Tone King Ironman II or Fryette PS-2

[guitarbilly74]

Thanks! And mono is fine with my setup.
I had one last question if you don't mind about speaker handling... My Princeton is 12-15 watts, has an 10" Oxford 8-ohm speaker - but not sure of the total wattage it supports and was unable to find it listed. The speaker codes indicate the month/year ('1969) and is also marked 'J' (the letter usually corresponds with it's power handling). I 'assume' it's pretty low. So if I were to use the Power Station to increase the headroom of that amp to approximate the 20-25 watt range (like a deluxe reverb) or higher, do you think that increase could potentially blow the speaker? Figured it would be wise to ask before I do something stupid that I'd regret. The speaker, (while not the preferred Jensen of that era) sounds very good to me, so I'd prefer not to replace it.
And I have been out of the gear/music thing for a while and forgot some technical fundamentals.

The "J" is 20w if I recall correctly, so yes, you have to be careful with it. Adding a few dB to the volume is probably safe though.

You can use the PS2 standby switch to take the PS2 in/out of the signal chain like I did on that video I posted.

So do some A/B comparison and listen for speaker distortion. Once the speaker starts distorting, back the PS volume down a few notches and you will be at the max volume the speaker can handle.

So yes there's a risk, but with a bit of caution you can safely do it.

 

[Mark_G]

The "J" is 20w if I recall correctly, so yes, you have to be careful with it. Adding a few dB to the volume is probably safe though.

You can use the PS2 standby switch to take the PS2 in/out of the signal chain like I did on that video I posted.

So do some A/B comparison and listen for speaker distortion. Once the speaker starts distorting, back the PS volume down a few notches and you will be at the max volume the speaker can handle.

So yes there's a risk, but with a bit of caution you can safely do it.

Thank you very much. I will proceed with gentle, incremental caution lol. Seriously, you have given me some great tips/suggestions. You certainly know your stuff and I value your opinion. This forum is GREAT and so many people here are super helpful and knowledgeable. Btw, your 1987 in the Fryette clip sounded fantastic.

 

[gkelm]

I would not run 50 watts into a 20 watt speaker… especially a vintage speaker that probably has decent value as it’s likely original to the amp.

 

[FleshOnGear]

I don’t necessarily think guitarbilly’s approach is bad, but I wouldn’t risk the speaker. I would find the Jensen/Weber/Jupiter speaker that’s closest to your Oxford, but with a higher power handling, and store the original.

Awhile ago I bought an old Airline combo amp that had an original Jensen C12R in it. The C12R was *maybe* a 15 watt speaker, but the combo puts out 18 clean watts. I decided to buy a reissue Jensen C12R and store the original. I could hear very little difference between the two. It might be harder to find a substitute for an Oxford, but get a look at the cone of your original speaker and choose a replacement with the most similar cone style.

 

[LargeBoxSmallBox]

I have used quite a few attenuators/re-ampers, and done extensive amounts of testing. Here is my take.

The most transparent ATTENTUATOR I have used is the Dr Z Trainwreck. Many tests of this unit on different vintage Marshalls show a very transparent attenuation, but limited in the amount of attenuation. Also, it has a stepped attenuation, which is a severe limitation, in my opinion.

I bought a Bad Cat Unleash, and it sucked my tone. Sent it back in a week.

As far as RE-AMPERS, I have compared the Rivera Rockcrusher to the Fryette PS-2, and the PS-2 wins hands down. For not the least reason of which is also the stepped attenuation. Basically, any unit that gives me stepped attenuation is a non-starter in gigs, as it is very difficult to always have the right amount of attenuation. You always seem to want just a little more or a little less than the predetermined levels.

Enter the PS-2, I can tell you from many hours of use on various vintage Marshalls, both 4-input and 2-input, the PS-2 is VERY transparent. As mentioned a million times, the air moving at low volume levels makes a difference in how it feels to play, but other than that, there is literally no appreciable tone difference, when using the PS-2. It is a fantastic unit. Let me repeat. The PS-2 is a completely badass unit. Right down to whisper volume, your amp sounds like your amp, and it sounds great. And turning my SC20H into a 50-watt amp, the amp became a snarling, raging beast! Fun!

I have not used the Ironman II, but the video shown above presents a tone that I would never want. *shrug It just doesn't sound like my amps. I would not even consider an attenuator at all, other than for budgetary reasons.

As far as maintenance costs, I have had my PS-2 for at least a decade, and have not spent one thin dime in maintenance costs, or any costs.

My input is: PS-2 (or PS-100), hands down, no question. I will say it again: hands down, no question, no contest.

 

[SonVolt]

The worst part of the PowerStation is the line-out level knob is tiny and hard to reach/turn. IMO it should be a full-size knob, on the front of the unit.

 

[gkelm]

Fwiw, none of the Rockcrusher models re-amp.

 

[jeffp]

Yeah but even then, you can put effects through the PS100 loop, add/cut bite with the switches, add Presence and Depth, solo boost, make it quieter (or even louder) etc

The neutral sound is a starting point, there's still a lot of added flexibility with the PS.

I think it's a godsend for vintage style amps, it adds as much control as you'd have with a modern amp.

Thanks! Yes, I am totally sold on the Fryette. Just need to decide between the PS-2 or PS-100.
While I don't need to bring one of my amps up to even near 100-watts, I do like the secondary/boost channel idea and switchable loop. But I can probably get by just fine with the PS-2 (50watt) and the 6L6 tubes are a bit cheaper to replace than the 6500's and 'might' run cooler. Guess there are pros and cons to both. Mostly pros from what I can see.
Do you happen to know if the loop is wired for stereo? I know it's a mono amp, but wasn't sure about the FX loop and couldn't find that information on the Fryette site.

it is not wired for stereo.Having that would have been even more awesome!

 

[LargeBoxSmallBox]

Fwiw, none of the Rockcrusher models re-amp.

Ahhhh, that explains why the Power Station was so much better! My bad...thanks for the correction!

 

[Mark_G]

I don’t necessarily think guitarbilly’s approach is bad, but I wouldn’t risk the speaker. I would find the Jensen/Weber/Jupiter speaker that’s closest to your Oxford, but with a higher power handling, and store the original.

Awhile ago I bought an old Airline combo amp that had an original Jensen C12R in it. The C12R was *maybe* a 15 watt speaker, but the combo puts out 18 clean watts. I decided to buy a reissue Jensen C12R and store the original. I could hear very little difference between the two. It might be harder to find a substitute for an Oxford, but get a look at the cone of your original speaker and choose a replacement with the most similar cone style.

Thanks, I might look for a higher capacity equivalent. Especially if I end up running it with the Power Station. When I use the amp, it's only for smaller gigs and tbh, I seldom have to put it above '4'. It's enough volume for the venues (even without being mic'd), the tubes bloom but it still stays pretty clean. The breakup on it starts at around 6 - 6.5.

 

[Mark_G]

As far as maintenance costs, I have had my PS-2 for at least a decade, and have not spent one thin dime in maintenance costs, or any costs.

My input is: PS-2 (or PS-100), hands down, no question. I will say it again: hands down, no question, no contest.

That's great to know! You probably also take good care of your gear. But it also speaks volumes for the Fryette quality. Still trying to decide on the PS-2 vs 100, but I'm completely sold on getting one of them.

 

[LargeBoxSmallBox]

That's great to know! You probably also take good care of your gear. But it also speaks volumes for the Fryette quality. Still trying to decide on the PS-2 vs 100, but I'm completely sold on getting one of them.

I do take care of my gear, and I bought the Fryette bag that they made for the PS-2, so if I take it anywhere, it goes there padded. . My buddy put his PowerStation in his rack with their rack kit. It is truly a great unit, though, I love it.

I will say that I would be super interested in testing a Waza Tube Amp Expander. That thing seems like a really cool unit. I don't see a real problem with obsolescence, as I have heard it said. It's not like it is going to stop working all of a sudden.

If I was going to buy a PowerStation today, I would get the PS-100. The thing about the PS-100 that I would be interested in would be the ability to set up a lead boost that could be same tone (no additional gain, unless you wanted it) but you could get an actual volume boost for your leads. That is a challenge with a Marshall if you have it cranked. The TAE has that capability, too.

Here is a video that compares them, think how cool a 100-watt Deluxe Reverb could be!

 

[Mark_G]

I do take care of my gear, and I bought the Fryette bag that they made for the PS-2, so if I take it anywhere, it goes there padded. . My buddy put his PowerStation in his rack with their rack kit. It is truly a great unit, though, I love it.

I will say that I would be super interested in testing a Waza Tube Amp Expander. That thing seems like a really cool unit. I don't see a real problem with obsolescence, as I have heard it said. It's not like it is going to stop working all of a sudden.

If I was going to buy a PowerStation today, I would get the PS-100. The thing about the PS-100 that I would be interested in would be the ability to set up a lead boost that could be same tone (no additional gain, unless you wanted it) but you could get an actual volume boost for your leads. That is a challenge with a Marshall if you have it cranked. The TAE has that capability, too.

Here is a video that compares them, think how cool a 100-watt Deluxe Reverb could be!

Oh yes, I am VERY anal about my stuff so it's a no-brainier that I'd get the Fryette carry case! (and it fits either versions) A little pricey being around $70 - but a must have.
I've heard great things about the Ox AND the Waza - but for 'attenuation', they aren't as revered as the Tone King or the Fryette. Since most of what I'll be using it for are gigs (and I have a slew of great pedals) and home playing, the Fryette seems to be the perfect unit for me. I'm not inteding to do much recording where I know that the Ox and TAE reallly shine.
The PS-100 appeal to me over the PS-2 is primarily the foot switchable FX loop. The foot switchable boost can be great too. But I can't see needing 100-watts. I wish they made a 'PS-2b' - it would have those foot switch features but still keep to the 6L6 50-watts and it would likely be priced somewhere between the two. If so, I'd order it yesterday. But I'll be making my decision betwen the PS-2 and 100 pretty soon. Both are currently on backorder from most places I think.

 

[Mark_G]

Here is a video that compares them, think how cool a 100-watt Deluxe Reverb could be!

It certainly would! Only thing is that the Jensen that the reissue deluxe's are fitted with only handle 40-watts. So I'd have to be careful with re-amping too high. I might even switch out the stock Oxford I have on my '69 Prinecton to a 10" 40-watt equivalent speaker to play is safe and not potentially blow it up.

 

[FleshOnGear]

Both are currently on backorder from most places I think.

I wouldn’t wait for them to be in stock. Put an order in once you’ve made up your mind. I ordered my PS100 when it was back ordered because there was an unusual 48-month financing deal on it that I couldn’t pass up. Once Fryette had completed the next batch of PS100s, the price jumped $200. I got mine locked in at the lower price. I doubt it will jump like that again anytime soon, but you never know. I think I ended up waiting 3 months for it.

Also, I’m curious if the switching of the loop on the PS100 is on the send or return of the loop. It’s quite likely that using a foot switch to disengage the loop will cut off any delay trails. I haven’t tested this on mine yet.