone and output. Then wax pot them.

Might get better tone with less wire which could possibly be a nice full tight pickup...

 

[Billyblades]

Cant get rid of the metal core (polepices or screws) but the bobbin is only there to hold the wire.. reducing that distance could be interesting! Even tho its a fraction of an inch it is measurable and we are allready talking about something that reads a signal we cant even see!


Rayne,,, this is my future pickup! Lets try this! Hmmm? Possible Blades model at MHD...

I would love to hearthe turnout on this experiment!

Maybe drill or dremel out the bobbins then taping over cores before wrapping

Dude ... you gotta try it at least. You made a jesture to me that a friend would do n i count you as a friend and ally.
Innovation,,, even going backwards in order to go forward is all a risk and failures and mistakes are allways directed to the future good!

It might be the new hotness in pups! New tone??? Better more vibrant or more full.

 

[DirtySteve]

Billy if understand what you're getting at (and I think I get it), I like the way you think.

 

[Billyblades]

Every Madhouse has to have Mad Scientist and a Bad MuthaBuckr! Cool names...

Just havin fun!

 

[Billyblades]

Rip the guts out of the bobbin.

MHD "the RIPPER"

 

[Grenade]

I'm watching with interest and learning too. Thank you.

 

[thrawn86]

Gotta name it after someone in crazy mental health.

Kevorkian comes to mind......though not mental health.

 

[Grenade]

Clairice

 

[captcoolaid]

That brings up a question I was saving to see if it came out later, but what the hell.... I know on an SD custom custom if you whack off the screws even with the bass plate on the bottom 2 or three screws (E A D) it tightens up the bottom. I actually staggered mine so they step up gradually in length from the low E (even with bass plate) to the G string (full lenth). That's most peoples complaint with the CC is the loose bottom end and it was one of the first mods I ever did to a pup and it works. Why?...why does it work? Magnetic field?

Eddy currents. That is part of it. i think billy is grasping it with the less metal the more focused the current and charge.

 

[captcoolaid]

Idk, but wouldn't that mean more parts would be made of plastic for a quicker response?

No. and I guess at this point we will get into alloys a bit. Now I AM NOT A METALLURGIS, I only know what i know through tone testing by me and some others.

Okay here we go. Standard steels are 1010,1012,1018,1020,1022, and 1215.
These are what we use for slugs and pole screws and even the keeper bar.

I for instance use 1020 screws and 1010 slugs for a majority of my winds but there are 3 winds that I use 1018 slugs for. What these do for me and many others is give that ring out at the end of a note while 1215 just dies. kind of leaves you hanging.

To me or rather for me and what i do for the heavy side of things I use 1010 slugs and 1020 screws. They have a different mid punch than any other combo I have tried. Now for doing vintage modern I use 1018 slugs and 1022 screws. Gives it a bit more bighty mids and highs for my style of wind.

Now keeper bars screw tolerance and base plates.

Old PAFs had a very tight tolerance. NONE OF THE PLATES ARE THREADED. The holes were so tight that the screw threaded them. Same with the keeper bars. Unfortunately what this tightness translates to in higher output pups is a very tight and most times sterile tone. I use PAF style plates and keepers in most of my necks with the exception in ceramics and the new A8 stuff. But all A2, A3, A4, and A5 stuff gets special treatment.

 

[captcoolaid]

Add: I notice that no poles are trimmed in any of MHD's photos.

I do not need to. My pups are designed to be played in drop Bb. what that means for the majority of you that play in drop D or C# you get complete stability and note focus. With trimming the pole screws flush you end up with a to focused pickup that is unmanageable unless you are Yngwie or Paul Gilbert. In other words a pure technician. You ever play that amp that shows all your flaws because it is to tight. Same concept. I want the player to feel comfortable when just starting out and all the way up to the pro player.

 

[captcoolaid]

Cant get rid of the metal core (polepices or screws) but the bobbin is only there to hold the wire.. reducing that distance could be interesting! Even tho its a fraction of an inch it is measurable and we are allready talking about something that reads a signal we cant even see!


Rayne,,, this is my future pickup! Lets try this! Hmmm? Possible Blades model at MHD...

I would love to hearthe turnout on this experiment!

Maybe drill or dremel out the bobbins then taping over cores before wrapping

Dude ... you gotta try it at least. You made a jesture to me that a friend would do n i count you as a friend and ally.
Innovation,,, even going backwards in order to go forward is all a risk and failures and mistakes are allways directed to the future good!

It might be the new hotness in pups! New tone??? Better more vibrant or more full.

Dual pole scre pups are exactly that. Also Strat pups would do this. Blade pups actually have more material between the steel and the wire.. I unfortunately for the 53mm stuff use a different bobbin material and tolerence all together and because of it alter the TPL to try and trim some of the treble or highs.

Tell you what after Turkey day remind me and I will cut 2 slug bobbins and tape the slugs and we can do the experiment.

 

[mickeydg5]

I do not need to. My pups are designed to be played in drop Bb. what that means for the majority of you that play in drop D or C# you get complete stability and note focus. With trimming the pole screws flush you end up with a to focused pickup that is unmanageable unless you are Yngwie or Paul Gilbert. In other words a pure technician. You ever play that amp that shows all your flaws because it is to tight. Same concept. I want the player to feel comfortable when just starting out and all the way up to the pro player.

Yes, focus is a good descriptive word for what I experienced. I know about timming pole pieces but only have done it maybe once or twice. I remember trimming poles on a Dimarzio IBZ. Dimarzio IBZs are nice pickups to begin with but it did make a positve change, noticable but not drastic to me anyway.
I can see though that depending on the materials, winding or plain strength that it may not be best suited for some pickups.
Thank you Rayne.

 

[captcoolaid]

I have talked with Bill Megalla over at ECP today. I think he is gonna try and give some insight on what he does. He only does vintage recreations and in my oppinion is the best at it. i have a set of his in my Strat. I aint feeling to well right now so I am heading to bed. I do have some stuff to do in the morning but will be on to answer ay questions at that point. If you got Skype and want to check out some stuff or just shoot the shit while i work. PM me your skype info or I am at Rayne.Stohlman. Hit me up. I should be in the shop at or around 9 ish.