The particularities about Eddie Van Halen plexi 12301

[PelliX]

^ What he said. And skip any mention of that Jose plonker with his goofy soldering or "secret components". In fact, don't use the word 'secret' at all. We don't need another "triple soldered" Billy Blades type saga again.

 

[Derrick111]

However I contributed to some discoveries for example no one knew that Eddie used blackbacks t1281 people always assumed it was g12m and not g12h 55hz. In the metro forums very few assumed the 55hz theory but no one had any proof. I asked the person owning the flag systems cabs owned by Eddie and he gave me the info. That explains why his ex tech tells us that the jbl d120f were only used to fill holes on slanted cabs. The main cabs were filled with 20w greenbacks and t1281 blackbacks for the clean bright sound. The t1281 55hz produce a cleaner sound than a greenback.

I've tried to stay out of the typical internet pissing here, but I'm sorry if you think you "discovered" this... First of all, the photos alone of the cabs Ed used, not to mention the time period of them are dead giveaways that Ed used mostly mid-late 70s Marshall 4X12s back then. We know those were factory installed with blackbacks. I even assumed this when I was a kid in the 80s. Your asking the current owner to confirm doesn't make you a discoverer or holder of secrets.

Second, you don't actually know which one of Ed's cabs he used in the studio on the recordings, or if he did something with the speakers in that cab he recorded with. It would be speculation. Thinking back to my own studio recordings in the 90s and beyond, I did some pretty strange stuff spur of the moment... off the cuff so to speak, that in hind site makes no sense for my usual gear preferences and tendencies. Sometimes I just tried stuff. Sometimes I wanted to do something different because recording was a special event. Sometimes, I was just trying to have a little fun. Sometimes, I saved what I considered better stuff I wouldn't take on the road for the studio. My points are that blackbacks in Ed's cabs are no secret or discovery, and that we can speculate but speculation always seems to rely on what we feel would be the most likely outcome, although artists don't operate that way - there are a million strange reasons that non-predictable choices were made which speculation will miss every time.

One more point, out of all the VH fanatics going back to day one decades ago... you really think you are the one person who asked a question about Ed's gear and became privy to secrets and discoveries? I think you are picking up on people here viewing this as egotistical and delusional. Hey, hopefully you can figure out how to record as good as you claimed to have figured out coping Ed's recorded sound and show us some proof in your claims. Otherwise, you are just another fanatic making the age old claim many here have heard for decades but that never actually materialized. Don't give up, but maybe don't claim to be the VH sound messiah until you have proof because it rubs people the wrong way.

 

[colchar]

Why before judging me you don’t watch the video I’m making

Because we don't fucking care.

 

[PelliX]

Because we don't fucking care.

Some of that, but also you've kinda earned yourself a reputation here, @pat_rocks. Reputations are like guitars; bad ones are easy to get, good ones need to be taken care of.

Let's reflect on the story so far.

1) The "secret" carrot-on-a-stick thing...
2) The "sales pitch" for said secret carrot.
3) The "you're not worthy" schtick.
4) Confusion around the word "proof" and how hearsay is not the same thing.
5) The multi-threading. Assuming you had actually brought something else than your coffee to the table, one thread would be enough.
6) The disregard of the entire studio production aspect of the VH1 album.
7) Your trouble delivering a decent audio recording.

Then there's the issue with the fact that you can't play like Eddie. Various people can do that to varying degrees and I'll be the first to admit that I'm not one of the better ones, it's also not my thing. While a lack of talent or just naturally leaning towards totally different styles of playing are nothing one should ever hold against another, I presume you see how isn't helping your case.

Given these matters, how do you expect to garner the admiration of a picky crowd?

Your best bet is to get real, share the whole schematic with a picdump in a new, clean thread and outline where you could do with some guidance as far as the amp is concerned. Perhaps preface it with a humble statement for a change, too. As far as your recording woes are concerned, we've all been there and plenty of blokes - myself included - will gladly point you in the right direction and assist as needed. @ElvisNixon has given you a lot to read up on, consider and evaluate already, and from reading his posts I can tell that he knows a bit about this stuff.

 

[pat_rocks]

Also, whenever anyone invokes the name of EVH here, it draws the same ultracrepidarian frequents who will come derail and troll.

I’ll try to explain the full build and mods in the video. It’s already a 30 min video without even touching the build x)…

Tell me James I wanted to ask you a question as you have repaired enough vintage gear to write some books about it. My next build will be a jtm45. I read online that the jtm 45/100 could use 20h chokes however it seems that most repair shops indicate it’s more 3h to 5h chokes in reality with some few exception with 20h chokes. Is that correct ?

 

[Derek S]

I've tried to stay out of the typical internet pissing here, but I'm sorry if you think you "discovered" this... First of all, the photos alone of the cabs Ed used, not to mention the time period of them are dead giveaways that Ed used mostly mid-late 70s Marshall 4X12s back then. We know those were factory installed with blackbacks. I even assumed this when I was a kid in the 80s. Your asking the current owner to confirm doesn't make you a discoverer or holder of secrets.

Second, you don't actually know which one of Ed's cabs he used in the studio on the recordings, or if he did something with the speakers in that cab he recorded with. It would be speculation. Thinking back to my own studio recordings in the 90s and beyond, I did some pretty strange stuff spur of the moment... off the cuff so to speak, that in hind site makes no sense for my usual gear preferences and tendencies. Sometimes I just tried stuff. Sometimes I wanted to do something different because recording was a special event. Sometimes, I was just trying to have a little fun. Sometimes, I saved what I considered better stuff I wouldn't take on the road for the studio. My points are that blackbacks in Ed's cabs are no secret or discovery, and that we can speculate but speculation always seems to rely on what we feel would be the most likely outcome, although artists don't operate that way - there are a million strange reasons that non-predictable choices were made which speculation will miss every time.

One more point, out of all the VH fanatics going back to day one decades ago... you really think you are the one person who asked a question about Ed's gear and became privy to secrets and discoveries? I think you are picking up on people here viewing this as egotistical and delusional. Hey, hopefully you can figure out how to record as good as you claimed to have figured out coping Ed's recorded sound and show us some proof in your claims. Otherwise, you are just another fanatic making the age old claim many here have heard for decades but that never actually materialized. Don't give up, but maybe don't claim to be the VH sound messiah until you have proof because it rubs people the wrong way.

+1 on the blackbacks. I don't claim to know what was used for that iconic first album gear wise, don't care much honestly - I just know that I have a quad of blackbacks ('76) and those with a Super Distortion loaded alder superstrat w/floyd and mic'd with an off axis sm57 gets me really, really close (through several different amps for that matter). Those speakers are key IMO, weather he actually recorded with them or not, they DO happen to help nail that recorded tone FWIW.

 

[pat_rocks]

Because we don't fucking care.

Then why are you commenting this topic ?

 

[pat_rocks]

Some of that, but also you've kinda earned yourself a reputation here, @pat_rocks. Reputations are like guitars; bad ones are easy to get, good ones need to be taken care of.

Let's reflect on the story so far.

1) The "secret" carrot-on-a-stick thing...
2) The "sales pitch" for said secret carrot.
3) The "you're not worthy" schtick.
4) Confusion around the word "proof" and how hearsay is not the same thing.
5) The multi-threading. Assuming you had actually brought something else than your coffee to the table, one thread would be enough.
6) The disregard of the entire studio production aspect of the VH1 album.
7) Your trouble delivering a decent audio recording.

Then there's the issue with the fact that you can't play like Eddie. Various people can do that to varying degrees and I'll be the first to admit that I'm not one of the better ones, it's also not my thing. While a lack of talent or just naturally leaning towards totally different styles of playing are nothing one should ever hold against another, I presume you see how isn't helping your case.

Given these matters, how do you expect to garner the admiration of a picky crowd?

Your best bet is to get real, share the whole schematic with a picdump in a new, clean thread and outline where you could do with some guidance as far as the amp is concerned. Perhaps preface it with a humble statement for a change, too. As far as your recording woes are concerned, we've all been there and plenty of blokes - myself included - will gladly point you in the right direction and assist as needed. @ElvisNixon has given you a lot to read up on, consider and evaluate already, and from reading his posts I can tell that he knows a bit about this stuff.

Yes it’s true that I tried to make some money winding pickups. But that doesn’t mean I didn’t believe in what I was trying to build. Fortunately James was there to correct the mistakes I’ve done on reading online about PAF.

I’ve changed my mind for the amp because i would never enough time to fullfill every orders and I think every one deserves to have fun with this tone. You can use the design for yourself and even sell it or improve on it just indicate that I’m the one who came up with the original mod.

I’ll share every mod except for the transistor exact specs and the extra gain stage exact values. Why ? Because I spent 4 months modding day and night and spent a lot of time and money on research and components. I’ll share those values with some people which helped me to get there like ossie Ashen and Dan from the tdpri forum.

That’s some of the clipping diodes zeners and transistors I tried… I’ve done my job.



For the extra gain stage values I’ll give you some set of values which get extremely close but not as close as the values I use for my personal build.

Those are 3k3/1uf and bat42 schottky or 2n5550 transistor you can try 10k/1uf if you like it harsher.

 

[pat_rocks]

The mod also involves some other tweaks.

As you can see my el84 plexi has been butchered by the mods I did



I tried them on my new 1987x build and it works :



Now the differences are that on a 50w the mod is a little bit cleaner and less harsh sounding. You can clean up by rolling the volume of the humbucker down. With the el84 version you’ll get a hard time rolling down the volume to get a clean tone.

 

[colchar]

Then why are you commenting this topic ?

Because I feel like it.

If you don't want comments, don't post the threads.

 

[colchar]

Oh, how I long for days of Slash tone threads.

 

[pat_rocks]

Oh, how I long for days of Slash tone threads.

If you want I made an updated layout of what they figured out on the metro forums for the afd tone.

However I still haven’t tested it. That’s probably my next build. But I’ll do it with el84. Those little tubes are so good at breaking up early for a bedroom tone. They are exceptional.

I’ll perhaps leave the jtm45 build for later as I never built any jcm800.

 

[ElvisNixon]

Oh, how I long for days of Slash tone threads.

Oh dear lord look what you’ve done!

Apparently @pat_rocks knows Slash mods too!

 

[pat_rocks]

Oh, how I long for days of Slash tone threads.

that's the 2-4 watt version of it with ef80 :



it's the rob robinette version with the metro preamp board xD.

here you go : https://robrobinette.com/RR2104_Master_Volume_Micro.htm

with this website any guy can build his first amp it's almost as easy as playing with legos...

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

I've no skin in this game, but I'm glad you haven't gotten discouraged by some of the remarks people have made in your threads. Never surrender!!

 

[Up The Steen]

I love how this guy goes on and on about these guitar tones that were from a 100 watt amp running flat tack then thinks it must be down to some magic mods because he can't get the same sound with an EL84 amp at bedroom volume.

And not once have seen him mention trying a Big Muff.

 

[pat_rocks]

I love how this guy goes on and on about these guitar tones that were from a 100 watt amp running flat tack then thinks it must be down to some magic mods because he can't get the same sound with an EL84 amp at bedroom volume.

And not once have seen him mention trying a Big Muff.

Does it look like an el84 amp ? this is a 1987x with 2 6ca7… it has Jose mods and it clearly sounds like Van Halen 1 even better than any super lead or bray amp…

There is no magic involved. It can be only 3 things or it is Jose, or the recording studio or even both…

 

[PelliX]

it has Jose mods and it clearly sounds like Van Halen 1 even better than any super lead or bray amp…

To be fair, while many here would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, that's a tall statement and without some recordings it's going to be tough to back up. Just sayin'.

 

[pat_rocks]

To be fair, while many here would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, that's a tall statement and without some recordings it's going to be tough to back up. Just sayin'.

I mean if I have to be exact it’s only better at vh1 and at vh2 the bray still does the other albums better.

 

[pat_rocks]

One question always bothered me about Eddie why the hell do you need a slave amp for a 100w amp when you play in a small club. It’s already enough for a stadium…

This mod removes a lot of output and makes your amp almost a bedroom volume amp. If he used something similar slaving would make sense. But there is no proof at all this could be the reason he was using slave amps for a 100w head in small clubs.