The particularities about Eddie Van Halen plexi 12301

[Marcomel79]

My el84 plexi sounds exactly like if you isolate the guitar tracks of vh1 from the songs which means it sound like vh1

If your EL84 can sound like VH1, any amp can.... the secret is in twisting knobs...



Oh, and play like Eddie

 

[Up The Steen]

Big Muff

 

[pittbull]

if your not interested in a specific topic don’t get involved

 

[pat_rocks]

Not this shit again.

When the video will be out you’ll be able to build it. And if you do build it that’s one amp you’ll never sell…

 

[EndGame00]

Remember, back in that day, when they say "stock", it means, they used whatever available component they have in factory... Hence, it was still stock when it left the production line... EVH's was a stock, but an oddball amp.....

 

[pat_rocks]

Remember, back in that day, when they say "stock", it means, they used whatever available component they have in factory... Hence, it was still stock when it left the production line... EVH's was a stock, but an oddball amp.....

It’s possible but I’m talking about an amp that can recreate the sound we get after recording. I mean that mimics the compression made by the mics and the eq.

 

[pat_rocks]

Remember, back in that day, when they say "stock", it means, they used whatever available component they have in factory... Hence, it was still stock when it left the production line... EVH's was a stock, but an oddball amp.....

It’s possible but I’m talking about an amp that can recreate the sound we get after recording. I mean that mimics the compression made by the mics and the eq. There is one transistor that Jose used for the master volume that is like mil specd and which he used a little bit differently. I’ve done it by accident and it’s crazy how it impacts the tone.

 

[EndGame00]

It’s possible but I’m talking about an amp that can recreate the sound we get after recording. I mean that mimics the compression made by the mics and the eq. There is one transistor that Jose used for the master volume that is like mil specd and which he used a little bit differently. I’ve done it by accident and it’s crazy how it impacts the tone.

So much studio magic going on post-production... EVH's live tone was very bright and tinny....

 

[colchar]

When the video will be out you’ll be able to build it. And if you do build it that’s one amp you’ll never sell…

Like fuck, that's a hard pass.

 

[ElvisNixon]

It’s possible but I’m talking about an amp that can recreate the sound we get after recording. I mean that mimics the compression made by the mics and the eq.

No, no you’re not. First of all, how are you going to “mimic” something that you have no knowledge, experience or understanding of?

Compressors, limiters, vacuum tubes and analog tape create compression in the signal chain in a recording studio.

Which microphone are you going to emulate as you put it? An SM57? A Neumann M49? Does an API mic preamp pushed hard sound like a Neve preamp or an SSL preamp. which did Sunset Sound use?

Does an API Equalizer narrow or widen it’s Q as you boost or cut the eq more aggressively? Is a Neve 1073 eq fully parametric? How many bands of frequencies does an SSL equalizer have? Do Neve or SSL eqs have linear or logarithmic pots? how does each of these affect the Q of each band of the parametric eq. Is an API 550A eq fully parametric or not?

Are you going to “recreate” analog 2” 24 track tape machines? Do you know what brand and model was in use at Sunset? 2” 16 track? Are you hiting the tape at +4DBu or 6DBu? will +6 distort the tape or add tape compression? Ampex 456 or 3M tape? Is your tape machine running at 15 inches per second or 30ips? what has better bass response and/or better high frequency fidelity?

The first digital reverb machine was the EMT 250 released in 1976 at a selling price of $40,000. Did Sunset Sound have a 250 or use EMT 140 Plate reverb? What speaker and microphone did Sunset use in their 2 echo chambers?

I could go on and on and we have even got a quarter way through the recording chain or started talking about the actual compressors and limiters nor are we anyway remotely close to the mixing stage of the recording studio process.

I’m going to call bullshit every time you “discover proof” or claim to have exclusive “secrets” you dream up and arrive at a misguided “definitive” conclusion built on “facts” you attempt to state that you think proves your misguided beliefs.

You also always vaguely claim that you will offer things for sale such as the pickups you thought were in EVH’s guitar or this amp that nobody will ever sell. 100% Bullcrap.

I’ve politely pointed all this out to you in your past topics. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but you are full of it if you think you’re going to design and/or build or sell or whatever guitar amp that will sound like “the record”. There’s a reason that places like Sunset Sound, Abbey Road, Sun, Electric Lady, The Hit Factory, Motown House, Etc etc exist or existed and cost several million dollars. You’re just not going to dick around with some circuit and emulate the work of a great engineer (Donn Landee) and producer (Ted Templeman) working in a world class studio recording and mixing a talented and unique artist.

It would be like someone who barely knows how to plug in his guitar, turn on his amp and play an open E without getting electrocuted when he pokes around inside his amp with a screwdriver saying he discovered the secret to a 1968 Super Lead except with the Jesus (or Jose’) mod with a outboard putz rectumfier feedback spring in the amp.

@Mile High Effects: I’m sincerely sorry about your nephew.

The prickly and weary responses from some folks here have to do more with @pat_rocks constantly posting these sort of topics.

When he is presented with polite and respectful patient responses rproving his wild theories wrong, he doesn’t learn. He doubles down on his point with even more outlandish claims that everyone knows is BS. He’ll blunder on for another 5 pages like that.

People here are very knowledgeable in their given experience. Whether it’s an audio engineer or someone who knows their Marshalls inside and out. I think you might have been better off to start your own thread rather resurrecting a thread like this. I’m rather new here myself, but I know what I know and what I don’t.

I can change the sound of any given guitar in the tracking and mixing phases of making a record than any of the minutiae of small circuit anomalies and types of resistors and caps.

If you enjoy trying to cop EVH’s tone then go cat go! Enjoy yourself! Post about it. On discussion forums such as this, the individual members ARE the content creators. We want to create accurate content. Speculating is one thing but the EVH folklore and claims of discovery secrets (possibly for sale) really rub some people the wrong way. (As you might have guessed from my reply)

I apologize if I come off like a dick I promise I’m not one. Welcome to the forum.

 

[ElvisNixon]

Big Muff

Don’t forget the direct box!

 

[StrummerJoe]

No, no you’re not. First of all, how are you going to “mimic” something that you have no knowledge, experience or understanding of?

Compressors, limiters, vacuum tubes and analog tape create compression in the signal chain in a recording studio.

Which microphone are you going to emulate as you put it? An SM57? A Neumann M49? Does an API mic preamp pushed hard sound like a Neve preamp or an SSL preamp. which did Sunset Sound use?

Does an API Equalizer narrow or widen it’s Q as you boost or cut the eq more aggressively? Is a Neve 1073 eq fully parametric? How many bands of frequencies does an SSL equalizer have? Do Neve or SSL eqs have linear or logarithmic pots? how does each of these affect the Q of each band of the parametric eq. Is an API 550A eq fully parametric or not?

Are you going to “recreate” analog 2” 24 track tape machines? Do you know what brand and model was in use at Sunset? 2” 16 track? Are you hiting the tape at +4DBu or 6DBu? will +6 distort the tape or add tape compression? Ampex 456 or 3M tape? Is your tape machine running at 15 inches per second or 30ips? what has better bass response and/or better high frequency fidelity?

The first digital reverb machine was the EMT 250 released in 1976 at a selling price of $40,000. Did Sunset Sound have a 250 or use EMT 140 Plate reverb? What speaker and microphone did Sunset use in their 2 echo chambers?

I could go on and on and we have even got a quarter way through the recording chain or started talking about the actual compressors and limiters nor are we anyway remotely close to the mixing stage of the recording studio process.

I’m going to call bullshit every time you “discover proof” or claim to have exclusive “secrets” you dream up and arrive at a misguided “definitive” conclusion built on “facts” you attempt to state that you think proves your misguided beliefs.

You also always vaguely claim that you will offer things for sale such as the pickups you thought were in EVH’s guitar or this amp that nobody will ever sell. 100% Bullcrap.

I’ve politely pointed all this out to you in your past topics. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but you are full of it if you think you’re going to design and/or build or sell or whatever guitar amp that will sound like “the record”. There’s a reason that places like Sunset Sound, Abbey Road, Sun, Electric Lady, The Hit Factory, Motown House, Etc etc exist or existed and cost several million dollars. You’re just not going to dick around with some circuit and emulate the work of a great engineer (Donn Landee) and producer (Ted Templeman) working in a world class studio recording and mixing a talented and unique artist.

It would be like someone who barely knows how to plug in his guitar, turn on his amp and play an open E without getting electrocuted when he pokes around inside his amp with a screwdriver saying he discovered the secret to a 1968 Super Lead except with the Jesus (or Jose’) mod with a outboard putz rectumfier feedback spring in the amp.

@Mile High Effects: I’m sincerely sorry about your nephew.

The prickly and weary responses from some folks here have to do more with @pat_rocks constantly posting these sort of topics.

When he is presented with polite and respectful patient responses rproving his wild theories wrong, he doesn’t learn. He doubles down on his point with even more outlandish claims that everyone knows is BS. He’ll blunder on for another 5 pages like that.

People here are very knowledgeable in their given experience. Whether it’s an audio engineer or someone who knows their Marshalls inside and out. I think you might have been better off to start your own thread rather resurrecting a thread like this. I’m rather new here myself, but I know what I know and what I don’t.

I can change the sound of any given guitar in the tracking and mixing phases of making a record than any of the minutiae of small circuit anomalies and types of resistors and caps.

If you enjoy trying to cop EVH’s tone then go cat go! Enjoy yourself! Post about it. On discussion forums such as this, the individual members ARE the content creators. We want to create accurate content. Speculating is one thing but the EVH folklore and claims of discovery secrets (possibly for sale) really rub some people the wrong way. (As you might have guessed from my reply)

I apologize if I come off like a dick I promise I’m not one. Welcome to the forum.

So you don't believe him?

 

[StrummerJoe]

.

 

[StrummerJoe]

.

 

[pat_rocks]

One secret behind

No, no you’re not. First of all, how are you going to “mimic” something that you have no knowledge, experience or understanding of?

Compressors, limiters, vacuum tubes and analog tape create compression in the signal chain in a recording studio.

Which microphone are you going to emulate as you put it? An SM57? A Neumann M49? Does an API mic preamp pushed hard sound like a Neve preamp or an SSL preamp. which did Sunset Sound use?

Does an API Equalizer narrow or widen it’s Q as you boost or cut the eq more aggressively? Is a Neve 1073 eq fully parametric? How many bands of frequencies does an SSL equalizer have? Do Neve or SSL eqs have linear or logarithmic pots? how does each of these affect the Q of each band of the parametric eq. Is an API 550A eq fully parametric or not?

Are you going to “recreate” analog 2” 24 track tape machines? Do you know what brand and model was in use at Sunset? 2” 16 track? Are you hiting the tape at +4DBu or 6DBu? will +6 distort the tape or add tape compression? Ampex 456 or 3M tape? Is your tape machine running at 15 inches per second or 30ips? what has better bass response and/or better high frequency fidelity?

The first digital reverb machine was the EMT 250 released in 1976 at a selling price of $40,000. Did Sunset Sound have a 250 or use EMT 140 Plate reverb? What speaker and microphone did Sunset use in their 2 echo chambers?

I could go on and on and we have even got a quarter way through the recording chain or started talking about the actual compressors and limiters nor are we anyway remotely close to the mixing stage of the recording studio process.

I’m going to call bullshit every time you “discover proof” or claim to have exclusive “secrets” you dream up and arrive at a misguided “definitive” conclusion built on “facts” you attempt to state that you think proves your misguided beliefs.

You also always vaguely claim that you will offer things for sale such as the pickups you thought were in EVH’s guitar or this amp that nobody will ever sell. 100% Bullcrap.

I’ve politely pointed all this out to you in your past topics. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but you are full of it if you think you’re going to design and/or build or sell or whatever guitar amp that will sound like “the record”. There’s a reason that places like Sunset Sound, Abbey Road, Sun, Electric Lady, The Hit Factory, Motown House, Etc etc exist or existed and cost several million dollars. You’re just not going to dick around with some circuit and emulate the work of a great engineer (Donn Landee) and producer (Ted Templeman) working in a world class studio recording and mixing a talented and unique artist.

It would be like someone who barely knows how to plug in his guitar, turn on his amp and play an open E without getting electrocuted when he pokes around inside his amp with a screwdriver saying he discovered the secret to a 1968 Super Lead except with the Jesus (or Jose’) mod with a outboard putz rectumfier feedback spring in the amp.

@Mile High Effects: I’m sincerely sorry about your nephew.

The prickly and weary responses from some folks here have to do more with @pat_rocks constantly posting these sort of topics.

When he is presented with polite and respectful patient responses rproving his wild theories wrong, he doesn’t learn. He doubles down on his point with even more outlandish claims that everyone knows is BS. He’ll blunder on for another 5 pages like that.

People here are very knowledgeable in their given experience. Whether it’s an audio engineer or someone who knows their Marshalls inside and out. I think you might have been better off to start your own thread rather resurrecting a thread like this. I’m rather new here myself, but I know what I know and what I don’t.

I can change the sound of any given guitar in the tracking and mixing phases of making a record than any of the minutiae of small circuit anomalies and types of resistors and caps.

If you enjoy trying to cop EVH’s tone then go cat go! Enjoy yourself! Post about it. On discussion forums such as this, the individual members ARE the content creators. We want to create accurate content. Speculating is one thing but the EVH folklore and claims of discovery secrets (possibly for sale) really rub some people the wrong way. (As you might have guessed from my reply)

I apologize if I come off like a dick I promise I’m not one. Welcome to the forum.

I’m sorry but before you tell me it’s impossible you should try the amp. Unfortunately when I try to record it, it never sounds like it sounds in real life. If anyone got a solution to have an amp being recorded as it sounds in real life I’d willingly make better audios.

I admit some theory I failed to approve them like those humbuckers with the reversed magnet.

However I contributed to some discoveries for example no one knew that Eddie used blackbacks t1281 people always assumed it was g12m and not g12h 55hz. In the metro forums very few assumed the 55hz theory but no one had any proof. I asked the person owning the flag systems cabs owned by Eddie and he gave me the info. That explains why his ex tech tells us that the jbl d120f were only used to fill holes on slanted cabs. The main cabs were filled with 20w greenbacks and t1281 blackbacks for the clean bright sound. The t1281 55hz produce a cleaner sound than a greenback.

Why before judging me you don’t watch the video I’m making and wait for someone who will build the amp i conceived to see ppl’s review ?

The amp I built is based on eddies preamp and Jose Arredondo mods. It’s a combination of both.

Jose and his mods are no folklore.

 

[ElvisNixon]

One secret behind


I’m sorry but before you tell me it’s impossible you should try the amp. Unfortunately when I try to record it, it never sounds like it sounds in real life. If anyone got a solution to have an amp being recorded as it sounds in real life I’d willingly make better audios.

I admit some theory I failed to approve them like those humbuckers with the reversed magnet.

However I contributed to some discoveries for example no one knew that Eddie used blackbacks t1281 people always assumed it was g12m and not g12h 55hz. In the metro forums very few assumed the 55hz theory but no one had any proof. I asked the person owning the flag systems cabs owned by Eddie and he gave me the info. That explains why his ex tech tells us that the jbl d120f were only used to fill holes on slanted cabs. The main cabs were filled with 20w greenbacks and t1281 blackbacks for the clean bright sound. The t1281 55hz produce a cleaner sound than a greenback.

Why before judging me you don’t watch the video I’m making and wait for someone who will build the amp i conceived to see ppl’s review ?

The amp I built is based on eddies preamp and Jose Arredondo mods. It’s a combination of both.

Jose and his mods are no folklore.

Fair enough @pat_rocks. Nothing personal. I’m not saying that you don’t have knowledge about amplification, I’m just saying the same thing as I always suggest in your threads. Get a Shure SM57 (~$150) which is what they used at Sunset for a close mic on EVH’s cabinet. Learn how to use it.

Just like a Marine and his rifle..recite:

“This is my SM57. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my SM57 is useless. Without my SM57, I am useless.”.. and so forth. They tell you to give it a girl’s name. I hear Charlene is a safe bet.

Actually probably 70% of the great Marshall sounds used a 57 as a close mic. learn how to use it.

In Europe SM57’s weren’t as common back then as in the USA. They used Sennheiser MD421U5’s NOT the current version which is called the MD421II in Europe.

A good starting placement point is where the dust cap and the speaker meet about 2 inches away from the grille cloth. very small movement can radically change the sound.

If you move the mic towards the dustcap you’ll get a brighter sound and if you move it towards the edge of the speaker you’ll get a warmer sound. If you move the SM57 closer to the grille cloth what’s called the proximity effect will increase the bass and moving it further away from the grillecloth will give you a more airy open sound.

Also check each speaker with the mic as in a 4X12 usually identical speakers can sound different. You usually identify that best sounding speaker and use gaffer’s tape applied to the grillecloth to mark the sweet spot once you find it.

That way you can have repeatability and gaffer’s tape will not harm your grillecloth and doesn’t leave a sticky residue like duct tape. Have you ever noticed the “L” shaped tape on someone’s 4X12? that’s what it’s for.

lots more info if you google it. Good luck!

 

[pat_rocks]

Sure. When *you* paid a lot of money for something you will hear the difference. Nobody else will, but you'll think you do. Try a blind test.



My sincere condolences, I mean that. That said, I suggest you read the room and avoid insulting folks here or threatening violence.



Do you know what military spec actually means? If so, please explain it.

After the amount of BS you've spouted here, I'd have a hard time believing in any of your nonsense. Next you'll have recreated the Variac Of The Covenenant...

When I said miI was saying millimeter specs that’s a French expression to say that the component has to have very low tolerances. Like the transistor I use has to have between 125 and 135vf. That’s what I mean,

However Mile has a point on v1 preamp tubes they make a huge difference in the tone. The rest is barely noticeable.

When I finished to build my 50w plexi I wondered why it didn’t exactly sound like my el84 one. I tried to put a genalex gold lion in v1 like in my el84 plex instead of the nos Phillips I got and it made a huge difference getting closer even if there are still some differences.

 

[PelliX]

When I said miI was saying millimeter specs that’s a French expression to say that the component has to have very low tolerances.

Oh, I didn't know that. Cool.

Like the transistor I use has to have between 125 and 135vf. That’s what I mean,

The forward voltage would be Vbe (either On or Saturation), or do you mean the gain, as in hFE?

However Mile has a point on v1 preamp tubes they make a huge difference in the tone. The rest is barely noticeable.

V1 will make the largest difference, typically, yes. Apart from the gain, noise and microphony there's not a lot to it, though.

 

[pat_rocks]

Oh, I didn't know that. Cool.



The forward voltage would be Vbe (either On or Saturation), or do you mean the gain, as in hFE?



V1 will make the largest difference, typically, yes. Apart from the gain, noise and microphony there's not a lot to it, though.

In the video I’ll leak everything except the exact transistor model and the exact extra gain stage cap resistor combo, but if you search a little in my old posts you’ll find it. I’ll give an alternative which are 2 schottky bat42. However schottky diodes interact differently than transistors. It’s more compressed and a little bit more harsh. Transistors compresses just what you need for a good brown sound but you need the right Vf.

I can’t explain why but the Jose master volume interacts a lot with the phase inverter. My secret for the brown sound is that once I was modding the phase inverter I forgot to put back a resistor where the 82k belongs. The amp lost a lot of its output but a new kind of distortion appeared and it reacts a lot with the diode transistor you have on the Jose master volume. The drawback is that you lose a lot of output but the sound is insane… what I did is that I’m using a switch to disengage the 82k or to connect it back to stock and it works like a charm except for the pop. I only switch to brown when the amp is off for more safety.



Moreover this mod allows me to get insane tones at bedroom levels with a 50w plexi a thing I never achieved without an attenuator. And I think it is not an overstatement to say that this mod turns your amp into a distortion machine. However I think the drawback might be that one power tube is working harder and it will shorten its lifespan.

But to be honest I don’t know what the side effects are as I probably played around 30hours on the el84 plexi. Tubes are hot but not red plating. I believe it might just shorten power tubes lifespan.

 

[ReWind James]

Also, whenever anyone invokes the name of EVH here, it draws the same ultracrepidarian frequents who will come derail and troll.