UK vs US voicings and a speaker journey (V30, GB, H30, Alnicos, DV77, T75s...) (LONG AND RAMBLING)

[HFloyd]

So I've been geeking the fuck out.

I've been doing a lot of experiments with guitar speakers, cabs and amps recently. I've got a lot of thoughts rattling in my noggin that I wanted to talk about. They're all linked. Somehow. I don't know how. But this is what I've been doing recently, what I've discovered and would like to know what people have experienced as well. But I also just wanted to write it all down somewhere to put my thoughts into some semblance of order. ENJOY.

I started off with 2 cabs:
- Mesa 4x12 loaded with:
Celestion V30s
These are V30s. You've heard them 18 million times. While the Internet is currently turning their nose up because "OmG eVeRyOnE iS uSiNg ThEm" the reason why everybody uses them is because they're fucking great. I've found them to be a midrange cannon with a nice open sounding top end for distortion. I do find them to be pretty lifeless when it comes to cleans or anything without a decent amount of distortion. They don't "chirp" very well for crunch or anything. However they're super easy to record too as I find that it gives you all the guitar noises you want to emphasise in a mix, without much extra (okay, a few notches between 2k and 4k are probably a good idea but you get the point).

Eminence DV77s
I bought these based off YouTube demos and....I'm not a huge fan of them in the flesh. I find them to be everything that V30s are not (which is why people may love them). but I find that they aren't that mid-focused, have a dark bottom and, and a very tight\controlled top end. The controlled top end can be "useful" but anything with a really well tamed top-end overall sounds dark to me. A bit like it has a high cut on them already. To be honest, they remind me a fair bit of Creambacks and while I know there is a strong Creamback fanbase, they've never made sense to me? Would love somebody to explain to me what they hear in Creambacks which make them so happy.

- Marshall 1960B loaded with:
T75s:
Even though this is my least favourite speaker, it definitely serves a purpose and I don't hate it out of existance. The good points of the T75 is that it's got a wide frequency range to it without a massive emphasis on anything. Tight enough to chug, but loose enough to not be surgical. I found that it didn't love any amp, but it didn't HATE anything either. What I DO hate about the T75s is that they seem to have this abrasive, fizzy top end. However, I think T75s serve a really good purpose on being a generic guitar cab speaker. If I was running a bar and wanted ONE cab for backline, I'd probably get something loaded with T75s. No, it'll never be the best choice of speaker for a situation but it absolutely will never be the worst choice of speaker.

Greenbacks:
Love. Starry eyed love. Big gooey mid push from them, but the way the top end breaks up for me is my absolute favourite thing. They CAN be dark, but that means you're not hurting them enough. These speakers sound better the more you abuse them and get that top end snarling. They're not particularly tight, but I found MOST things get on really well with Greenbacks. I am going to acknowledge my bias at this point in time that I just like Greenbacks so my opinion on "everything sounds great" with them may be biased.

My intention for these two cabs was to have the Mesa 4x12 as a chuggy metal cab with precision and an expert at all things distortion, meanwhile my Marshall cab would be for pretty and cleans and not necessarily metal.

My Mesa Cab I love the sound of. It's punchy, it's tight and I'm able to easily dial in tones with it. Though I'm not a fan of the DV77s, I feel like they're a great compliment in the same cab with the V30s and help give me information that the V30s don't.

However, I wasn't happy with the sound of my Marshal 1960B. While I love Greenbacks to death, and don't HATE T75s...

These two in a cab together I found was a horrible experience. That top end that I love so much about Greenbacks just clashed with the fizzy T75s and just created this piercing top end that I couldn't figure out no matter what I did. When mic'd up, the GBs still sounded killer, but there's just a weird clash with the T75s. So I went through some speakers to see what combination I liked best. THIS IS WHERE THE EDUCATION STARTED.



So my first attempt at "fixing" the Marshall cab was to replace the T75s. I found that I loved all alnico speakers. All of them are pretty. All of them are fluffy and lovely and...yes fizzy up top, but a NICE and oddly smooth kind of fizzy instead of a "ear scratching" fizzy. I couldn't decide which I liked most out the Gold, Ruby, Blue and Cream Alnicos, so I ordered a set of Cream Alnicos. Since they can handle 90 Watts of abuse, I figured these would be the most hardy of the Alnicos, and be useful in a wider range of scenarios. Golds were my second favourite, but ultimately I decided I just wanted that Alnico thing in my life. So I put them into the Marshall cab which now had Greenbacks and Cream Alnicos.

Thoughts on Cream Alnicos:
These are probably my second favourite speaker. I'm glad I got the Cream Alnicos because I've discovered that Alnico speakers aren't terribly versatile, but goddamn are they glorious. However these speakers play into a very particular bias for me that I have already mentioned. I found that the Cream Alnicos have a very similar midrange to a Greenback. Honestly, if I was to describe the Cream Alnicos, I'd ask you to imagine a Greenback, now add the Alnico fizz on top, and a smooth, but indistinct bass. That fizzy top end can be a bit tricky to reign in, also the lack of definition in the bass means that I find these speakers are great for anything you want to be PRETTY, but not necessarily tight or precise. They ARE quite punchy in the midrange though. I would suggest you could get away with Guns N Roses style drive with them, but anything more than that is gonna be rough with the fizz. Considering my goal for the Marshall cab was to turn it into a PRETTY thing, these were absolutely the perfect speaker for what I wanted it to do.

...

However.

The Greenbacks were sadly now an issue. Remember how I said that the Alnicos have a similar midrange? The cab overall now sounder dark and snotty. As much as I adore both the GB and the Alnicos, in the same cab I found they were stepping on each other's toes too much. They were too similar, while being different that they didn't compliment each other well.

As a result, I went and ordered a pair of Celestion G12H30 70th Anniversary speakers and put those in with the Alnicos.

Thoughts on H30s:
OOOOH BOY. I can totally understand why some people hate these speakers. These aren't my favourite but they are absolutely killer. The H30s have a super wide frequency range like the T75s, but they DON'T have the fizzy top end that makes me hate the T75s. Also, the H30s to me seem like they have a fairly balanced sound with a slight mid push across the spectrum. They're also super tight and handle all gain well. I'd suggest that these speakers are the nerd speakers. They will show you, with some brutal honesty, exactly what noise your amp is making. They are bright and clear and super sensitive to everything. I'm not a fan of a fuzz face running through these speakers as they're so sensitive to any sort of distortion that it's really tricky to get them to "clean up" enough with a fuzz face. The H30s are also super tight which I think is both an advantage and a disadvantage to them. Since they're so tight, they're great at any gain stage, but I think that's also what makes them so...eyeball stabby as well. They LOVE cleans, but honestly, they handle all gain stages with aplomb. I suspect that the H30s would almost always be an excellent "B" speaker to support another speaker.

So how do the Alnicos and the H30s sound togehter?

DAMN GOOD. But I've now created an interesting beast of a cab. The wide range of the H30s in a way "cradle" the Alnicos in the sense that it provides a whole bunch of top\bottom which the Alnicos don't do. Since the H30s are so tight and defined, it compensates for the fizzy\indistinct Cream Alnicos. Meanwhile, the midrange of the H30 stays out of the big fluffy midrange of the Cream Alnicos. Speaking of which, all the pretty fluffyness that the Alnicos bring? I'm pretty certain that they're doing a killer job of preventing the H30s sound like a total ice-pick.

 

[HFloyd]

SO WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH UK AND USA AMP VOICINGS?

Well I've ended up with two DRAMATICALLY different guitar cabs. My Mesa Cab is basically a mids cannon. ALL THE MIDS. Meanwhile, my Marshall Cab has ended up with a really wide frequency response and a lot more of a neutral sound. The Alnicos are there whenever I want SUPER pretty, but the H30s are a good option as well.

2 amps which I have are a Marshall JVM410 and a Mesa Boogie MKV. What have these dramatically different cabs taught me?

AN AWFUL LOT.

Surprisingly enough, I never loved the MKV through the Mesa cab. I always had to set the amp super bright to get any clarity\excitement out of it. However by the time I had brightened things up enough, the tone was starting to be an ice-pick. Due to the "fun" way Mess GEQ and tone stacks work, whenever you boost one thing, you end up losing a LITTLE bit of everything else. So I kinda always ended up with a bright, thuddy fun noise that was SUPER tight, but a bit thin in the mids.

Now when I plugged my JVM into my NEW Marshall Cab...it wasn't my favourite either. That Marshall pick attack will rip your fucking head off if you're not careful. Also, suddenly there was some harsh fizz in the REAL upper tops which I hadn't noticed before?

...Do you see where I'm going with this?

So I plugged the MKV into my Marshall cab and my JVM into my Mesa Cab.

AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USA AND UK VOICINGS BECAME IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS.

The MkV LOVES my Marshall Cab with its flat\wide response, whereas the JVM loves my Mid Cannon Mesa cab. Since the Marshall Cab is bright and has a wide response, I was able to roll off the top end of the MKV and suddenly all of these mids appeared and not in an overly aggressive or harsh way. Suddenly the Mesa didn't sound like a wet slap or a icepick anymore, but it sounded....like a fucking great amplifier.

Meanwhile: I have found that the JVM puts everything into the midrange. Your "thud" will be in the mids. Your top end sparkle will be in the mids. Your mids will...be in the mids. Basically the Marshall wants your midrange, all of your midrange and it will do all of the guitar noise IN the midrange. When it is given frequencies outside the midrange, it has no idea what the fuck to do with those frequencies and you'll hear noises that you arguably "weren't meant to hear." Even though the cab focuses on the midrange, the JVM sounds full and open and glorious with the Mesa Cab, and like an ice-pick with the Marshall Cab. Meanwhile the MKV into the Mesa cab sounds like it's got a blanket on the speaker OR like an icepick if I boost the top end enough to get on top of that.

BASICALLY. FROM EXPERIMENTING WITH GUITAR SPEAKERS I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT:

US Voiced Amps want ALL the frequencies. The more frequencies and the flatter response you can gave it, the happier it will be. It will use all those frequencies to make a killer guitar noise. Any frequencies that you starve it of, you will be cutting off parts of your tone and you want to feed it as many hertz as possible.

UK Voiced Amps want ALL the midrange. The more midrange you can give, the more of everything you'll find. You'll find more detail, more dynamics, more harmonics, more distortion and more everything. UK amps are happiest when they are screaming directly into your face and they absolutely do not care about anything else. In fact, they don't particular want it.




And that concludes my TED talk

I have no idea if any of it made sense. But I have two very different sounding cabs which suit two very different kinds of amps in very different ways and I have lots of different guitar noises which I can make now and that gives joy.

 

[FracStrat]

TL;DR
Playing Guitar ATM

 

[javadesigner]

Thanks of taking the time - what a great post!

So, have you heard/experimented with a Heritage G12-65 (not G12M-65/creamback) by any chance ?

I'm running a Single coil strat -> tonebender -> boost -> delay -> Vintage Modern 2266 on LDR -> 1x12 Avatar open back cab with G12M Heritage greenback.

The bass on the VM2266 is set to near zero, mid boost is engaged. The sound is absolutely glorious! Single notes shine/sustain forever but unfortunately distorted chords get just a tad muddy. I'm looking for something exactly the same but just a tad more tight, open and articulate when playing louder distorted chords.

Any opinions on running a Heritage G12-65 in that same 1x12 cab ? Or perhaps a G12H30 ?

PS: Even though 2266 is 35 watt max actual output, in this setup, I don't ever turn up the master past 2 so can get away going into a single G12M. At master 2, don't think the 2266 is pushing anywhere near the wattage to blow, but perhaps is still loud enough to to make it loose a little clarity/become farty..

 

[paul-e-mann]

Thanks of taking the time - what a great post!

So, have you heard/experimented with a Heritage G12-65 (not G12M-65/creamback) by any chance ?

I'm running a Single coil strat -> tonebender -> boost -> delay -> Vintage Modern 2266 on LDR -> 1x12 Avatar open back cab with G12M Heritage greenback.

The bass on the VM2266 is set to near zero, mid boost is engaged. The sound is absolutely glorious! Single notes shine/sustain forever but unforunately chords get just a tad muddy. I'm looking for something almost exactly the same but just a tad more articulate, open and distinct when playing distorted chords.

Any opinions on running a Heritage G12-65 in that same 1x12 cab ? I don't want to buy a new speaker because they are not returnable normally if it's going to be the same difference with what I have anyway.

PS: Even though 2266 is 35 watt max actual output, I don't turn up the master more than 2 so can get away going into a single G12M speaker. Don't think the 2266 is getting anywhere near the wattage to overdrive the speaker itself, so loosing just a little clarity (a bit farty) under distortion is characterstic of the G12 itself. A 2x12 cab I have (with exact same speakers) sounds the same, articulation wise.

I had a g12-65 1x12 and found it sounded great clean but too bright when distorted. Tried mixing it with other speakers but it just was never right so its gone now. From what I heard the matching VM cab is the best with a VM.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Have you swapped the speaker sets over?
Or do they only work how you like them as is.

 

[TheRealElChapo]

SO WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH UK AND USA AMP VOICINGS?

Well I've ended up with two DRAMATICALLY different guitar cabs. My Mesa Cab is basically a mids cannon. ALL THE MIDS. Meanwhile, my Marshall Cab has ended up with a really wide frequency response and a lot more of a neutral sound. The Alnicos are there whenever I want SUPER pretty, but the H30s are a good option as well.

2 amps which I have are a Marshall JVM410 and a Mesa Boogie MKV. What have these dramatically different cabs taught me?

AN AWFUL LOT.

Surprisingly enough, I never loved the MKV through the Mesa cab. I always had to set the amp super bright to get any clarity\excitement out of it. However by the time I had brightened things up enough, the tone was starting to be an ice-pick. Due to the "fun" way Mess GEQ and tone stacks work, whenever you boost one thing, you end up losing a LITTLE bit of everything else. So I kinda always ended up with a bright, thuddy fun noise that was SUPER tight, but a bit thin in the mids.

Now when I plugged my JVM into my NEW Marshall Cab...it wasn't my favourite either. That Marshall pick attack will rip your fucking head off if you're not careful. Also, suddenly there was some harsh fizz in the REAL upper tops which I hadn't noticed before?

...Do you see where I'm going with this?

So I plugged the MKV into my Marshall cab and my JVM into my Mesa Cab.

AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USA AND UK VOICINGS BECAME IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS.

The MkV LOVES my Marshall Cab with its flat\wide response, whereas the JVM loves my Mid Cannon Mesa cab. Since the Marshall Cab is bright and has a wide response, I was able to roll off the top end of the MKV and suddenly all of these mids appeared and not in an overly aggressive or harsh way. Suddenly the Mesa didn't sound like a wet slap or a icepick anymore, but it sounded....like a fucking great amplifier.

Meanwhile: I have found that the JVM puts everything into the midrange. Your "thud" will be in the mids. Your top end sparkle will be in the mids. Your mids will...be in the mids. Basically the Marshall wants your midrange, all of your midrange and it will do all of the guitar noise IN the midrange. When it is given frequencies outside the midrange, it has no idea what the fuck to do with those frequencies and you'll hear noises that you arguably "weren't meant to hear." Even though the cab focuses on the midrange, the JVM sounds full and open and glorious with the Mesa Cab, and like an ice-pick with the Marshall Cab. Meanwhile the MKV into the Mesa cab sounds like it's got a blanket on the speaker OR like an icepick if I boost the top end enough to get on top of that.

BASICALLY. FROM EXPERIMENTING WITH GUITAR SPEAKERS I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT:

US Voiced Amps want ALL the frequencies. The more frequencies and the flatter response you can gave it, the happier it will be. It will use all those frequencies to make a killer guitar noise. Any frequencies that you starve it of, you will be cutting off parts of your tone and you want to feed it as many hertz as possible.

UK Voiced Amps want ALL the midrange. The more midrange you can give, the more of everything you'll find. You'll find more detail, more dynamics, more harmonics, more distortion and more everything. UK amps are happiest when they are screaming directly into your face and they absolutely do not care about anything else. In fact, they don't particular want it.




And that concludes my TED talk

I have no idea if any of it made sense. But I have two very different sounding cabs which suit two very different kinds of amps in very different ways and I have lots of different guitar noises which I can make now and that gives joy.

I ended up pairing my Fender amp with a G12H30 Anniversary, which matches everything you said. I also have a G12M Heritage mixed with an Alnico Blue in a vertical 2x12, which I enjoy very much with every amp. Ended up going with a Creamback in my Marshall Origin 50 because it had more mid-range and a vintage gain sound, while the T75 sounds good also but gave the gain a more modern sound which I wasn't looking for. Thanks for the great post.

 

[Rograt]

I’m going to kind of agree with you about the G12T75. I have a JVM410HJS full stack with G12T75s. Previously I had a Vintage Modern full stack with Greenbacks. It seemed logical to change the cabs along with the amp, especially as the new amp covers so many sounds. Initially I found the G12T75s a little mid emphasised and characterless. I quickly realised that I can put anything through them and I stopped listening to the speakers themselves and more on what is going through them. Yes they won’t do the ultimate chug but I need the versatility. Before selling the VM stack I AB’d them and then found the Greenbacks to actually be quite scooped. I could probably adjust to something else but I’m quite happy with the G12T75s.

 

[Gordon Rankin]

HFloyd,

Sealed cabinets have one disadvantage and that is that with a driver inside the Fs or the resonant point of the speaker in the cabinet will cause a huge hump in impedance as seen by the amplifier. Different amps and speakers will react differently and therefore I always caution my customers with what they read on line.

You can make your cabinet better with the addition of 1 or 2 aperiodic vents. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/flares/ports/vents/scanspeak-290001-aperiodic-vent-ssv/

These are not ports they basically change the impedance as seen by the amplifier and allows the amplifier to work better. In my 4x12 slant I have 2 green back on the bottom, 2 Blue Alnico on top and two aperoodic vents on the back panel.

I would also not count out the Warehouse speakers. Their Alnico 8 and 10 are far better than anything I tried. I have the 12" Alnico in now for a new combo I am going to offer.

Thanks,
Gordon

 

[Sudsysul]

I really enjoyed your speaker experiment, as I've rolled Greenies, V30's, H30's and T75's in various combinations through 5 cabs and with 4 amps. Your descriptions are accurate and entertaining. I'll wager a bet - you'll change your mind again and again if you're like most of us. It's fun and maddening at the same time.

 

[BRMarshall]

Interesting read, appreciate you sharing your experience. I have a T75 waiting on a new home. I’m running a 25w Greenback with a V-Type in 1x12 cabs. I like both but prefer the V - it just seems a little smoother to me. I’m not running them very loud so that might be different in a higher volume situation. Glad you found a good mix with your amps, speakers and cabs - Enjoy!

 

[HFloyd]

Wow! This thread blew up a bit a while after I posted it! To respond to a few people...

Thanks of taking the time - what a great post!

So, have you heard/experimented with a Heritage G12-65 (not G12M-65/creamback) by any chance ?

I'm running a Single coil strat -> tonebender -> boost -> delay -> Vintage Modern 2266 on LDR -> 1x12 Avatar open back cab with G12M Heritage greenback.

The bass on the VM2266 is set to near zero, mid boost is engaged. The sound is absolutely glorious! Single notes shine/sustain forever but unfortunately distorted chords get just a tad muddy. I'm looking for something exactly the same but just a tad more tight, open and articulate when playing louder distorted chords.

Any opinions on running a Heritage G12-65 in that same 1x12 cab ? Or perhaps a G12H30 ?

PS: Even though 2266 is 35 watt max actual output, in this setup, I don't ever turn up the master past 2 so can get away going into a single G12M. At master 2, don't think the 2266 is pushing anywhere near the wattage to blow, but perhaps is still loud enough to to make it loose a little clarity/become farty..

Haven't tried the G1265s. Whenever I heard samples of them they always sounded a bit dark for my tastes. I like bright and open sounding.

An H30 is SUPER BRIGHT. It DOES have that extra frequency range which US voiced amps seem to absolutely love, but it is also fair to call it a pretty bright speaker as well. I think if you threw in an H30, you'd probably end up with something completely different to what you currently have and if you like ONE sound, then it's probably not the answer. It does dominate the cab with the Cream Alnicos, but the Cream Alnicos still shine through when you want the midrange to be present.

I'd consider a 2x12, one with the the G12-65 and something else bright on top. Hopefully then you keep most of what you already love, but the other speaker will add some extra to the distortion. A H30 might be the go there?

Have you swapped the speaker sets over?
Or do they only work how you like them as is.

Like 'em as is . In hindsight, I think the H30 is what makes the US voiced amps so goddamn happy. If anybody had a US voiced amp and they found it tricky to get the top end to play nice, I'd throw an H30 at 'em and that'll do the trick without much effort.

I’m going to kind of agree with you about the G12T75. I have a JVM410HJS full stack with G12T75s. Previously I had a Vintage Modern full stack with Greenbacks. It seemed logical to change the cabs along with the amp, especially as the new amp covers so many sounds. Initially I found the G12T75s a little mid emphasised and characterless. I quickly realised that I can put anything through them and I stopped listening to the speakers themselves and more on what is going through them. Yes they won’t do the ultimate chug but I need the versatility. Before selling the VM stack I AB’d them and then found the Greenbacks to actually be quite scooped. I could probably adjust to something else but I’m quite happy with the G12T75s.

I reckon the T75s are a good all-rounder, but I wouldn't call them the best at anything. I have to disagree that Greenies are scooped though. As I said, when paired with the super fluffy mid-heavy Alnicos, the cab was super snotty and congested in the midrange. It was mids on top of mids. However, Greenies only really start to do their glorious thing when they're being punished a little bit...

HFloyd,

Sealed cabinets have one disadvantage and that is that with a driver inside the Fs or the resonant point of the speaker in the cabinet will cause a huge hump in impedance as seen by the amplifier. Different amps and speakers will react differently and therefore I always caution my customers with what they read on line.

You can make your cabinet better with the addition of 1 or 2 aperiodic vents. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/flares/ports/vents/scanspeak-290001-aperiodic-vent-ssv/

These are not ports they basically change the impedance as seen by the amplifier and allows the amplifier to work better. In my 4x12 slant I have 2 green back on the bottom, 2 Blue Alnico on top and two aperoodic vents on the back panel.

I would also not count out the Warehouse speakers. Their Alnico 8 and 10 are far better than anything I tried. I have the 12" Alnico in now for a new combo I am going to offer.

Thanks,
Gordon

Yeah, I've considered venting the cabs, however I also have a Mesa 2x12 which is an open back. That 2x12 does lack a lot of bottom end thump and I LIKE thump. Makes things feel alive yeah? I know venting isn't the same as an open back but...I like that it's got a lot of life to the cab.

I really enjoyed your speaker experiment, as I've rolled Greenies, V30's, H30's and T75's in various combinations through 5 cabs and with 4 amps. Your descriptions are accurate and entertaining. I'll wager a bet - you'll change your mind again and again if you're like most of us. It's fun and maddening at the same time.

I'm low-key considering swapping the H30 for something else because the brightness SOMETIMES can be an issue, but I also don't think there's such thing as a perfect speaker that does everything you want. The Cream Alnico has some fizz and is sloppy in general (which is why it's oh so pretty). The GB needs to be pushed to be glorious, has a bit of a murky bottom end and can be a tad grindy in an unpleasant way. The V30 will USUALLY sound big and open, but on some things, the V30 sounds almost like it's rolling off all the top end? It can also be a tad sterile and lifeless. At the end of the day, both of my cabs with the speaker combination I have covers a WIDE range of noises so I'm telling myself that my cabs are "finished" just due to the versatility of them.

Interesting read, appreciate you sharing your experience. I have a T75 waiting on a new home. I’m running a 25w Greenback with a V-Type in 1x12 cabs. I like both but prefer the V - it just seems a little smoother to me. I’m not running them very loud so that might be different in a higher volume situation. Glad you found a good mix with your amps, speakers and cabs - Enjoy!

Never heard a V-Type in the flesh, but they were always in the back of my head as being worth a shot! To me they were in the ballpark of a V30s (though definitely NOT the same) and I was trying to get 4 speakers which sounded different to each other.

By the way

Can anybody explain why people like Creambacks? i've since heard the DV77 and a Creamback side by side and they're AWFULLY similar. The DV77 was the only speaker I didn't "get" and I've never heard a sample online of a Creamback that I liked...

 

[BRMarshall]

I actually have a second V-Type. I’ve got the wood for a 2x12 but need to order the hardware (feet, handles, grill) and get some gumption to build it this summer. It will be convertible because I like open back at home with the baffle slanted a little. I’m going to try the T75 (16) in the now available 1x12. The only Celestion I have that I don’t care for is the Rocket50. For me, you get what you pay for in this case. I have a couple Eight15s put in small combos - improved the sound in both.