Western Electric considering adding more tubes to their current USA production

[Matthews Guitars]

Normally when tubes get old and worn out they just fade away. They become less efficient, their transconductance drops, you get less gain and less output, and they just fade away and do no harm to the amplifier they're in.

SOME tubes fail in a more spectacular manner. But tubes that arc over internally or develop a space charge short are uncommon, especially among tubes that have already lasted a long time, because those kinds of faults usually manifest early in the tube's life.

In most cases it's perfectly safe to run tubes until they stop glowing. Filament death at umpteen thousand hours. But it'll be non-functional as a tube long before that point.

Back when I used to work on projectors that use three CRTs (which are a form of vacuum tube...), once I worked on a projector that had something like 45,000 hours of usage on the CRTs. 10,000 hours is full rated life. The projectors have their own hour counters in them that can be displayed on screen. The tubes were so toasted that I had to turn off all the lights and crank the projector contrast and brightness settings all the way just to get enough emission out of the tube face to be able to read the hours meter. I have never understood how it could have had that many hours on it as it stopped delivering a usable picture many tens of thousands of operating hours ago. Why even turn it on if it can't show a picure anymore? For the same reason I don't expect to encounter amps with tubes that are so worn that they don't generate any kind of usable sound.

 

[StrummerJoe]

Exclusive: Western Electric confirms plans to tackle the tube crisis with its Georgia factory

The pro-audio brand tells Guitar.com how it plans to bring US-made guitar amp tubes back – and why it doesn’t want to charge a premium for doing so.

guitar.com

 

[ricksdisconnected]

Exclusive: Western Electric confirms plans to tackle the tube crisis with its Georgia factory

The pro-audio brand tells Guitar.com how it plans to bring US-made guitar amp tubes back – and why it doesn’t want to charge a premium for doing so.

guitar.com

maybe my shipping and handling will be cheaper

 

[StrummerJoe]

maybe my shipping and handling will be cheaper

Good for you looking on the bright side!

 

[ricksdisconnected]

Good for you looking on the bright side!

well i was thinking about trades on the forum. roflmao.

 

[LoudStroud]

FYI… LA Vintage Gear recently acquired a massive tube collection. They thoroughly tested and graded all, which knowing the folks there, I fully trust. I’ve bought a handful of branded Mullard 12AX7/ECC83’s, Sylvania & RCA 6CA7’s, 6L6’s, 6V6’s. All at least spec, some better than spec. The prices are premium but when we’re comparing to what W.E. might be ultimately charging for their production tubes, it might be well worth checking out.

Sharing the same opinion as commenters above, that good American tubes could last the life of the amps they're put into, I feel it was a good investment.

 

[Torren61]

I'd gladly pay more for a quality American made vacuum tube. I already do except that they were made decades ago. Fortunately, I've been hoarding for a long time. I probably have enough tubes to last longer than me. I'd still want to try new American made tubes, though.

 

[Springfield Scooter]

Great news!
Western Electric is gearing up for production of American Tubes:

Western Electric gearing up for domestic production of guitar amp tubes to fulfil demand

“People are ready for higher quality, American-made tubes. We’re ready to meet that demand”

www.guitarworld.com

 

[1234_thumbwar]

I know I’ll be getting some 12ax7’s from them when they start putting tubes out again but I’m tempted to see how their KT88’s will sound in an SV20 if it can run them. I know I like the sound of a 6ca7 more than an EL34 so W.E. will have my cash for some KT88’s if they can get it done. If they don’t work in the SV20 I’ve got a 2204 to throw them in

 

[Matthews Guitars]

The question is, how long will it take? They'll have to settle on tubes to model their designs after, then reverse engineer them, build the fixtures to make those parts, make prototypes, assemble them, test them, burn them in, test them again, life test them.....don't expect anything in the next several months.

If they are making and selling a single new tube model by the end of the year I'll be moderately impressed.

 

[saxon68]

The question is, how long will it take? They'll have to settle on tubes to model their designs after, then reverse engineer them, build the fixtures to make those parts, make prototypes, assemble them, test them, burn them in, test them again, life test them.....don't expect anything in the next several months.

If they are making and selling a single new tube model by the end of the year I'll be moderately impressed.

I think they said they’re tooling up. They've got the know-how, it should be just a replication of a process.

 

[jeffb]

All guitar amplifier tubes came from HiFi. Guitar amplifiers were always a niche industry; they had to use what was available because they didn't have the wherewithal to make something purpose-designed. The power amplifier tubes that say, Marshall and Fender used were all used in HiFi amplifiers. The tubes that we were able to buy are made to certain specs. It's up to the guitar amp maker to make it sound a certain way.

The difference comes from how a given manufacturer deviates from spec. Take the EL34 and it's American counterpart, the 6CA7. The 6CA7 has a bigger plate structure with elements spaced further apart. This gives it a specific sound that can be described as beefier on the lower end. The classic EL34 made by Mullard had a smaller plate structure with elements closer together that gave it a characteristic sound that emphasizes the higher end. They both bias at the same point and have the same plate dissipation, etc. But they sound slightly different.

What primarily governs the sound is how closely they manufacture the tube to (mechanical) specs. An EH-branded EL34 will sound substantially the same as a Mullard-branded EL34 as they are made in the same factory to (hopefully) the same mechanical specs. What separates them is how well they meet electrical specs regarding bias and cutoff, and some other electrical parameters.

I suspect that they will be able to make great tubes - it ain't easy to make a 300B for the crowd that they have been serving. Audiophiles are every bit as picky as guitar players, maybe even moreso.

I understand the history of tubes and their usage, however many tubes designed originally for HI FI use fell out of favor or never really caught on because they did not deliver on what the Hi FI crowd wanted /needed and became far more desirable for the guitar crowd- EL 84 for example. EL84s are not really "serious" tubes for Hi FI users as they serve a very niche market- low wattage small systems that were made as "entry level" products.

Westen Electric have specifically stated their design philosophy with tubes is for minimal distortion and increased headroom. IOW- traits that are wonderful for Hi FI users, and not necessarily guitar players.

I'll wait it out for the reviews.

 

[FutureProf88]

I understand the history of tubes and their usage, however many tubes designed originally for HI FI use fell out of favor or never really caught on because they did not deliver on what the Hi FI crowd wanted /needed and became far more desirable for the guitar crowd- EL 84 for example. EL84s are not really "serious" tubes for Hi FI users as they serve a very niche market- low wattage small systems that were made as "entry level" products.

Westen Electric have specifically stated their design philosophy with tubes is for minimal distortion and increased headroom. IOW- traits that are wonderful for Hi FI users, and not necessarily guitar players.

I'll wait it out for the reviews.

But, remembering that those old tubes were meant for hi-fi applications, then theoretically a tube designed for increased headroom might very well sound like a vintage tube.

 

[Travis Tritten]

So click on the link and fill out the form and tell Western Electric you are interested.

https://www.westernelectric.com/expand

Done!

 

[jeffb]

But, remembering that those old tubes were meant for hi-fi applications, then theoretically a tube designed for increased headroom might very well sound like a vintage tube.

Sure- they could sound amazing, they could sound great, but not worth what they will charge for them compared to JJ or NS. All I'm saying is there is a different design philosophy going on at WE, compared to say Mullard, or RCA, or GE. WE is making niche products for a niche market, and has to deliver what that market wants and only what that market wants. They have zero experience providing for the guitar market * The old tube manufacturers were building a variety of tubes that powered the entire world when tube tech was a necessity, not just a hobby.

This is why I will wait for the reviews. By all means everyone else should buy away blind if they have the wherewithal to do so.


*obviously, as in their survey they failed to mention what is likely the most desired tube of all when it comes to guitar amps- the EL34.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

“People are ready for higher quality, American-made tubes. We’re ready to meet that demand and increase production capacity accordingly."

The questions that come to my mind are "how will they sound?" Are the engineers aware and/or privvy to what guitarists really want/need? Or are they the same kinds of engineers who "IMPROVED" Fender amp quality in the '60s by designing out that "Nasty Distortion" that the amps exhibited? Higher technical quality "on paper" doesn't always equate to better sound!

And for that matter, get ten guitarists listening to the same amp and you'll likely get ten different opinions of which settings "sound" best! My guess here is that the 12A?7 variants may end up being very "technically" robust, strong and trouble free, for use in rigorously demanding functions, like cathode follower and/or phase inverter, but the actual tone produced in other positions is still yet to be seen! Of course a really smart company would take a very close look at the most popular and revered variants and work hard to duplicate/mimic those variants' performance!

Either way, I applaud the folks at Western Electric for stepping up to the plate!

Just My ,
Gene

 

[Dogs of Doom]

this is the 6th thread on this...

 

[FutureProf88]

Sure- they could sound amazing, they could sound great, but not worth what they will charge for them compared to JJ or NS. All I'm saying is there is a different design philosophy going on at WE, compared to say Mullard, or RCA, or GE. WE is making niche products for a niche market, and has to deliver what that market wants and only what that market wants. They have zero experience providing for the guitar market * The old tube manufacturers were building a variety of tubes that powered the entire world when tube tech was a necessity, not just a hobby.

This is why I will wait for the reviews. By all means everyone else should buy away blind if they have the wherewithal to do so.


*obviously, as in their survey they failed to mention what is likely the most desired tube of all when it comes to guitar amps- the EL34.

BUT... their design philosophy in building their 300B is similar to that of the old tube manufacturers that people revere today. Even tubes like the EL34 were made with an idea to limit their distortion when they were used to power the world. It just so happened that guitarists found the distortion characteristics of those tubes pleasing. The distortion characteristics were an accident that engineers were trying to get out of those tubes. My point is that a high quality tube that is meant for high headroom and low distortion may very well deliver an experience much closer to an old Mullard or RCA than other current production versions of those tubes. And, if customers filled out the survey and WE listened (which it sounds like they did as they later added the EL34 to the survey), they likely saw that guitarists are a price sensitive bunch because we treat tubes as consumable items. But if these things cost 3x what a JJ costs and are that much better of a tube, and carry a warranty similar to the warranty WE gives to their 300B, it will likely be a solid buy over time.

 

[jeffb]

BUT... their design philosophy in building their 300B is similar to that of the old tube manufacturers that people revere today. Even tubes like the EL34 were made with an idea to limit their distortion when they were used to power the world. It just so happened that guitarists found the distortion characteristics of those tubes pleasing. The distortion characteristics were an accident that engineers were trying to get out of those tubes. My point is that a high quality tube that is meant for high headroom and low distortion may very well deliver an experience much closer to an old Mullard or RCA than other current production versions of those tubes. And, if customers filled out the survey and WE listened (which it sounds like they did as they later added the EL34 to the survey), they likely saw that guitarists are a price sensitive bunch because we treat tubes as consumable items. But if these things cost 3x what a JJ costs and are that much better of a tube, and carry a warranty similar to the warranty WE gives to their 300B, it will likely be a solid buy over time..

Everything is speculation right now. As I stated, I will wait and see. You can do you. I'm not sure why that is controversial, but :Shrug:

 

[FutureProf88]

Everything is speculation right now. As I stated, I will wait and see. You can do you. I'm not sure why that is controversial, but :Shrug:

I don't see how there is any controversy about anything. You made a point earlier that I interpreted as expressing doubt about this company's capability regarding the manufacturing of guitar amp tubes because of their focus on the hi-fi market, which has a different focus. My only point is that their focus on the hi-fi market may help their equipment sound good. Nowhere did I say that your decision to wait and see was a bad one. I was pointing out that there may be reason for optimism precisely because this company is coming from the hi-fi market, which is where all of the old audio equipment manufacturers were coming from. I also plan to wait and see how much this company wants for their products. But, if they are priced within some sort of reason I'm going to give them a shake.