Stumped, Perplexed, Frustrated And At A Dead End...

[johnfv]

...The Guitarist HAS to be his own sound engineer...

+1 This is the reality in many cases. For those that are fortunate enough to have a consistent sound engineer that is attentive and knows the material, good for you. I've had that luxury before but in my current gigs, I have to make sure my guitar is out front in the right spots and blending in to the mix at others.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Not sure where this whole talk of using a venue's sound man as "sound engineer" is coming from, but I know I didn't advocate that position. Maybe some of you need to be specific about what/who you're replying.

One possible solution I advocated depends on whether the OP has his rig microphoned through the house PA, and if so, asking the sound man to only boost his signal volume for certain parts of a song. I've seen it done and have read on this forum how others have taken a similar approach with successful outcomes usually. No other aspect of the OP/player's sound is being controlled by the house PA/sound man; all effects changes, channel switching, etc., is still controlled by the OP/musician, keeping the OP/musicians in charge of the sound he wants to create.

Again, I think the Vintage 30's in the 2536 2x12 cab are probably sufficient, but I'm not entirely sure since I don't know the type of music the OP plays, whether there's another guitar player in the band, whether a PA system is used ad practices/gigs, and how loud the band practices/gigs. All these factors are important, so just about every response in this thread (including mine) can only give advice based on limited information. And depending on those factors I mentioned in this paragraph, the OP might want to look into getting another amp that is more powerful than his current 2525H and 2525C. Depending on this situation, sometimes those little 25 watters really can't do much to compete with larger, more powerful rigs unless these little 25 watt amps are microphoned through a PA system or similar.

 

[royslead]

Not sure where this whole talk of using a venue's sound man as "sound engineer" is coming from, but I know I didn't advocate that position. Maybe some of you need to be specific about what/who you're replying.

Read ampmadscientist's post..


In a recording type situation, I see his point. In an average band playing an average venue situation; it most likely, won't happen. I have been fortunate in that the current band I am in, has a guy we hire for sound, that knows our material and who plays what, etc. Still, I would want control over my effects; however, I could see where putting the amount and levels of delay and reverb in his hands could sound great.

 

[Adrian R]

Hey all,

I'm absolutely beyond frustrated tonight. For the life of me I cannot get what I'm seeing in my head to happen live.

Here's what I have to work with:

Marshall 2525c and a Marshall 1912 loaded with a Greenback
Marshall 2525h and a Marshall 2536 loaded with Vintage 30's
Pedals - Shure GLXD wireless receiver w/built in tuner, Dunlop Mini Wah, Wampler Ego Compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Fulldrive 3, Wampler Plexi Drive Deluxe, MXR Smartgate, MXR Micro Amp, EarthQuacker Dispatch Maker, TC Electronics Corona Chorus
Gibson Les Paul Standard with SD Alnico 2 Pros
Charvel San Dimas Pro Mod

I just recently joined a bar band to get out and play again for fun. I was told that I need to have my solos come out more on top of the mix. Yes, I actually error on the side of needing to be asked to turn up versus turn down.

How I have the current line up - Shure receiver, wah, compressor, OCD, Smartgate on the front end - Chorus, Delay/Reverb, Micro Amp in the loop.

I use the different amps based upon venue size. Small stages I go with the combo and extension cab. Larger stages I go with the head and 2x12.

I am using both set ups without the rhythm clip engaged.

I prefer to use the overdrive/distortion from the amps. It sounds so incredible to my ears. I use the OCD to get more distortion and take it into that extremely dirty zone only for a couple of parts. Otherwise it's either the clean channel or the lead channel. When I engage the micro amp, there is no real boost in volume. Doesn't matter if it is in the loop or out front. There is definitely a gain increase from the micro amp. If I select the clean channel and engage the micro amp, it pushes the amp into full overdrive/distortion.

I am not finding a good solution here. If I use the overdrive/distortion pedals on the clean channel, the micro amp gives a great volume increase when engaged. I prefer the overdrive/distortion direct from the amp.

What am I missing?

I've tried engaging the rhythm clip and dial down the volume on the guitar to clean it up. The rhythm clip is so quiet that I have really turn the amp volume up to get it to a volume that is usable. When I switch to the lead channel, there is definitely a volume increase! However, trying to dial back to a clean sound when singing and soloing gets to be tricky for me to keep all that together.

What suggestions does anyone have? A different amp? Different pedals? I'm just beat from not finding any success.

Only three things that will be effective...the way it needs to be. I know man, I struggled with the same thing for a LONG time. This is what works... Everything else mentioned above for the most part will only be so effective.

1. A two or more channel amp with separate master volumes and a boost pedal. (if only two channels) Boost clean/moderate drive channel with pedal toggling on and off for clean and dirty, or just use the guitar's volume knob. Switch to lead channel for solos with that channel's master volume set to the appropriate level. WORKS AWESOMELY!! Best option.

2. A 900 MK3 or MK4 amp with separate boost volume; foot switchable. Very, very good!

3. If the amp has an FX loop, place good quality eq in the loop, eq to taste, toggle on/off for volume boost. Works great, but prefer a two channel amp for less chords, more seamless operation.

 

[Adrian R]

This is what you NEED to do:

Marshall is different type amp, need to play it differently.
The KEY: is the volume control on the guitar. This is what you are missing.

Turn the guitar volume DOWN. Now the amp is clean.
Turn the guitar volume UP, now the amp overdrives (and compresses).

THIS is HOW you play a Marshall amp.
Forget distortion pedals, forget foot switches, forget multi channels.
Get rid of the effects. Especially distortion or "boost" pedals.
Set the amp wide open - and use your volume control on the guitar.
If you do not want to "re-learn..."
Then you have the wrong amp.

"...wah, compressor, OCD, Smartgate on the front end - Chorus, Delay/Reverb, Micro Amp...Wampler Ego Compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Fulldrive 3, Wampler Plexi Drive Deluxe, MXR Smartgate, MXR Micro Amp, EarthQuacker Dispatch Maker, TC Electronics Corona Chorus..."

Read This: You missed the point of playing a Marshall - entirely.

If you depend on "foot switches," you are going down the wrong road.
that is what you are missing.

YOU + AMP + GUITAR
concentrate on the best possible sound, without all that other stuff. Then, you are on the right path.

Effects:
Let the engineer add effects at the mixer. Don't try to mix your own sound from the stage.

LOL...dude you crack me up...! You must be best friends with Jeff Dunham's Walter!



Seriously man, com on... The Rolls Royce *Merlin* engine was one of the greatest ever piston aircraft engines, but as great as it was, current turbine jet engines are far superior for the task and mission they must complete.

Dial up modems were GREAT, well until you wanted to start moving around gigabytes of data...

Same thing applies to guitar amplifiers man. Things move forward, not always for the best, but always forward. While single channel amps and the approach you've mentioned worked in the past, it came with a great deal of compromise. Newer amps have addressed these shortfalls with extreme success through evolution.

Walter is cool..no doubt, but a relic of the past. let it go.

 

[JimiRules]

3. If the amp has an FX loop, place good quality eq in the loop, eq to taste, toggle on/off for volume boost. Works great, but prefer a two channel amp for less chords, more seamless operation.

Even when I had my 2 channel Carvin Legacy, I had to throw an EQ in the loop to boost my volume for leads. I do agree that the 3 channel amps like my TSL, and amps that has multiple master volumes make it much easier.

I have noticed that the volume on my YJM increases when I step on my clean boosts. So I don't need an EQ in the loop for that amp.

 

[SG~GUY]

-OK, I'll add my 2 worthless cents just to add to the confusion-

-I basically agree with mad amp, use the least amount of crap in your signal chain, an EQ in the loop or in the front is an extremely powerful tool every guitarist should have in his arsenal,

-I used to have a big pedal board, then I had a big noise problem, so then you have to get a gate or suppressor, then your sucking tone, then i had to get a line level mixxer, then your taking your amp out of the equation and your core tone is actually your pedals not your amp,

-when dialing in your amp & later your EQ pedal, subtract what you don't like first, then add what you want, if not you'll cripple your tone and never be happy.

 

[EndGame00]

Having too much doohickey in your signal chain will definitely degrade your overall tone... if youre in a 2-guitar band, you most definitely going to need a boost when its time to solo...one big thing I learn over the years that adding more gain to an alreay gainy amp isnt gonna make the guitar stand out, the upper mids will.

 

[SG~GUY]

-i was gonna "LIKE" my own post but apparently that's frowned upon....

 

[kinleyd]

OK, done that for you. No problem.

-i was gonna "LIKE" my own post but apparently that's frowned upon....

 

[Adrian R]

The best boost is simply a volume boost. Mesas lead volume control is excellent. Not sure why Marshall does not have one. My modded DSL is over the top good at this. I boost both channels, step on the red od1 channel with it's m/volume 2 clicks higher then the 1st channel, WOW..dominating lead sound that cuts and stands out on top of the mix. Nothing else comes close! There is no way in hell any older single channel Marshall can do this!

 

[Solid State]

Thank you all for your experience. I picked up the MXR 10 band eq pedal today. Only had a few minutes to try it, but within those few minutes, I think this is the ticket. I left everything flat and bumped the volume slider and lowered the gain slider. Definitely pops now. I'll have to work with it more tomorrow before my gig tomorrow night.

Yeah, don't be afraid to cut the low frequencies also to really get those upper mids to pop. Lowering the gain is a pro move. You're going to be good to go now with that.

 

[johan.b]

The reason a boost in the loop don't work is because he's run out of headroom( see what he wrote about the microamp). It just distorts more. The only way to go is what Hotrat suggested. .lower the signal for rythm..or get a bigger amp..25watt in a rock band is about perfect if you want power tube distortion but it leaves you with nowhere to go if you need more. .
j

 

[Adrian R]

The reason a boost in the loop don't work is because he's run out of headroom( see what he wrote about the microamp). It just distorts more. The only way to go is what Hotrat suggested. .lower the signal for rythm..or get a bigger amp..25watt in a rock band is about perfect if you want power tube distortion but it leaves you with nowhere to go if you need more. .
j

That's something I've noticed. It also really boosts the mids inappropriately, hence why the eq is a good option using this route...but a separate volume foot switch is by far the best option...ESPECIALLY if u do not have the luxury of a large PA and sound tech.

 

[HotRats73]

The reason a boost in the loop don't work is because he's run out of headroom( see what he wrote about the microamp). It just distorts more. The only way to go is what Hotrat suggested. .lower the signal for rythm..or get a bigger amp..25watt in a rock band is about perfect if you want power tube distortion but it leaves you with nowhere to go if you need more. .
j

yeah. In my expirience you usually get only more distortion and and an unpleasant coloration (like a darker/muddier sound) when there's little or no headroom.

with my 2555x even if is a 100W I use an "un-boost" passive pedal beacuse I dont like the way the head sounds when boosted in the loop.

un-boosting its not a transparent operation too, you loose a bit of heights but nothing dramatic and most of the times make sense having a brighter sound for leads, when you disengage the pedal.