What causes raised frets?

[Rikamortis]

I know about humidity causing a change in action due to the wood shrinking and expanding when the humidity levels change with the seasons. I know that it can also cause fret sprout, but what about frets popping up? I've never had this issue until I moved to TN and now almost every single one of my guitars have raised frets and I can't keep them down. I tap them back down and they last a couple of days before they raise back up again. It's always the same fret (or frets) that keep popping up over and over. Even my Traditional that I JUST GOT already has 2 or 3 raised frets.

I'm at a loss, keeping them in a case full time doesn't seem to make any difference. Like I said, never had this issue until I moved to TN. I'm from Florida where the humidity is like a tropical rain forest most of the year and then it gets significantly drier in the winter and I didn't have this issue down there.

It's so frustrating!

I just bought my first Thermometer with humidity sensor just to see what the humidity is (or if it fluctuates) in my apartment daily. It's all I can think of.

Same thing that causes fret sprout and not enough glue in the frets but when the wood shrinks and expands the frets get loose and they pop up You have to reglue them or just knock them back down

 

[Chris-in-LA]

Really? I was concerned that maybe I was oiling them too much. I can certainly try that. I love the smell of lemon oil on my fingers in the morning!

I checked a little while ago, seems ColorTone lemon oil is basically lemon flavored mineral oil.

Not to start an argument but I wouldn’t oil 2 to 4 times a year. I’m fact, I don’t oil at all. I worry that getting that much oil under the frets could cause that kind of problem.

 

[Ttepper]

Yes, frets are normally glued in when pressed. Some use hide glue, some use cyanoacrylate.

Over oiling the fretboard will make this problem worse. Don't do that. I used to oil them like crazy when I was younger. It's not necessary. It just needs enough to keep grime from holding up and to prevent the top from drying out. The oil doesn't need to soak or anything like that. Wipe on with a cloth and clean right off. White mineral oil. Butcher block oil... I don't know where the misconception ever got started that lemon oil was a good idea but lemon oil has acid in it and that's the last thing you want on exposed wood. Same with that Dunlop trash. It's got silicone in it that gunks up the pores in the wood. Don't use that either.

Tapping or pressing the frets in usually doesn't work. Sometimes you get lucky and they will stick but they're likely going to pop back out. They need to be pulled, glued and reseated. It does take specialized tools. When frets popping is an issue a fret hammer is not the right tool. You'll hammer in one side, then the other side will pop. It needs a fret press to put even pressure on the fret as it's seated and can be held down while the glue dries.

I worked on a Gibson Explorer that had a similar issue. I ended up having to pull the frets and reseat all 22 of them. It had maybe half a dozen bad ones but I had only fixed those there would have been a chance the guitar would go back to the owner and other frets would pop in the future. I couldn't tell you specifically if they weren't radiused or seated correctly from the factory or not or if another condition caused the frets to pop. It's not a catastrophic failure though and it's not difficult to correct as long as you have the correct tools. If you don't own the tools to do full fretwork, just take it to someone that does. Way less stress and they'll be able to do it for way less money than even the bare minimum tools cost to do it yourself.

Brent, I remember the video of you doing this work on the explorer!

 

[dro]

I got an idea. Maybe you need a control. So.
Buy yourself a brand new Les Paul Custom Shop guitar.
And see if it happens again. If it does or not.
You'll be left with a Custom Shop Les Paul

 

[Lo-Tek]

Not to start an argument but I wouldn’t oil 2 to 4 times a year. I’m fact, I don’t oil at all. I worry that getting that much oil under the frets could cause that kind of problem.

I only oil if a fretboard looks dry. I have one guitar with a rather light rosewood board that gets oiled a few times a year- my other guitars I oil less, if at all.
Never have had a problem with frets lifting. I just use a little oil and then wipe it right off. I can't imagine such trace amounts penetrate very deep or hurt the frets. ymmv

I have a small bottle of Planet Waves fretboard conditioner- have had it for years and it's still practically full.

 

[Kutt]

 

[Kutt]

Did you or someone else buff your frets at any point per chance?

It's probably a rare occurrence, but I've read about existing glue in fret slots warming up and loosening from excessive heat cause by buffing for too long.

 

[DirtySteve]

Did you or someone else buff your frets at any point per chance?

It's probably a rare occurrence, but I've read about existing glue in fret slots warming up and loosening from excessive heat cause by buffing for too long.

Not that I'm aware of and not since I've owned them. Highly unlikely since I'm dealing with multiple guitars here.

 

[David Copeland]

So when you change the AC temperature in your apartment your going to change the dew point and more than likely the relative humidity in the apartment. My advice is to set the temperature and leave it. Stop running the Temp up and down on a daily basis. BTW the latest advice from my power company is that this is the most efficient so it keeps your power bill lower compared with moving the temp up and down day to night.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

Maybe it's not the frets. Maybe the fingerboard's caving.

Like maybe you're squeezing the notes too hard: the frets spring back up, but the fret board stays flat.

 

[DirtySteve]

Maybe it's not the frets. Maybe the fingerboard's caving.

Like maybe you're squeezing the notes too hard: the frets spring back up, but the fret board stays flat.

It's my bionic pinky finger that's the hardest to control.

 

[Pirate Guidelines]

I know about humidity causing a change in action due to the wood shrinking and expanding when the humidity levels change with the seasons. I know that it can also cause fret sprout, but what about frets popping up? I've never had this issue until I moved to TN and now almost every single one of my guitars have raised frets and I can't keep them down. I tap them back down and they last a couple of days before they raise back up again. It's always the same fret (or frets) that keep popping up over and over. Even my Traditional that I JUST GOT already has 2 or 3 raised frets.

I'm at a loss, keeping them in a case full time doesn't seem to make any difference. Like I said, never had this issue until I moved to TN. I'm from Florida where the humidity is like a tropical rain forest most of the year and then it gets significantly drier in the winter and I didn't have this issue down there.

It's so frustrating!

I just bought my first Thermometer with humidity sensor just to see what the humidity is (or if it fluctuates) in my apartment daily. It's all I can think of.

Ben Calhoun is a guitar tech that shows up on some Rhett Schull youtubes. This video has some settup magic, (especially the "pull the string back one fret" trick) really helped me.

Fast forward to 5:10 and he claims over oiling the fingerboard will cause the frets to pop up. I'm not saying you are over oiling, but watch the short segment and see how it fits with your fret problems.

Hope this helps.

"Pull the string back one fret" soooo rocks.

 

[Keysdweller]

This is an interesting subject and I had to read every post as I have never heard of this in my 50 plus years of playing guitar. I live in the Florida Keys where the average humidity in the summer is 70-70% outside and the indoor air-conditioned area is about 50-60%. Temperatures are 90's in the summer and 70's in the winter. I play my guitars in both air-conditioned and outside environments as do all musicians down here. I also lived in Atlanta, GA for many years which has weather comparable to Tennessee where my guitars were in air-conditioned and outside environments on a regular basis. Again, I have never heard of raised frets. Is this just your electric guitars of acoustic guitars also? I have 78-year-old Martin acoustic guitars which have been played and stored everywhere by my father in their lifetime which have no fret problems like this. I will be reading this forum to see what more members post about this and asking other guitarists down here if they have ever experienced this.

 

[Keysdweller]

Ben Calhoun is a guitar tech that shows up on some Rhett Schull youtubes. This video has some settup magic, (especially the "pull the string back one fret" trick) really helped me.

Fast forward to 5:10 and he claims over oiling the fingerboard will cause the frets to pop up. I'm not saying you are over oiling, but watch the short segment and see how it fits with your fret problems.

Hope this helps.

"Pull the string back one fret" soooo rocks.

Interesting video. I don't leave the oil on my fretboards because I have heard that it will degrade the glue under the fretboard. This makes perfect sense about the frets coming loose also. Thanks for sharing.

 

[StrummerJoe]

In Florida the humidity was much more than it gets here. Here the humidity rides mostly 50 - mid 60% range in the summer with an occasional lower to mid 70s% now and then. Not bad at all to me being from Florida.

The frets are high in the middle, not the ends. Pics won't show you anything.

Also, the fret's I'm having trouble with are from the 12th and down towards the body where the truss rod has little to no affect.

Are you saying frets should be glued in? I didn't think they should be, but I'm tempted to have them glued down if that will solve the problem. I just can't understand why it's happening on almost all of my guitars. It just doesn't make any sense to me, but it has to be my doing, no way I just happened to buy guitars that all have the same factory default. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Yes they should be glued down. Water thin superglue.

 

[DirtySteve]

Ok, I think I'm on to something here, let me ask this...

On a guitar with binding like Gibson with the nibs where the fret ends don't extend thru the binding, is it possible that when the humidity is low that the fretboard wood can shrink just enough to cause the binding to pinch in on the fret ends making the fret lift up in the middle?

The reason I ask this is because the humidity in my apartment jumped up to 65% yesterday, last night and most of the day today and now my high frets aren't high anymore. I just got done playing and there are no raised frets today, they've laid back down. On both my Standard and my Traditional. It's the only thing that makes sense to me and it makes perfect sense to me.

I think I need to buy a humidifier, I think it stays mostly too dry in my apartment.

 

[What?]

"Pull the string back one fret" soooo rocks.

I have been doing that string length trick for a good minute, but I do 3rd to 4th fret length, i.e. a little shorter length than nut to first fret. I would say to experiment there to find what gives you the best number or wraps.

Also, I don't buy the idea of strings stretching. I think it's more about the winds around the posts tightening and settling into place, along with the strings at the ball ends forming shape to the bridge and settling. What I do is over-wind past pitch just a bit using a winder while plucking a string on another guitar that is tuned for reference (no tuner needed, as this is as very fast process), grabbing the string, and tugging upward away from the fretboard a few good times. Repeat until the pitch stops changing by a great amount after a few tugs, and you're done. I have seen other people do all sorts of stupid things (which I used to do too) such as doing string bends up and down the fretboard to 'stretch' the strings.

Both of those things I arrived at when I was playing a lot every day and doing frequent string changes on half a dozen guitars (every week). How I had been changing strings took too long, so I worked out a faster process. It used to take about 30 minutes per guitar, and that changed to about 30 minutes for 6 guitars.

 

[Oldpunk]

nvm

 

[StrummerJoe]

Binding nibs are not stronger than the frets.

 

[DirtySteve]

Binding nibs are not stronger than the frets.

It's not just the nibs, don't forget the tangs.