SV20 - Whats the best AC/DC settings you've dialed in?

[faerdi]

What do you think which amps and cabs were used on the Dirty Deeds Album?

 

[marshallmellowed]

Exactly. And his tone didn’t change noticeably pre to post wireless unit. Wasn’t there a video from Paris in 79 where his wireless goes down and he uses an instrument cable for the rest of the gig ?? Still sounds like Angus. And for those who say the wireless adds gain you just can’t get from the amp, that Paris show would have to be one of the most gained up I’ve ever heard Angus.

As we've seen with the VH1 threads, you can go down a rabbit hole on some of this stuff, and some seem to like spending their time doing that. I just look at what was used, get close with what I've got, "close enough for government work", and play the guitar. Otherwise, where does it stop (what pick does Angus use?, what impedance is his guitar cable?, what was the humidity in the room when they recorded BIB?....).

 

[svinyard]

As we've seen with the VH1 threads, you can go down a rabbit hole on some of this stuff, and some seem to like spending their time doing that. I just look at what was used, get close with what I've got, "close enough for government work", and play the guitar. Otherwise, where does it stop (what pick does Angus use?, what impedance is his guitar cable?, what was the humidity in the room when they recorded BIB?....).

I think it's cool when someone is really interested in something and does a deep dive on it. I'm not capable of all that in that VH thread, but it's interesting. Being snide about it is kind of lame.

 

[marshallmellowed]

When chasing tones, one thing to think about is, no 2 people hear things "exactly" the same. Before starting work for the government, just out of college, I spent a few years installing, repairing, and calibrating audiology equipment (sound proof booths, hearing test equipment...). When you look at all the variables in one's hearing, there can be more variation than in some of these miniscule variations in guitar gear. One guy might hear a tone and say "wow, that's dead on", and the next guy, "nah, way too much treble". That's "in the room", not even taking into account secondary listening devices (PC speakers, studio monitors...). Aside from making it sound right to "you", it can become a futile effort.

 

[What?]

It's pretty obvious which of Angus's tracks are running through an overloaded mic preamp. Some tracks are, some aren't. Maybe some are in between too.

 

[79 2203]

What do you think which amps and cabs were used on the Dirty Deeds Album?

Probably 1959’s, maybe a Superbass for Malcolm. Probably Blackback G12M’s but maybe Greenbacks.

 

[freefrog]

I think anyone familiar with the sound of classic Marshalls, and is into ACDC tones, has always known there’s something besides the gear going on with the LTBR sound. It’s obvious to me it was a conscious effort by the producers to give it an aggressive, in your face vibe, and you’re not gonna get that just from changing to MV amps or using an un-broken in Blackback.
But once you filter out the influence of the studio, it still sounds like a SG/Gretsch straight into a 4 holer to me.

Now that dust has settled a bit... my point was just to recall in a light and friendly way that a sound perceived as "gainy" in a recording (live in Paris included) is not necessarily due to the amps alone.

Even a guitar straigth to an amp doesn't obtain quite the same response from its circuit when cable capacitance varies with cable length... To me, that's why Shaffer did add a pre-gain control to his wireless system.

And to come back to BiB: 44 years ago, I played with guitar direct to amp. A couple of times, I've even pushed a NMV stack in my bedroom (!), close to the speakers, in a desparate attempt to favour natural feedback. Volume was deafening, the whole house was shaking... but to my overloaded ears, the sound was less "gainy" and had noticeably less sustain than in the BiB tracks (albeit my LP copy had high gain pickups).

I wish I could come back in time to understand and solve such failed attempts. All I can do is to testify that in MY experience, guitar direct to cranked amp don't necessarily suffice for BiB tracks. Mileages may vary...

 

[79 2203]

Now that dust has settled a bit... my point was just to recall in a light and friendly way that a sound perceived as "gainy" in a recording (live in Paris included) is not necessarily due to the amps alone.

Even a guitar straigth to an amp doesn't obtain quite the same response from its circuit when cable capacitance varies with cable length... To me, that's why Shaffer did add a pre-gain control to his wireless system.

And to come back to BiB: 44 years ago, I played with guitar direct to amp. A couple of times, I've even pushed a NMV stack in my bedroom (!), close to the speakers, in a desparate attempt to favour natural feedback. Volume was deafening, the whole house was shaking... but to my overloaded ears, the sound was less "gainy" and had noticeably less sustain than in the BiB tracks (albeit my LP copy had high gain pickups).

I wish I could come back in time to understand and solve such failed attempts. All I can do is to testify that in MY experience, guitar direct to cranked amp don't necessarily suffice for BiB tracks. Mileages may vary...

But I don’t think anyone actually thinks LTBR is any more gainy than anything previous, just that it’s more edgy and aggressive. A more gainy ACDC sound(or any guitar sound) will generally be smoother, which is the opposite of what I hear on LTBR. On the other hand, the Paris video is gainier and smoother than much of their shows from that era. Just listen to how long the chords sustain. That’s a cranked amp and I’d bet money that gain had very little to do with how it was recorded. There’s a huge difference in gain/tone between a 1959/87 on 6 and the same amp on 8-10. The brightcap smooths out after 6 and the OT saturates, as does the power tubes and speakers.
And younger you cranking up the halfstack and hearing the BIB album as being gainier, is something every young player goes through. How many people here have heard inexperienced players dialing in WAY too much gain for ACDC, or done as much themselves ?? I know I have.

 

[freefrog]

But I don’t think anyone actually thinks LTBR is any more gainy than anything previous, just that it’s more edgy and aggressive. A more gainy ACDC sound(or any guitar sound) will generally be smoother, which is the opposite of what I hear on LTBR. On the other hand, the Paris video is gainier and smoother than much of their shows from that era. Just listen to how long the chords sustain. That’s a cranked amp and I’d bet money that gain had very little to do with how it was recorded. There’s a huge difference in gain/tone between a 1959/87 on 6 and the same amp on 8-10. The brightcap smooths out after 6 and the OT saturates, as does the power tubes and speakers.
And younger you cranking up the halfstack and hearing the BIB album as being gainier, is something every young player goes through. How many people here have heard inexperienced players dialing in WAY too much gain for ACDC, or done as much themselves ?? I know I have.

English being not my mother tongue, maybe I understand words differently but...

Again, talking about LTBR was just my way to recall that a recording reflects more than guitars and amps, even when it comes to perceived gain structure and distortion...

The basis of this thought being what SoloDallas wrote on the Metropoulos forum:
"Do you hear... solid state distortion as well as tube distortion? Yes you do. And do you know why? Because the mic preamp has gone into considerate, conscious (wanted) distortion while tracking. It was meant as an effect and seemingly, it worked out".
As if a distortion effect was added after the amps rather than before them, IOW. Which doesn't imply it's the same kind of distortion to me than in other recordings.:-D

Regarding the live in Paris: I've not suggested it sounds like LTBR, so. I was just implicitly asking to myself by thinking out loud in post 59 what had been the mics, preamps, mixing board, tape recorder used for this recording, with which compression/limiter devices, but also which amount of mastered guitar signal was or not reinjected in the sound system on stage and to which extent it might have interacted with feedback / sustain + what we perceive as gain when listening...

On the sound in the live in Paris, "gainier and smoother than much of their shows from that era"... Agreed.
Now, was it the same bridge pickup with or without wireless system? Plugged in a modified amp or not? Was there some preamping device between cable and input, in order to match what was obtained with the Schaffer?
I don't know, I was not there.
Simply, when I "listen to how long the chords sustain", I hear precisely what I couldn't obtain personally from a mere cranked stack one year later.

And finally, about the gainy smooth sound: when a cable from guitar to amp is long enough to create a capacitive load of several nanoFarads, the resonant peak of passive humbuckers shifts down in the hi-mids, exactly like it would do with a hi-gain pickup. Far to only promote the mids and to filter out high frequencies, it gives some hair to the signal and what sounds like compression too (I've done lab tests about that while working for a pickups maker).

That being said to express my thoughts and not to drown my readers in any petty lesson: we are all guitar geeks so I share what passes through my old rambling mind. ;-)

 

[paul-e-mann]

I do wonder about pickups I guess. But I don't have a lot of experience there. What year is your 61? Does it have those Gibson 60's Burst Buckers in it? Mine aren't bad actually. It depends on the amp a bit. The pickups I have (OEM lightly potted, reverse wound whatever) are hot but not insane. If I play my guitar tight and hit them hard (without adding in lots of other strings), it def does the trick and doesn't muddy up. Turning the guitar volume down like Angus did for Rhythm helps bring them under control a lot too. For the solo's, cranked....it's a plexi, I've got to be precise or it runs away from me lol. Especially with the Amp cranked without attenuator...it's a whole other rowdy beast standing in front of the little 1965 4x10 lol! Fun tho for sure.

Perhaps contradicting myself earlier. I went and checked out Solo Dallas's Back in Black cover (which is INSANELY good with Tommy in there). They are obviously running their 50w JTM50/EL34 amp...BUT the settings are interesting!!

Presence - freaking 8?!
Bass - 0
Mid - 4
Treble - 9
High Treble (volume) - 6
Using their Sheffer Replica thing too.

Some of you mentioned a lot of presence, maybe that's spot on (for Angus, not sounding like the Band as a whole).

Obviously that JTM50 is a bit warmer than my SV20. I tried those settings (diff amp i know..) but it wasn't half bad! I added in more Bass (2-4) to account for the SV20 not having as much low-end. Interesting tone for sure. I ordered a Storm pedal today too. Should be fun. I shot those guys an email asking for the same thing. I'll see what they say. Fil/Dries are the best there's ever been to covering that tone in BiB. I know they've played with and modded the SV as well.

The trick is dont get too hung up on someone elses tone, dial in the best approximation a tone that you like and rock on!

 

[sellen]

isolated tracks from album and live album is hard to recreate. The guitar has gone through class A studio gear . I have given up to sound 100% like, just dial in what I like.
These days my settings are (1987x)
P 6
B 3
M 7
T 5
No jumpering
Volume 6
Made this YouTube video yesterday with these settings on Thunderstruck

ThunderStruck AC-DC "Cover"

 

[faerdi]

Just swapped the stock V-Type speakers of my SV212 out for some Mojotone BV25M (Greenback reissues) and the cab now sounds so good! High Voltage vibes for days!
Fun fact: absolutely no Schaffer Replica needed.
Just a SG, a SV20H and a SV212.
(Settings: everything at 5, except High Treble at 6.)

 

[faerdi]

Does the SC20 deliver any interesting 2203 AC/DC sounds the SV20 can‘t do?

 

[svinyard]

Does the SC20 deliver any interesting 2203 AC/DC sounds the SV20 can‘t do?

NM I think I read your comment backwards. Maybe the SC20 is a bit better at those 1977-ish ACDC tones where they used a 2203? I dunno. I've played the SC20 doing a bunch of ACDC riffs. It's a bit different obviously and it didn't hit the same AC/DC spot as the SV.

You should check out the Storm pedal if you are playing a lot AC/DC closer to the BiB stuff. It's helpful in a number of ways and a great pedal for general tone bending in general without stealing the stuff that makes your Plexi great.

 

[svinyard]

I'm kind of settling on the following (for posterities sake) I think. My chain is pretty darn midrange focused: SG 61>Storm>SV20>1965 and the SV itself is a bit more midrangy than a 1987/1959 (so says Johan at least).

I liked the flavor of the RigRun settings (all on three and 1 presence) but the clarity of some of youtube guys settings (4 bass, 4 mids, 6 treble, 0 presence). With that in mind and the more mid focused amp/cab, I kind of like the following for BiB style. I want the "Donnnk" for that opening BiB Em chord but also the twangy-but sizzling A & D chords along with bite in the solo. I found if I leave in too much mids, they kind of overshadow things.

Settings all 1-10 unless specificed as "o'clock"
Presence - 8 (adds bite and highs)
Bass - 5ish (keeps the lowend hard hitting but not drowning out the highs)
Mids - 3
Treble - 5
Volume - 6 I can go lower but then it looses some balls.
Unjumpered
Storm pedal: gain-3 o'clock, limiter 11 o'clock, output 9 o'clock
Guitar tone: 8ish

 

[faerdi]

I'm kind of settling on the following (for posterities sake) I think. My chain is pretty darn midrange focused: SG 61>Storm>SV20>1965 and the SV itself is a bit more midrangy than a 1987/1959 (so says Johan at least).

I liked the flavor of the RigRun settings (all on three and 1 presence) but the clarity of some of youtube guys settings (4 bass, 4 mids, 6 treble, 0 presence). With that in mind and the more mid focused amp/cab, I kind of like the following for BiB style. I want the "Donnnk" for that opening BiB Em chord but also the twangy-but sizzling A & D chords along with bite in the solo. I found if I leave in too much mids, they kind of overshadow things.

Settings all 1-10 unless specificed as "o'clock"
Presence - 8 (adds bite and highs)
Bass - 5ish (keeps the lowend hard hitting but not drowning out the highs)
Mids - 3
Treble - 5
Volume - 6 I can go lower but then it looses some balls.
Unjumpered
Storm pedal: gain-3 o'clock, limiter 11 o'clock, output 9 o'clock
Guitar tone: 8ish

What speakers are in this cab?

 

[svinyard]

What speakers are in this cab?

OG 1984 Celestion G10L-35 and UK Greenbacks. 4x10"

 

[JDW3]

I thought Donnington was Mesa Boogies?