The All Tube Path, Non Channel Switching Thread?

[spacerocker]

A diode, op amps, or transistor in a guitar amp circuit is NOT an "ALL TUBE PATH"! now tell me your JVM doesn't have any of those components in the circuit.

Ok - The JVM does not have any diodes, op-amps, or transistors in it's signal path. As I said before the circuit topology is al-valve. Even the effects loop is valve driven.

I am pretty sure a normal JVM amplifier's main signal path is "all tube".

It is.......

I may be wrong, but I'm don't think JVMs have SS in the the path, at least not for most most of the modes. SS devices for switching or rectification are not in the signal path.

You are correct - the JVM's don't have any SS components in the signal path - in ANY of the modes.......

 

[Conghaille]

I think there's an underlying philosophy (at least one) here that may explain some demarcation. Discussions have included the notion of the pure signal as it enters and traverses the amplifier (and elsewhere).

Personally, I think all of it is factored and none of it is either unimportant or necessarily bad. If you get the sound you are trying to dial in, who cares if it's from a plexi or an 8" SS combo recorded in a styrofoam box. The sound is the sound. It isn't better because I did it using the authentic gear that my heroes used.

That being said, I like some things said here, such as what I observe as the lack of awareness of control using the volume/tones on your instrument. I know a few of musicians who haven't dialed off 10-10-10-10 for years. But still, that's my preference. If they want to waste money on volume pedals, get EQ pedals on top the the EQ on their amps and guitars that they ignore, and buy 9 boutique dist stomp boxes instead of learning to dial in tone, hey that's their thing.

I'm not so much a gear purist--though I love gear--but I WILL find the tone I want to lay down, even if I have to daisy chain 10 pedals, drop my combo into a cavern, or rip out all the junk and maybe take a chance on hearing what Marshall, Fender, or others had in mind when they made the things.

TTFN

 

[marshallmellowed]

Yeah you are, you're just King Tut king of denial. I'll be waiting in anticipation for your, "my JVM is down" thread.

Your comments have become of absolutely no value to me. I mean, look at the childish nonsense you just typed, zero value. Your time would be better spent educating yourself on the amps you're slamming.

 

[ricksteruk]

My only "pure" valve amp is a Laney, and I think even that has op amps in the Reverb or FX loop drive circuits - but I really have a hankering for either a 2204, a 1987 or maybe a Vintage Modern.. ( not sure if that is allowed on this thread - but I feel it's very much the same sort of animal ). Single channel amps are classic rock

However, there is a problem with single channel tube amps and using just the guitar volume to clean up.... There is only one way of doing it... You set your guitar at 10.. dial in your loudest most distorted solo tone. Then as you roll back the guitar volume the amp will get less distorted and a bit quieter.. maybe making a good crunch sound.. then roll back a bit more... it cleans up to a breaking up sort of sound and gets a bit quieter overall... finally just before the volume is at 0 you get a rather quiet and completely clean sound.

What happens if you want the clean sound to be louder than the crunch sound? How do you do that? . . . You can't.

If you have a good sound man you can ask him to turn you up in the PA at that point. If not.. buy a channel switching amp.

I did the sound tonight for a band. The guitarist had a Marshall combo.. think it was a very old JMP. Didn't quite recognise it. Might have been a 2x10.. a 1974 maybe.... Anyhow.. I had to ride the fader on his channel quite a lot so that when he soloed you could actually hear him. See.. the solo tone is only fractionally louder than the crunch tone if you roll your volume knob. It's just more saturated.. not a lot louder. I was needing to pull up the fader by like 7dB to get it to cut over the rest of the band properly, and then pull it down again afterwards so you could then hear the singer.

That's my thoughts on the subject for tonight

 

[T.J.]

I use this '72 ..... I like it !

 

[spacerocker]

However, there is a problem with single channel tube amps and using just the guitar volume to clean up.... There is only one way of doing it... You set your guitar at 10.. dial in your loudest most distorted solo tone. Then as you roll back the guitar volume the amp will get less distorted and a bit quieter.. maybe making a good crunch sound.. then roll back a bit more... it cleans up to a breaking up sort of sound and gets a bit quieter overall... finally just before the volume is at 0 you get a rather quiet and completely clean sound.

What happens if you want the clean sound to be louder than the crunch sound? How do you do that? . . . You can't.

If you have a good sound man you can ask him to turn you up in the PA at that point. If not.. buy a channel switching amp.

Yes - this is absolutely true - and the inherent disadvantage of single channel amps. That is why there are so many "how can I get a good boost for solos with my Marshall <insert single channel amp name>" here!

Of course, there are some people who play maybe Jazz, blues or whatever can get by by rolling back the guitar volume for rhythm, and get a low-gain crunch sound, then turn it up full for lead! That works if you are happy with a clean-ish crunch for rhythm, or only need a small volume increase for lead. I get that.

But what happens if you want a full-on rock rhythm sound, and a much louder, screaming lead tone? As you say if you have a FOH man, you can kick in some sort of tranny pedal, and he can crank you up in the mix (if he even notices that you have switched from rhythm to lead!) - but otherwise you are stuck. And what if you want your clean sound as loud as your distorted rhythm sound? - these are the inherent compromises that come with a single channel amp - and ultimately what drove me away after 23 years of playing through one! Now (with my modded JVM) - I get the same great sound I always got from my 2203, plus all the multi-channel benefits! If you don't need multi-channel features, then fine! - but for me they allow me to get so much more out of my sound and playing!

 

[Matt_Krush]

No, you just have voltage drops across components AND phase issues. And with more components---"Pandora's Box". Solid state switches have voltage drops, failure issues, etc. And you say that doesn't affect the overall signal? Some of the multi channel aficionados here would have everyone believe that these circuits preserve signal better than a single channel amp with less B.S. in the circuit. Facts speak louder than words. The number of threads that I've read regarding multiple channel amps having problems far outweigh those of the single channel vintage amps. It's called built-in-obsolescence. So not only are multi channel amps a pain in the arse to repair but more costly and time consuming to repair. I'd rather be reading than posting, "my multi channel amp is down can anyone help?" threads. So to those die hard aficionados good luck to you because you're going to need it

Your comments have become of absolutely no value to me. I mean, look at the childish nonsense you just typed, zero value. Your time would be better spent educating yourself on the amps you're slamming.

Having a higher probability of failure has nothing to do with signal preservation. The guitar signal does not pass through each tube and switching circuit and finally come to a speaker. The signal is stopped at the first device (tube) and it is recreated from the power supply. That signal goes to the next device and is stopped....and again...and again...Each time larger than the one before it. How well the amplifier can recreate that incoming signal is up to the design architecture and the tube or transistor. Voltage drop is irrelevant as it can be compensated for at the next gain stage. Phasing is not an issue unless you are driving an inductive motor. While a speaker technically can be considered one, it is too small of a load to be an issue.

I think someone has a misunderstanding of how an amplifier, amplifies.

 

[mickeydg5]

If I recall correctly a statement similar to this has been posted 100s maybe even 1000s of times.
"90% of all failures are tube, check the tubes, or maybe the fuse."

I am just saying, one does read that a lot on these forums.

Did anyone mention a deluxe woody yet?

 

[wakjob]

I have owned, or currently own just about every type of guitar amp imaginable.

Debating the very subtle nuances and differences between each type is pointless, pointless to the point of being a product loyalty bias. Like everybody has this emotional and passionate skin in the game.

"Pepsi! No...Coke!"
"AT&T! No...MCI!"
"Arctic Cat! No...Ski-Doo!"
"Ford! No...Chevy!"
"Modeling! No...Tubes!"

Whatever... it's all just so silly.

I get just as good of a classic Marshall sound/tone out of JCM900's, 3203 Artist's,
8100 Valvestates, and 2205/2210's as I have outta my 2204/2203/1987/1959's.

Twiddle some knobs and they all sound so relative it's laughable.

 

[Codyjohns]

My '68 Plexi gets the job done for me, single channel and all.

 

[GT08]

My only "pure" valve amp is a Laney, and I think even that has op amps in the Reverb or FX loop drive circuits - but I really have a hankering for either a 2204, a 1987 or maybe a Vintage Modern.. ( not sure if that is allowed on this thread - but I feel it's very much the same sort of animal ). Single channel amps are classic rock

However, there is a problem with single channel tube amps and using just the guitar volume to clean up.... There is only one way of doing it... You set your guitar at 10.. dial in your loudest most distorted solo tone. Then as you roll back the guitar volume the amp will get less distorted and a bit quieter.. maybe making a good crunch sound.. then roll back a bit more... it cleans up to a breaking up sort of sound and gets a bit quieter overall... finally just before the volume is at 0 you get a rather quiet and completely clean sound.

What happens if you want the clean sound to be louder than the crunch sound? How do you do that? . . . You can't.

If you have a good sound man you can ask him to turn you up in the PA at that point. If not.. buy a channel switching amp.

I did the sound tonight for a band. The guitarist had a Marshall combo.. think it was a very old JMP. Didn't quite recognise it. Might have been a 2x10.. a 1974 maybe.... Anyhow.. I had to ride the fader on his channel quite a lot so that when he soloed you could actually hear him. See.. the solo tone is only fractionally louder than the crunch tone if you roll your volume knob. It's just more saturated.. not a lot louder. I was needing to pull up the fader by like 7dB to get it to cut over the rest of the band properly, and then pull it down again afterwards so you could then hear the singer.

That's my thoughts on the subject for tonight

Very good post.
However, one work around/compromise.

Set a loud CRUNCH tone at 10 on the guitar volume, then it will clean up sooner as the volume is rolled off.....The result, a better louder clean.
Then hit a stomp box or two for the boost/ lead/distorted tone.
No longer an "all tube path" now though.
Rock on.

 

[ricksteruk]

So now, can this thread get back to it's original intention.. sharing the love for classic non switching amps.
The OP clearly stated he knew why people need and use switching amps

 

[Trapland]

One thing bout that... When I switched from Fender to Marshall in the early 90s, the Marshalls of the day did NOT sound like a Marshall on 10 unless it was a Marshall on 10. The JCM800s, 900s even the 6100s did not sound like a cranked Marshall at low to medium volumes. They sounded good, but different. If you wanted that sound, you either played cranked, used an attenuator which lost weren't great or lived with the different preamp heavy sound. Modded amps sounded excellent, but still not like a dimed JMP. I bought jcm800s, about every 900 head, and a 6100 and liked them all, but still liked a JMP cranked with a good attenuator better (for what *I* was looking for).

Fast forward to this millennium.....Marshall has nailed the cranked power stage sound at manageable volumes! The DSLs, JVMs, AFD, YJM....all do that sound well now though using different methods. I still prefer my non-channel switchers cranked up, because I learned how to use them.... But it's a great time to be a guitar player, tube amps of today are amazing.


Now... How do you get versatility from your non-channel switcher tube amp? I set up so my neck pickup (on an R9 or similar), is near clean at 5 on the guitar. I use weak pickups. At that point I can get from quieter clean to saturated for solos with pickup selection and guitar volumes. It works for me.

What I cannot get is louder clean than crunch, or multiple volumes of high saturation for rhythm and solos. For those I either have to add an amp, or use a channel switcher. My choice of amp definitely has limits.

 

[30watt]

I like women....

 

[T.J.]

My '68 Plexi gets the job done for me, single channel and all.

What pedals are ya usin' ... sounds KooL !

 

[Codyjohns]

What pedals are ya usin' ... sounds KooL !

Thank you Bro!!

I'm not using any pedals at all, just plugged straight into the amp head.

 

[Mystic38]

yeah, they pretty much all do..

to make it more interesting (or complicated) is the reality that the gain of a tube amp is fixed and does not vary.. for example, 2 12ax7 stages gives a gain of 10,000 and twiddling knobs does not change that. What does vary by turning the "gain" knob is the amount of signal applied to the input of a gain stage. .

sure semantics i know..but since the thread is getting along so smoothly!....lol

Some amp manufacturers add to the confusion in terms as well. On my 900 sl-x the control that increases the distortion is labeled gain..its increasing the gain im sure but also increasing the distortion...should be labeled distortion.

 

[EL 34]

I'm curious if anyone else loves Marshalls that meet the above criteria exclusively. For many, many years this has been my personal benchmark of whether an amp is likely to stay in my stable awhile, or if I'm going to pass it along like a rented mule.

I don't care if it has more than one input like a JTM or JMP, or even different input sensitivity and I don't care if it has a master or not, I just need to be able to go from near clean to near full saturation with only guitar volumes. I rarely find channel switchers or diode clippers to work for me.

For at least 20 years plus it's been JMP 4 holers and basic 6 knob master amps for me. I prefer 50ish watts, but Superleads sound great too.

I get why people do it with modern convenience, but I like what I like. Anyone else?

i'm in the same boat. six knobs, two or four inputs and no channel switching is all i need from a marshall. i also don't need an effects loop.

 

[Trapland]

Thank you Bro!!

I'm not using any pedals at all, just plugged straight into the amp head.

He's being too modest.... MichaelRT also knows how to voice an amp like nobody's business.

 

[mickeydg5]

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