Chibson.....les Paul Copies...be Careful

[Dogs of Doom]

The problem isn't so much whether or not they are any good (or have certain intrinsic value), it's the fact that they are counterfeit & the selling point is that they have the Gibson logo & look. If they put a different mfgr logo (their own) & sold themselves as imports (instead of "Made in USA" - which they aren't), then I really wouldn't have an issue w/ them...

 

[Deep Purple fan]

There are scumbags trying to pass counterfeits for genuine standards and customs and trying to rip off buyers. A good used genuine GIBSON LES PAUL CUSTOM will be $2-3000 dollars. No matter how excellent the counterfeit guitar is its worth much less......$500 at best. The point is not whether the knockoffs are good, play great, look great, are fun to play...... The issue is to avoid being ripped off by a liar trying to sell you a guitar not worth much for a lot. If you buy a a clone, know you're buying a clone, pay fair market value and love that guitar ---Cool.

 

[fat_lenny]

The problem isn't so much whether or not they are any good (or have certain intrinsic value), it's the fact that they are counterfeit & the selling point is that they have the Gibson logo & look. If they put a different mfgr logo (their own) & sold themselves as imports (instead of "Made in USA" - which they aren't), then I really wouldn't have an issue w/ them...

Which is why Tokai is so good. OK, not Chinese, but they are direct knockoff of Gibson, to a very high standard at a much lower price. But you know what you are buying when you get them.

If you can get past the name, you can get a very very good gibson style for a lot less.

 

[El Gringo]

Buyer beware , always buy from a reputable shop with a money back warranty .Usually 30 days .

 

[Photojazz]

I had a 2016 Gibson Flying V, I seriously question if it was a US guitar. Intonation was wonky on it, and the nut wasn't even cut right, the bottom E String would pop completely out of the nut! I took that sucker back and got me something else. taylor acoustic.

 

[chiliphil1]

I had a 2016 Gibson Flying V, I seriously question if it was a US guitar. Intonation was wonky on it, and the nut wasn't even cut right, the bottom E String would pop completely out of the nut! I took that sucker back and got me something else. taylor acoustic.

I just had a brand new US strat with big problems too. I think it's a matter of some "slipping through the cracks" because the replacement strat is spectacular.

 

[custom53]

I have to agree.. They used to be so freaking easy to spot but they are getting harder lately..

 

[Conghaille]

I have to admit, I've been exploring...let's say replicas that are made in China...and I'm tempted. For under $200 delivered you can get some version of many models. Considering that these are very likely the same workers who build Squiers and Epiphones, even if you compare it at that level, a "tele" with a one-piece maple neck and a full size body is still at least $250 in the US. For under $300 you can find almost any model made.

I get ya on quality. And there is the legal question (I saw an entry for "Dale Wilson Custom Shop Teles NOS" they had only 998 left in stock. LOL Dale's been busy!

But still, for like $230, the if the finish is anywhere close and the hardware is as picture, assuming some work and maybe new pups, that could be a very good guitar for under $450. Could be.

Is this the internal monologue of "contemplating a crime"?

The photos were beautiful on some of these.

 

[neikeel]

At the risk of being accused of faking, my son (with me looking over his shoulder) has just built a Les Paul replica. We bought a partly finished one piece mahogany neck with rosewood board, mahogany body (three piece) with solid maple book matched top. Time was a significant factor (sanding, sealing, nitro tints with rattle cans, more sanding, more lacquering, buffing etc). Then add the grovers, CTS and Switchcraft parts, Gibson hardware, BB3 bridge pup and SD Jazz neck, PIO pots. You can see that even with him raiding my parts drawers it is not a cheap process.
Costs are cut with bulk processes, cheaper timber (and I do not mean the cheap laminated bodies and bolt on necks we knew in the 70's) and (a lot) cheaper parts. That is how you get the $250 guitars that are just about playable. The serious fakes are arriving now with $1000 guitars which still leaves a $1500 or more profit margin. If these guys put their minds to it you will not be able to tell the difference.

 

[Conghaille]

I think there are two situations: 1) fakes that make it into the western mainstream distribution pool. So you spend $2500 on a Les Paul from Guitar Center, etc., and if it slips your notice, 6 mos. later you realize you've been had, or 2) You shop on Asian distribution sites with the complete knowledge that what you are buying is a copy, whether it's branded or not, and you get a reasonable facsimile of a Les Paul for $300.

It seems like in either case you are probably getting roughly the same instrument (accepting, of course, that production consistency is low), but to me (and I've sold guitars for a long time) that's not that different than most of the sub-$1000 market anyways. I've always said that you CAN get a fine $250 guitar and a very nice $400 guitar, BUT not EVERY guitar in those lines will be of acceptable build quality, fit, and finish. If you get one of the good ones, it can be a great guitar that will last a long time. You just need to spend the time and give close attention to the one you actually buy (put your hands on it).

So regarding these, I'd expect, for example, that a Chinese Gibson LP copy would be competing in guality with an epiphone LP standard--the least "true" LP branded instrument (with a fixed neck). You can't touch a new Epi LP Std for under $400 (excepting sales), so if I can buy a "Chibson" Les Paul from instrument makers who legitimately and illegitimately make guitars of the same quality all the time, for under $300, I think it's a risk (since I can't select the instrument), but I'd gamble that the product I'd receive would be at the very least workable and able to be made well playable. So at the LEAST, this is a $100 savings from an Epi, and if it has ANY Gibson components or features, or even Epu Pro+ features, the savings go up.

The gambler in me says it seems like it's worth trying once, and then if I'm wow'ed, why not keep on the wining streak until disappointed?

And truly, if the instrument isn't branded (on the guitar or reseller site), if they aren't being sued by Gibson, and if it passes any trade protections that are supposed to be in place, then I don't think there's anything wrong with buying such a guitar. In fact, if they don't claim it's a "Les Paul" or a "Gibson", then to me it's no worse than any Ibanez, ESP, etc. single cutaway.

Am I wrong?

 

[Dogs of Doom]

You seem to dismiss the fact that many of these illegal guitars get confiscated at customs, so you may not even get a guitar, but maybe a visit from the authorities for smuggling in counterfeit goods...

 

[Georgiatec]

What they look like and sound like is irrelevant, you are committing a crime by knowingly buying one. You will know it is fake if you are paying a few hundred instead of thousand. If you pay a few thousand for one you are stupid to boot. I haven't come across one yet that I haven't been able to spot in less than 10 seconds. Either know what you are buying or buy from a reputable dealer.

 

[Conghaille]

You seem to dismiss the fact that many of these illegal guitars get confiscated at customs, so you may not even get a guitar, but maybe a visit from the authorities for smuggling in counterfeit goods...

you are committing a crime by knowingly buying one.

Well this is core to my second question, and I'd really like input on this specific point, but to reiterate, I'm not talking about the first case where Chinese factories make Les Paul copies and sell them as Gibson Les Pauls--no question, that's illegal:

What I'm trying to get at is, if the guitar looks like a Les Paul, but at no point is it documented as a Gibson by the factory, sold as a Gibson by the reseller, or is it labeled anywhere on the instrument or box as a Gibson (or any brand name), then is it actually counterfeit, or is it just a Chinese single cutaway guitar? I'm not suggesting this isn't completely with question, but if it has no attempt to fake it's authenticity (no serial number, headstock branding, etc.), is it a fake or is it a similar looking guitar?

That's why I mentioned the lawsuit. Other companies have made guitars, been sued, and then changed them ridiculously slightly to allow their sale (the ESP Explorer clone, for example). How is this different if they never claim that it's a Gibson. (Again, I know some do in some cases, but I'm talking about this specific case.)

Thanks for the input!

 

[The Ozzk]

Kris Derrig's Les Paul copy = cool super famous. Rebellious act of rock n' roll defiance.

Chinese Les Paul copy = How dare they! Unleash the hounds!

Sorry, guys. This topic is full of double standards in my view. Inc.

 

[Conghaille]

Kris Derrig's Les Paul copy = cool super famous. Rebellious act of rock n' roll defiance.

Chinese Les Paul copy = How dare they! Unleash the hounds!

Of course Kris is an American artisan luthier and treasure, and seeks only the recognition of the artist. He certainly isn't some foreign factory worker getting a nickel an hour at the expense of valiant American workers and historic instrument companies.

 

[V-Type]

Well the couple Chibs I had were decent made but you could see the multi pieces of wood and lots of wood filler under the finish,pretty sloppy really. They were MIC B stock built at best with frets needing much leveling,proper cut nut,machine tuners,electronics all needed upgrades as well. Worth $200 new I guess if you want the look but Not even ballpark with how a Gibson sounds plays or feels imo. Get an Epi or a LTD they both make Great Gibson LP copies that are likely Better guitars.

 

[chiliphil1]

Kris Derrig's Les Paul copy = cool super famous. Rebellious act of rock n' roll defiance.

Chinese Les Paul copy = How dare they! Unleash the hounds!

Sorry, guys. This topic is full of double standards in my view. Inc.

I agree. As long as it doesn't say Gibson, it's fine..

There are some cork sniffers who think anything that shaped like a LP without saying Gibson is a "rip off" but I'm not one of them. Sure, I think Gibson is better than the other single cuts BUT that doesnt mean that they are somehow "fakes" "rip offs" or "copies" Ibanez and ESP make great single cut bodies which are definately not copies of Gibson designs.

 

[Georgiatec]

Nothing up with a copy that has Tokai, Ibanez or whatever on the headstock. What I am referring to are Chinese copies that say "Gibson, made in the USA" on the headstock. Fender produces great guitars in China at a fraction of the cost of the USA made models, but you are not mislead into thinking you are buying a USA made guitar.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

Can anyone produce some detailed photos of fake Les Pauls? Not the obvious ones, I mean the ones that are actually fooling somewhat experienced buyers. I'm curious to know if I can be fooled. I've been playing and staring at these guitars since the invention of the wheel. The only thing that might actually fool me is a guitar built like Slash's fake AFD Les Paul - where a private luthier has taken great pains to reproduce an exact replica. But I can't see how it would even be cost-effective for such a luthier to do that today when Historic Reissues are all over the place now.

 

[chiliphil1]

Can anyone produce some detailed photos of fake Les Pauls? Not the obvious ones, I mean the ones that are actually fooling somewhat experienced buyers. I'm curious to know if I can be fooled. I've been playing and staring at these guitars since the invention of the wheel. The only thing that might actually fool me is a guitar built like Slash's fake AFD Les Paul - where a private luthier has taken great pains to reproduce an exact replica. But I can't see how it would even be cost-effective for such a luthier to do that today when Historic Reissues are all over the place now.

Start here http://www.tradetang.com/wholesale-Electric-Guitar_c220507.html some hit and miss but they are ALL Chinese made fakes.