Stumped, Perplexed, Frustrated And At A Dead End...

[jimmy3711]

Hey all,

I'm absolutely beyond frustrated tonight. For the life of me I cannot get what I'm seeing in my head to happen live.

Here's what I have to work with:

Marshall 2525c and a Marshall 1912 loaded with a Greenback
Marshall 2525h and a Marshall 2536 loaded with Vintage 30's
Pedals - Shure GLXD wireless receiver w/built in tuner, Dunlop Mini Wah, Wampler Ego Compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Fulldrive 3, Wampler Plexi Drive Deluxe, MXR Smartgate, MXR Micro Amp, EarthQuacker Dispatch Maker, TC Electronics Corona Chorus
Gibson Les Paul Standard with SD Alnico 2 Pros
Charvel San Dimas Pro Mod

I just recently joined a bar band to get out and play again for fun. I was told that I need to have my solos come out more on top of the mix. Yes, I actually error on the side of needing to be asked to turn up versus turn down.

How I have the current line up - Shure receiver, wah, compressor, OCD, Smartgate on the front end - Chorus, Delay/Reverb, Micro Amp in the loop.

I use the different amps based upon venue size. Small stages I go with the combo and extension cab. Larger stages I go with the head and 2x12.

I am using both set ups without the rhythm clip engaged.

I prefer to use the overdrive/distortion from the amps. It sounds so incredible to my ears. I use the OCD to get more distortion and take it into that extremely dirty zone only for a couple of parts. Otherwise it's either the clean channel or the lead channel. When I engage the micro amp, there is no real boost in volume. Doesn't matter if it is in the loop or out front. There is definitely a gain increase from the micro amp. If I select the clean channel and engage the micro amp, it pushes the amp into full overdrive/distortion.

I am not finding a good solution here. If I use the overdrive/distortion pedals on the clean channel, the micro amp gives a great volume increase when engaged. I prefer the overdrive/distortion direct from the amp.

What am I missing?

I've tried engaging the rhythm clip and dial down the volume on the guitar to clean it up. The rhythm clip is so quiet that I have really turn the amp volume up to get it to a volume that is usable. When I switch to the lead channel, there is definitely a volume increase! However, trying to dial back to a clean sound when singing and soloing gets to be tricky for me to keep all that together.

What suggestions does anyone have? A different amp? Different pedals? I'm just beat from not finding any success.

 

[royslead]

Where are your eq settings? I ask, because if your mids are too low, you will get lost in the mix. Also, I cannot help but think, possibly due to low volume you are set at, you are running out of head room, when you hit the Micro Amp. I'm not familiar with that pedal. Do you have a regular eq pedal you could substitute last in line (in the effects loop)?

 

[royslead]

I ran into a similar situation, with a different brand, but similar Wattage amp. You may find the need to reduce the gain on your amp or you will have to find a happy medium on the clean channel. One solution I had, seemed counter intuitive at the time, but ended up working. I used my dirty channel as a clean, dialing back the gain enough to pass. Was it pristine clean? Oh, heck no, but it worked. Then, I used the clean channel with increased gain and the overdrive pedal. You may not like that, because you lose the real drive channel in the amp, but it's an option. Perhaps a volume pedal would work for you, so as not to be fumbling with the volume knob on the guitar.

 

[jimmy3711]

Where are your eq settings? I ask, because if your mids are too low, you will get lost in the mix. Also, I cannot help but think, possibly due to low volume you are set at, you are running out of head room, when you hit the Micro Amp. I'm not familiar with that pedal. Do you have a regular eq pedal you could substitute last in line (in the effects loop)?

My eq's are all about noon or slight variance there of. Mids are past noon. Volume is usually set at 3 when we play out and the cab is mic'd through the mains.

An eq pedal was an option I was considering.

 

[JimiRules]

It sounds to me that your micro amp is just acting like an overdrive. I would suggest getting an EQ pedal and putting it in your effects loop. I've heard people say that they boost the mids on their EQ pedal to stand out, but I always just raised the volume fader a tad above unity and it gave me all the volume boost that I ever needed. I tend to run a lot of mids on my amp anyways, so I never really felt the need to add anymore with my EQ pedal.

 

[ricksconnected]

everybody SHOULD have a EQ pedal

 

[dreyn77]

Those pickups are all about tone and so they compromise in the volume department.
It seems like a BIG classic pickup sound but its lacking when compared to other pickups volume power.

Put the gibson's back in and realise what they've done for you.

Seymour has done the same electrical trick which your pedals are doing, so when you click on the pedals you're doubling the same trick and it cancels out each other. It's not adding/ doubling in a good way, its in a bad way.

Your amp is increasing tone, the custom pickups are increasing tone, the pedals are increasing tone, etc...
You can't do it too many times.
Gibson has probably already customised the tone from the vintage pickups.
You've doubled, tripled, quadrupled etc... The same tone enhancing trick.

Try the vintage pickup into the amp, then the Gibson pickup from your model, then the Seymour pickup, then the pedals.
Go back to basics.

 

[royslead]

My eq's are all about noon or slight variance there of. Mids are past noon. Volume is usually set at 3 when we play out and the cab is mic'd through the mains.

An eq pedal was an option I was considering.

Try that, if you have access to one. Jimirules is right, too. You don't have to bump or cut any frequencies, just raise the volume. No electronic trickery, just about adjusting settings to get the kids to play nice together.

 

[Solid State]

MXR 10 Band EQ on the effects loop. <--Absolutely 100% guaranteed

The more gain you have on the amp, the less volume you will get from any further boost going into the front. You'll just get more distortion from any "clean boost". Using your guitar volume knob absolutely doesn't work in higher gain music for pushing one guitar forward or back in the mix.

Don't use a volume pedal.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Yup, EQ in the loop, preferably one with an overall level slider. Used this for years when I was in 2 guitar bands

 

[ricksconnected]

Jimirules is right, too.

dude that's just the way jimirules rolls.

 

[Marshall4Metal]

You might want to try a treble booster for leads there transparent and will give you boost and clarity that will make your solo's stand out. You could try an EQ in the loop as well for solo's. I use a Naga Viper for solo's and a tube screamer is on all the time for an input slam. Then I have a delay and Phaser in the loop that's it other than a Gate.

 

[jimmy3711]

Thank you all for your experience. I picked up the MXR 10 band eq pedal today. Only had a few minutes to try it, but within those few minutes, I think this is the ticket. I left everything flat and bumped the volume slider and lowered the gain slider. Definitely pops now. I'll have to work with it more tomorrow before my gig tomorrow night.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Awesome! Don't be afraid to play about with some of the EQ sliders too. I used to give a slight boost in the mid- high mid area which helps the harmonics pop out a bit too.

 

[HotRats73]

Use a reverse approach as Soldano suggests: put a pedal in the loop that cut your volume for rhythms and turn it off for leads.

 

[johnfv]

Some good suggestions here and if the EQ in the loop gets what you need then consider it done. I really like having a switchable master volume. In most of my gigs I need a broad range of tones from clean to high gain and I may need a "solo boost" for any of them. Cover band gigs can be very demanding because you're often trying to emulate very different tones including effects and the mix of the song. The JVM410HJS does everything I need, in addition to the channel switching the overall master volume can be switched so that in any channel you can get a "solo boost". For me, MIDI is important because I want to switch FX along with the amp, the JS model has a more complete MIDI implementation. I also use my Axe FX II quite a bit (both for modeling and in front of amps). YMMV...

 

[EndGame00]

EQ pedal usually does the job.. boost the mid frequencies and level...

 

[ampmadscientist]

Hey all,

I'm absolutely beyond frustrated tonight. For the life of me I cannot get what I'm seeing in my head to happen live.

Here's what I have to work with:

Marshall 2525c and a Marshall 1912 loaded with a Greenback
Marshall 2525h and a Marshall 2536 loaded with Vintage 30's
Pedals - Shure GLXD wireless receiver w/built in tuner, Dunlop Mini Wah, Wampler Ego Compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Fulldrive 3, Wampler Plexi Drive Deluxe, MXR Smartgate, MXR Micro Amp, EarthQuacker Dispatch Maker, TC Electronics Corona Chorus
Gibson Les Paul Standard with SD Alnico 2 Pros
Charvel San Dimas Pro Mod

I just recently joined a bar band to get out and play again for fun. I was told that I need to have my solos come out more on top of the mix. Yes, I actually error on the side of needing to be asked to turn up versus turn down.

How I have the current line up - Shure receiver, wah, compressor, OCD, Smartgate on the front end - Chorus, Delay/Reverb, Micro Amp in the loop.

I use the different amps based upon venue size. Small stages I go with the combo and extension cab. Larger stages I go with the head and 2x12.

I am using both set ups without the rhythm clip engaged.

I prefer to use the overdrive/distortion from the amps. It sounds so incredible to my ears. I use the OCD to get more distortion and take it into that extremely dirty zone only for a couple of parts. Otherwise it's either the clean channel or the lead channel. When I engage the micro amp, there is no real boost in volume. Doesn't matter if it is in the loop or out front. There is definitely a gain increase from the micro amp. If I select the clean channel and engage the micro amp, it pushes the amp into full overdrive/distortion.

I am not finding a good solution here. If I use the overdrive/distortion pedals on the clean channel, the micro amp gives a great volume increase when engaged. I prefer the overdrive/distortion direct from the amp.

What am I missing?

I've tried engaging the rhythm clip and dial down the volume on the guitar to clean it up. The rhythm clip is so quiet that I have really turn the amp volume up to get it to a volume that is usable. When I switch to the lead channel, there is definitely a volume increase! However, trying to dial back to a clean sound when singing and soloing gets to be tricky for me to keep all that together.

What suggestions does anyone have? A different amp? Different pedals? I'm just beat from not finding any success.

This is what you NEED to do:

Marshall is different type amp, need to play it differently.
The KEY: is the volume control on the guitar. This is what you are missing.

Turn the guitar volume DOWN. Now the amp is clean.
Turn the guitar volume UP, now the amp overdrives (and compresses).

THIS is HOW you play a Marshall amp.
Forget distortion pedals, forget foot switches, forget multi channels.
Get rid of the effects. Especially distortion or "boost" pedals.
Set the amp wide open - and use your volume control on the guitar.
If you do not want to "re-learn..."
Then you have the wrong amp.

"...wah, compressor, OCD, Smartgate on the front end - Chorus, Delay/Reverb, Micro Amp...Wampler Ego Compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Fulldrive 3, Wampler Plexi Drive Deluxe, MXR Smartgate, MXR Micro Amp, EarthQuacker Dispatch Maker, TC Electronics Corona Chorus..."

Read This: You missed the point of playing a Marshall - entirely.

If you depend on "foot switches," you are going down the wrong road.
that is what you are missing.

YOU + AMP + GUITAR
concentrate on the best possible sound, without all that other stuff. Then, you are on the right path.

Effects:
Let the engineer add effects at the mixer. Don't try to mix your own sound from the stage.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Here's what I have to work with:

Marshall 2525c and a Marshall 1912 loaded with a Greenback
Marshall 2525h and a Marshall 2536 loaded with Vintage 30's
Pedals - Shure GLXD wireless receiver w/built in tuner, Dunlop Mini Wah, Wampler Ego Compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Fulldrive 3, Wampler Plexi Drive Deluxe, MXR Smartgate, MXR Micro Amp, EarthQuacker Dispatch Maker, TC Electronics Corona Chorus
Gibson Les Paul Standard with SD Alnico 2 Pros
Charvel San Dimas Pro Mod

I just recently joined a bar band to get out and play again for fun. I was told that I need to have my solos come out more on top of the mix. Yes, I actually error on the side of needing to be asked to turn up versus turn down.

I use the different amps based upon venue size. Small stages I go with the combo and extension cab. Larger stages I go with the head and 2x12.

What suggestions does anyone have? A different amp? Different pedals? I'm just beat from not finding any success.

Questions:
1. What other instruments are in your band? Are you the only guitarist?
2. What kind of music do you play?
3. How loud does your band play at practices and at gigs?
4. Does your band use a PA system at practice?
5. Do the places you play have a PA system?
6. Have you tried setting up both your amps for specific sounds and then switch between them using an ABY pedal?

I used to play in a band where I was the only guitarist. We played mostly alternative style music that didn't use much volume. For practices, I borrowed the drummer's 1x12 Ibanez 50 watt solid state combo and a few effects. In that situation, it was more than enough, but that's not always going to be the same situation for everyone, which is why I asked you questions 1 and 2. I've played in other bands that used two guitarist and where a more aggressive style music was featured; in that particular situation, a 1x12 50 watt combo did not work because I couldn't cut through mix of the other instruments and I couldn't spread my sound around with just a one 12 inch speaker.

One thing you can try is using both your 2525H and 2525C at the same time and switch between them using an ABY pedals or some other device capable of splitting your signal. Yes, I know how your like to use each amp only in certain situations, but given that you are having trouble cutting through the mix, and given that you have two amps that are capable of producing the same sound, it makes sense to try using them together. You can set one up to be your lead sound, set up the other one to a bit louder to be your solo sound and switch between them for rhythm and lead so that you are only playing through one at a time. You can also play through both of them at the same time for solos, but set one a little louder than the other.

Another thing you can do using your two amps is to play through both of them at the same time all the time, which would help spread your sound around the room more efficiently and perhaps make your sound cut through better. Then, if you wish, you can bring in one of your distortion/overdrive pedals to add a little color to your sound. I've used this method before with a 100 watt amps and a 15 watt amp and the results were incredible.

But if you insist on only using one amp at a gig, see if the places you play have a PA system and ask the sound man to boost your signal. Lots of places I've played had powerful PA systems, and the sound man would have the job of boosting my signal volume, which made both the sound man and me happy.

Also look at your speaker efficiency. I think the speakers in the 2536 are very powerful and efficient, but I'm not so sure about your one greenback speaker in your 1x12 1912. Greenbacks are great, but you might need greenbacks in a 2x12 or 4x12 configuration to spread around your sound more efficiently. Again, you need to evaluate your band situation to know whether the type and amount of speakers you are using will suffice. Everyone has different needs (as I'm sure there will be people who might disagree with me on some points), so it pays to look carefully at your situation.

Good luck and hope you figure things out to your satisfaction.

 

[Matt_Krush]

Finding a sound guy that will add effects at the right time and the right amount during a show?
Sure when you are Metallica level status, but at a bar or when you are part of a multi-band night.....aint gonna happen.
The Guitarist HAS to be his own sound engineer. Unless you are paying a dedicated manager/sound person to do it.

OP, there are some solutions, the EQ with adjustable level is a good fit.
As is effects pedals with adjustable output level (not just adjustable mix).

For my 2555x (or other single channel amps) I switched over to the MOOG minifooger delay. It has an adjustable output level and now I can get out front, whereas my Rocktron Reaction Delay would add more delay, it would not get me "louder" or the push to stand out.

I am an effects minimalist. I rely on the head for the base tone and distortion....reverb/delay for leads coloring, chorus for clean coloring, and EQ for global tone shaping. I use no drive/distortion pedals for my base tone (I have them...but don't use them).