Western Electric considering adding more tubes to their current USA production

[jeffb]

I don't see how there is any controversy about anything. You made a point earlier that I interpreted as expressing doubt about this company's capability regarding the manufacturing of guitar amp tubes because of their focus on the hi-fi market, which has a different focus. My only point is that their focus on the hi-fi market may help their equipment sound good. Nowhere did I say that your decision to wait and see was a bad one. I was pointing out that there may be reason for optimism precisely because this company is coming from the hi-fi market, which is where all of the old audio equipment manufacturers were coming from. I also plan to wait and see how much this company wants for their products. But, if they are priced within some sort of reason I'm going to give them a shake.

Understood. As I stated previously, you may be right! And I may be totally wrong. My wallet says I have to wait and see.

I'm "cautiously optimistic ". But I'm naturally cynical and a skeptic based on my life experiences.

 

[XTRXTR]

From an engineering standpoint there are much harder things to design. These guys will have a century of tube knowledge to pull from. They already make tubes.

It's not like a new invention. The fact is better alloys and processes can be done now. Perhaps they will make something very special.

It really comes down to ra, mu, and gm which are all AC signal response. The guys with modelers seem to think it can be replicated... Why can't tubes be?

Computer mathematical modeling wasn't a tool the NOS mfrs were able to utilize. So I expect really good stuff.

 

[fitz]

this is the 6th thread on this...

View attachment 104734

to the forum.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

From an engineering standpoint there are much harder things to design. These guys will have a century of tube knowledge to pull from. They already make tubes.

It not like a new invention. The fact is better alloys and processes can be done now. Perhaps they will make something very special.

It really comes down to ra, u, and gm which is an AC signal response. The guys with modelers seem to think it can be replicated... Why can't tubes be?

Computer mathematical modeling wasn't a tool the NOS mfrs were able to utilize. So I expect really good stuff.

I'd venture to say that they've probably tooled their own 12AX7 types & EL34 - KT88 types throughout their long history, whether they outsourced & rebranded at some points along the way,. I'd bet that they have all their papers on what they did back then. Possibly have some of the machinery...

 

[FutureProf88]

Understood. As I stated previously, you may be right! And I may be totally wrong. My wallet says I have to wait and see.

I'm "cautiously optimistic ". But I'm naturally cynical and a skeptic based on my life experiences.

I gotta have high hopes for this or else I have to learn to like Kemper

 

[Matthews Guitars]

This Western Electric has so far made only 300B type tubes. But they may be in possession of some tooling and data regarding the making of other tube types.

Even then, as I said earlier, it's going to take some time for them to get the line up and running and making high quality, reliable tubes.

If you were to review just the Blackburn Mullard tube factory tour videos on youtube, you'd start to understand what all goes into the production of just a single tube type.

 

[jeffb]

I gotta have high hopes for this or else I have to learn to like Kemper

You and me both.

Those profiles sound great as a recorded tone. Still kinda weird in the room. But my understanding is you can just ignore the speaker sim and run your own cab(?)

 

[Dogs of Doom]

merged 6 threads...

 

[Dogs of Doom]

This Western Electric has so far made only 300B type tubes. But they may be in possession of some tooling and data regarding the making of other tube types.

Even then, as I said earlier, it's going to take some time for them to get the line up and running and making high quality, reliable tubes.

If you were to review just the Blackburn Mullard tube factory tour videos on youtube, you'd start to understand what all goes into the production of just a single tube type.

dude, you're smoking something...

Western Electric Tubes

They've been in business since the 1800s...

 

[ibmorjamn]

this is the 6th thread on this...

View attachment 104734

So appropriately:

 

[Matthews Guitars]

Dogs of Doom, no, I'm reading something.

Company History — Western Electric - Maker of electron tubes and high fidelity

The Western Electric of today is shaped by a rich and sometimes unexpected history. This narrative style timeline pays respect to the people, places, and events that electrify what we do today.

www.westernelectric.com

The person(s) that currently holds the Western Electric property rights obtained those rights in 1995.
In 2016 they obtained the rights to ALL remaining WE intellectual property.


1992

As the slow but steady worldwide resurgence of tube sound continues, entrepreneur Charles G. Whitener of Westrex Corporation, approaches AT&T to acquire intellectual property and a license to manufacture and sell vacuum tubes and audio equipment under the Western Electric name.


1995

After years of negotiation, AT&T grants Whitener the Western Electric brand license to manufacture vacuum tubes and audio equipment. He would obtain engineering drawings from Bell Labs and begin setting up tube manufacturing in Kansas City.


1996

Whitener finalizes purchase of Western Electric intellectual property and equipment to manufacture and sell the 300B vacuum tube, among other types, with the hired help of former Kansas City Works employees. That year, Whitener successfully demonstrated the 300B to audio equipment manufacturers at the Consumer Electronics Show.

1997

The newly created run of 300B electron tubes begins shipping worldwide. The original name in high fidelity had returned to the scene and a new generation of listeners could experience the emotional impact of tube sound. Japan’s MJ Audio magazine names 300B “Product of the Year.”


2003

300B manufacturing continues at a Huntsville, Alabama facility to meet continued demand. Between this year and 2012, Western Electric focused on serving contracts for the United States Department of Defense, supplying tubes (6EJ7, 577W, 576A) and test sets to the U.S. Naval Surface Warfare Center.


2004

Western Electric introduces new high fidelity audio equipment like the 203C CD Player and amplifiers.


So with that information having been firmly established, let's not operate under any false assumptions that today's Western Electric is the same company of old.


2013

Western Electric moves its headquarters to Rossville, Georgia to begin planning a newly imagined manufacturing facility for tubes and various other high-fidelity equipment.


2016

Control and ownership of all remaining intellectual property rights under the Western Electric trademark are transferred to Westrex Corporation from Alcatel-Lucent, successor of Western Electric’s telecom operations.


2017

Renovations begin at a new Rossville, Georgia property to clear the way for a new tube assembly operation. The vision of this new facility is to modernize 300B manufacturing, introduce additional tube lines, and house research and design of new products—all under the proud Western Electric name.

2018

The Rossville Works facility is officially established. This year marks the 80th anniversary of the 300B electron tube. To further celebrate, the 91E Integrated Amplifier, a powerful, single-ended companion to the 300B, is successfully demonstrated at major trade shows in Chicago and Munich.


Today's Western Electric is clearly not the Western Electric of old. There has been a total change of ownership.

This would be evident if you had simply read the history page at the Western Electric website.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Dogs of Doom, no, I'm reading something.

Company History — Western Electric - Maker of electron tubes and high fidelity

The Western Electric of today is shaped by a rich and sometimes unexpected history. This narrative style timeline pays respect to the people, places, and events that electrify what we do today.

www.westernelectric.com

The person(s) that currently holds the Western Electric property rights obtained those rights in 1995.
In 2016 they obtained the rights to ALL remaining WE intellectual property.


1992

As the slow but steady worldwide resurgence of tube sound continues, entrepreneur Charles G. Whitener of Westrex Corporation, approaches AT&T to acquire intellectual property and a license to manufacture and sell vacuum tubes and audio equipment under the Western Electric name.


1995

After years of negotiation, AT&T grants Whitener the Western Electric brand license to manufacture vacuum tubes and audio equipment. He would obtain engineering drawings from Bell Labs and begin setting up tube manufacturing in Kansas City.


1996

Whitener finalizes purchase of Western Electric intellectual property and equipment to manufacture and sell the 300B vacuum tube, among other types, with the hired help of former Kansas City Works employees. That year, Whitener successfully demonstrated the 300B to audio equipment manufacturers at the Consumer Electronics Show.

1997

The newly created run of 300B electron tubes begins shipping worldwide. The original name in high fidelity had returned to the scene and a new generation of listeners could experience the emotional impact of tube sound. Japan’s MJ Audio magazine names 300B “Product of the Year.”


2003

300B manufacturing continues at a Huntsville, Alabama facility to meet continued demand. Between this year and 2012, Western Electric focused on serving contracts for the United States Department of Defense, supplying tubes (6EJ7, 577W, 576A) and test sets to the U.S. Naval Surface Warfare Center.


2004

Western Electric introduces new high fidelity audio equipment like the 203C CD Player and amplifiers.


So with that information having been firmly established, let's not operate under any false assumptions that today's Western Electric is the same company of old.


2013

Western Electric moves its headquarters to Rossville, Georgia to begin planning a newly imagined manufacturing facility for tubes and various other high-fidelity equipment.


2016

Control and ownership of all remaining intellectual property rights under the Western Electric trademark are transferred to Westrex Corporation from Alcatel-Lucent, successor of Western Electric’s telecom operations.


2017

Renovations begin at a new Rossville, Georgia property to clear the way for a new tube assembly operation. The vision of this new facility is to modernize 300B manufacturing, introduce additional tube lines, and house research and design of new products—all under the proud Western Electric name.

2018

The Rossville Works facility is officially established. This year marks the 80th anniversary of the 300B electron tube. To further celebrate, the 91E Integrated Amplifier, a powerful, single-ended companion to the 300B, is successfully demonstrated at major trade shows in Chicago and Munich.


Today's Western Electric is clearly not the Western Electric of old. There has been a total change of ownership.

This would be evident if you had simply read the history page at the Western Electric website.

yes, but they own all of the history...

that same page starts here:

Company History​

The Western Electric of today is shaped by a rich and sometimes unexpected history. This narrative style timeline pays respect to the people, places, and events that electrify what we do today.

1869
An entrepreneur, Enos Barton and an inventor, Elisha Gray, partnered to supply a rapidly expanding world of electricity and modern communications with quality manufacturing. Booming demand for electrical equipment was good for business. But Barton and Gray’s small Cleveland workshop was also a place for imagination, always buzzing with the energy of something new. This is the original vision of Western Electric.

1872
The Western Electric Manufacturing Company is established after a move to Chicago. Orders for electrical equipment surged. The name grew in recognition and became associated with dependable quality and original design, supplying big names like Western Union and Morse Telegraph Instruments.

1876
Alexander Graham Bell files the first patent for the telephone, demonstrating it in the same year to the public at the Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia. There, Western Electric won five first-class awards—no small feat for a company less than ten years old and with only sixty-five people on payroll.

1877
The American Bell Telephone Company forms. By 1882, Western Electric had become a major manufacturer for American Bell, the start of an historic partnership and a new era of innovation and growth for the company. To meet new demand, Western Electric began operations in New York City, setting up shop in a former Western Union building.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

My point is that Whitener's Western Electric owns the IP rights to the Western Electric legacy but it isn't the same company,
and did not acquire all of the legacy company's equipment and manufacturing operations. They focused on the 300B and , as stated above, a few other tube types.

It's a smaller company with a relatively small but specialized product portfolio. And that's a good thing. They're small enough to be adaptable to the changing market,
and are apparently quite willing to do so.

I've been in touch with them via email and will be submitting some requested tube samples to them for them to evaluate. STR 387s in this case. If they're going to make a 6L6, might as well model it on the best type ever made.

 

[FutureProf88]

You and me both.

Those profiles sound great as a recorded tone. Still kinda weird in the room. But my understanding is you can just ignore the speaker sim and run your own cab(?)

I think so. They make a powered head that has a 600 watt solid state power amp attached to the modeling system. So you can hook it up to a cab, but they also make their own cabinet that they say is designed for the Kemper head. Of the multi-modelers I think that the Positive Grid Spark is the most interesting because you set it up on a computer and then it has physical controls like an amp. I find this attractive.

Edit: Positive Grid Bias is the big one and the Spark is the little portable one.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

My guess is that the pricing structure will be representative of the "reasonable, but not cheap end" of the properly tested NOS market. If the quality is there, well that's not too bad!
Just My Two Tubes,
Gene

 

[MarshallDog]

I gotta have high hopes for this or else I have to learn to like Kemper

GOD no!

 

[Matthews Guitars]

Fractal makes a better unit than Kemper in any event. But to get the most out of it, you'll need to spend time learning it.

As for tube pricing, WE can target a price point above JJ tubes if they have the quality and the guarantee. They'll sell tubes.

If they work quickly, they may be able to start selling new tube types before we see new Sovtek/EH-etc brands coming from Russia.

 

[Browneyesound]

My guess is look at the prices for NOS US/Euro tubes now, and it will be somewhere near that price point if the quality is there.

 

[mad5066]

My point is that Whitener's Western Electric owns the IP rights to the Western Electric legacy but it isn't the same company,
and did not acquire all of the legacy company's equipment and manufacturing operations. They focused on the 300B and , as stated above, a few other tube types.

It's a smaller company with a relatively small but specialized product portfolio. And that's a good thing. They're small enough to be adaptable to the changing market,
and are apparently quite willing to do so.

I've been in touch with them via email and will be submitting some requested tube samples to them for them to evaluate. STR 387s in this case. If they're going to make a 6L6, might as well model it on the best type ever made.

Glad you're providing them a sample STR387, I hope that's what they model to produce.

From the sounds of everything we may even be able to purchase guitar amp tubes from WE end of the year.

 

[Pete Farrington]

they own all of the history...

Money can buy stuff, artefacts, maybe even peoples’ hearts and minds, but not history

Take the EL34 and it's American counterpart, the 6CA7. The 6CA7 has a bigger plate structure with elements spaced further apart. This gives it a specific sound that can be described as beefier on the lower end. The classic EL34 made by Mullard had a smaller plate structure with elements closer together

Comparing my Mullard EL34 and GE 6CA7, the EL34 looks to have a suppressor grid whereas the 6CA7 a beam forming plate.
I suspect that’s fundamental, with all other differences following from it.
Looking into the holes on the sides of the anode -
EL34 https://music-electronics-forum.com/filedata/fetch?id=955621&d=1647543264
6CA7 https://music-electronics-forum.com/filedata/fetch?id=955623&d=1647543264