The particularities about Eddie Van Halen plexi 12301

[Timo V]

The metal pick..secret device.

Absolutely part of the receipe. I use Dava stainless steel picks, they give glassy, angry and barking attack that at least to me sound great.

Edit. My memory failed, it's nickel silver, not SS.

 

[Mastershon]

All interesting stuff and cool input. Great fun!

 

[chocol8]

Lowering a plexi to 90 volts with a variac doesn't have a huge effect on the sound. Lots of people who tried that will tell you.

Not "huge" but it does change the headroom and feel of the amp. Most of the difference between the 50 and 100 watt models, which most people consider noticeable, is due to lower voltages in the 50's and not the 2 vs 4 power tubes.

 

[chocol8]

evh would probably sell more amps if they opened the guts of his head and made a reproduction of it...

The head as it existed in 1977 hasn't existed since the late 70's. It has had a lot of hands in it and no one believes current pictures are gospel.

 

[pittbull]

The photo that Derrick111 posted of Ed’s Marshall heads is from the 1978 japan tour

 

[pat_rocks]

The head as it existed in 1977 hasn't existed since the late 70's. It has had a lot of hands in it and no one believes current pictures are gospel.

I'm pretty sure that josé made a schematic or a layout of his amp. Where those ended up ? that's another question ^^...

 

[XTRXTR]

I remember seeing Van Halen on VH II tour I was about three rows out and saw some shining things on his finger tips. Maybe it was super glossy metal finger nail polish and super bright spot light. It sure looked like a banjo style finger pick but bent over his strumming hand tips. I thought it was interesting. I always wondered what he was doing. Using his hammer on harmonics like in the song intro Women In Love. I never attempted to use anything like that but wondered what it would be like. I imagine it to be hard to work with.

That was as close as I ever got at any of their concerts.

I have bags of regular triangular steel picks. They rip up the strings but the sound is awesome. For performances I use them. At home I use the thickest Turtle Purple Dunlops. Those steel picks last forever no bends or scratches. I've used quarters too but they are too rounded for picking.

https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/juststrings_2268_288507497

 

[LoudStroud]

It has been confirmed that EVH plexi was stock by many people like Suhr, Friedman and even George metropoulos.

So people began to think that evh had a regular 68' 12000 series and the story ends there. However as you may know about vintage gear, it hapenned that sometimes the guys at marshall's were short on components and used other parts resulting in variations in amplifiers and in tone. this is what supposedely happened to EVH plexi.

Even if EVH plexi is stock, many values have nothing to do with a stock plexi of the 12000 series. Here is a board values of the EVH plexi (in the yellow rectangle) according to pictures of the Suhr Sl68. The major differences with a regular 12000 series have been circled in yellow.

View attachment 119716

This is the "regular" (there had some variations of it) version of the 12000 series :

View attachment 119712

The principal mod that was done to this plexi was the replacement of the middle pot by a 50k mid pot instead of the regular 25k : this was confirmed by george metropoulos and Friedman.
Now for the 5000 pf bright cap it is supposed that it was used as some models of sl68 have it and others don't.
the last mod was the use of (sylvania) 6ca7 fat bottle tubes a variation of the el34.

Dave friedman recieved eddies plexi to repair the transformer. He found a stock plexi with the same transformer and rewound the wire on the original one. here is what Dave friedman apparently said in metropoulos forums about eddies plexi :

Post by RACKSYSTEMS » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:40 pm

Split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
All coupling caps are 0.022uF,Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF

470k mixer resistors
500pf [red out of 69 amp] mixer bypass cap
Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf
33k/560pF lemco tone stack combo
100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
220k bias splitter resistors
0.1 uF cap on presence control
.022uf output couplers

filtering is
2] 100uf's f&t in series mains
2] 32uf's f&t in series screens
1]100uf lcr phase inverter
1] dual 33 x 33 f&t preamp

Thank you @pat_rocks for cranking up this conversation and consolidating all of this info. Quite a lot of angles it has taken! Some of this info had been shared with me years back by one of my Marshall enthusiast road techs and I've since experimented on my old beater '70 small box 1986 Bass 50 following the info about the fabled EVH plexi.

Here's a listing of where I ended up with mine. It does not follow exactly to Friedman's autopsy of EVH's plexi, being that I was working with a Bass 50. But this is how my amp remains, as it sounds awesome and totally baked....

Split cathode V1a 250uF/820, V1b .68/820
All coupling caps are 0.022uF

No bright cap on CH 1 Vol pot.

470k mixer resistors
500pf (red dogbone) mixer bypass cap
250uf/ 25v bypass cap on V2a
56k/250pF (red dogbone) tone stack combo
100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
220k bias splitter resistors
0.1 uF cap on presence control
.1uf output couplers

With this Bass 50, the components making the most significant impact on the tone and feel are the split cathode input and the 250uf cap across V2a (being a Bass 50, it does not have the .68uf in parallel.) The latter opened up the amp's tone in a big way and added that element of "crazy" heard in VH's tone.

When I first fired it up on the bench after doing the mods, I played my '57 LP Special thru it and even with that guitar it has the EVH sound. It was automatic. The perfectionist wold split hairs over it, but the character is definitely there, I'll play any of my favorite riffs from VH's 1st album and it's like, "Dayum, there it is."

It has its stock Bass 50 56k/250pf tone stack combo, the .1uf output couplers and all .022 couplers up front, no .0022 on the bright channel.

I experimented with various value bright caps across the Vol 1 pot...In conjunction with the 250uf cathode bypass cap, I decided it wasn't needed. Didn't really add anything. Actually, without the bright cap, the amp has more versatility...brilliant spanking clean tones with a Tele or Strat at volume settings btw 4 - 6, then above it begins to seriously growl. Great with pedals at the lower levels. And of course, dime out all of the controls and you've got the EVH tone.

With the 50 watt power stage, the .1uf output coupling caps make a huge difference enabling a full low end response. compared to my stock '71 small box Lead 50.

End result is this amp has become my go-to for recording and gigging, paired with a 212 cab loaded with early 70's G12M's. Just an all around great head.

 

[chocol8]

The bright cap doesn't do anything when the volume is where it should be...on 10!

 

[dro]

Sorry to be me (the Asshole in the room)
But give it a rest.
The search should be for your own tone.
I can get EVH tones, or Angus tones, or Ritchie Blackmore tones any day of the week.
All I have to do is play a record. A record. 12" record. Not an MP3
When I fire up my amps. I'm looking for MY tone.

 

[pat_rocks]

Sorry to be me (the Asshole in the room)
But give it a rest.
The search should be for your own tone.
I can get EVH tones, or Angus tones, or Ritchie Blackmore tones any day of the week.
All I have to do is play a record. A record. 12" record. Not an MP3
When I fire up my amps. I'm looking for MY tone.

well think of it like that : we are more like archeologists of guitar playing.

many think that evh is the ultimate tone so we try to keep it alive. I mean there are other exceptionnal tones-


I believe it seems elusive to try to get your own tone those days : Nowadays everyone sounds like everyone because we only buy factory spec made amps and factory specds pickups. Because most of them are made out of pcb it makes it hard for guitarists to mod amps. We don't try weird things and mods like the guitarists did in the past. Want it or not guitar days are over : its past days of glory were the 70's 80's nowadays its more have fun at home, become a maestro with your home digital setup or become a fart sounds master (oops i meant djent).

Because people lacked gain and gear in the past they tried weird shit to get more out of their guitars. By trying weird shit they unexcpectedly created exceptionnal tones. For example the kinks cut some speakers in their cabinet and many other bands and guitarists had tons of tricks and weird devices. We nowadays have almost everything packed and in small boxes so it is extremely rare that someone by accident creates an exeptionnal tone.

another important thing back in the days almost every sound device or at least many of them was tube based and want it or not tube based sounds just sound different not as clean and as perfect and that's a part of the mojo of sounding exclusive.

 

['2204']

I would think there`s also alot of great info at the MetroAmpForum`s VH`s Plexi discussions:

Eddie Van Halen Amp Builders - Metropoulos Forum

General EVH & Van Halen Discussion - Metropoulos Forum

 

[EFR]

Sorry for the side tangent...Please be careful using nickel picks. I sometimes wonder if besides a lifetime of smoking if sticking his pick in his mouth with nickel on it, either from the pick itself or the strings contributed to his getting tongue cancer. My sister in law passed away around the same time as Eddie from a tounge peircing reacting to the metal and it made me wonder. I switched to mostly stainless strings, but on my guitars with nickel strings I make sure to wash my hands after playing and don"t stick picks in my mouth any more.

 

[pittbull]

The Metro Amp Forum all the guys that gave great info are no longer there, George Metropolis is a nice guy but the guy who ran his forum was banned happy and the site went down the tubes

 

[LoudStroud]

Sorry to be me (the Asshole in the room)
But give it a rest.
The search should be for your own tone.
I can get EVH tones, or Angus tones, or Ritchie Blackmore tones any day of the week.
All I have to do is play a record. A record. 12" record. Not an MP3
When I fire up my amps. I'm looking for MY tone.

Part of finding your own tone is by exploring other peoples tones. Just because I’ve cracked the code on some of my heroes’ tones doesn’t at all mean I’m going to play or sound like them.

Just like some of your favorite hit songs were written using somebody else’s song as a starting point. It may have started sounding like a rip off, but once completed, entirely its own. A songwriting technique used more often than most people realize.

And how frickin cool is it that we can learn about these amp mods on a forum and try them for ourselves? I can guarantee you nobody is going to hear me play through my “EVH modded” Marshall and say “Oh man that guy’s a tool. His amp sounds just like Eddie’s.”

 

[tallcoolone]

My sister in law passed away around the same time as Eddie from a tounge peircing reacting to the metal

That's horrible! Condolences.

Eddie sucked down a whole lotta lung darts...

 

[Spooky88]

I'm writting this thread because EVH is probably the ultimate reference tone for a plexi. After a plexi the best tone would be the tone of a peavey 5150 particulary the tone of Dann Huff :
the most underrated guitar player which was unfortunately born at the wrong time...

I don’t necessarily agree. I’ve followed Dan since his White heart days. What a talent and great producer as well. That being said I’ve sat in with with some of the best musicians on the planet and almost all of them none of you have ever heard of! Let’s start with Bill Mays (American Jazz pianist) Look him up. There’s plenty of people who have great talent and skill but never got any attention. Not born at the wrong time, simply never the flavor of the month.

 

[pat_rocks]

Just found this : it looks like channels are jumped by a y cable WOW if it's the secret then it was so dumb haha



Now i guess we are digging one big part of the mystery. I was like where did we show eddie using his amp. There no picture showing the front being connected then i remembered that on the letterman show he did bring his plexi with him !

if he used a y cable then he brought it : if he brought it it's certainly because he usually uses his plexi with it !

So channels jumped by a Y jumper must be part of the equation to the secret !

 

[pat_rocks]

It's crazy how there no one showing what sound both channels 1 jumped sound like. I searched on the net no one ever made a video with a y cable jump haha...
Well i guess we will have to try...

but i doubt it should change anything unless there was some mods there...

 

[Derrick111]

It's crazy how there no one showing what sound both channels 1 jumped sound like. I searched on the net no one ever made a video with a y cable jump haha...

Jumping the channels will be different depending on the Superlead... a '68 could be one of the last shared circuits, or one of the new split cathode circuits that came in around early 1968. The first of the new split cathode circuits had only one .68uF (on V1), then a second .68uF (on V2) was added shortly after. These split cathode circuit changes gave channel one more gain, less bass, more bite, and a tighter sound. In addition, channel two was also changed, sounding much different than the earlier amps with shared cathode preamps! On these, ch2 became unusable for most in my opinion with more gain and the high end extremely rolled off making giving a very muddy response. This is the way ch2 is still voiced to this day on a 4 input Superlead type Marshall. I don't know what Marshall was thinking and nobody likes to use ch2. When I was young, I could never understand why Clapton played ch2, until I learned that his earlier Superleads had a different cn2 than all post '67 Marshalls that I was familiar with. Anyhow, I'm not sure we have solid enough proof what version EVH had in his main Superlead, and I am skeptical of EV jumping channels because that is less needed at those volumes and because of how easily ch2 gets muddy at any volume. He could have done it on just on TV for more gain at lower volume, but a blurry low res still isn't proof and I'm not sure my ears tell me he jumped channels for the first few EV records.