First Marshall for a Fender/Vox guy: SV20 vs Vintage Modern/2266

[gswearengin]

Hey y'all,

I know this has been discussed a lot, and I feel like I've read most of it (and watched most of the videos) by now. But, I like to think my situation may be a little different than most...

I've always been more of a Fender/Vox guy, but I'm ready to get my first Marshall. I am much more interested in classic Marshall "dirty cleans" than higher gain stuff (although I do enjoy that from time to time). My Marshall icon is Jimi Hendrix, although a lot of my heroes have used them. I come more from the Johnny Marr/Peter Buck school in general, and tend to prefer Fender-style guitars over Gibsons (although I do have and use both).I am a basement warrior...no band, no gigs, so I know either of these is overkill. I can play loud sometimes and do have a couple of attenuation options. So in my case, the quieter the better...

I had pretty much made up my mind to go with an SV20H with a 2061cx (potentially with a Heritage G12M and G12H-55, both of which I already have), but a 2061x has turned up not too far away from me at a very good price and I am sorely tempted. I love that it is hand wired (I am bummed that even the pots and the tube sockets are PCB-mounted on the SV20), but I'm worried about the limited controls, I would prefer EL34's over EL84's, and I'm concerned about volume with either model.

Is the 2061x more like a JTM than a 1959? Does it do the dirty cleans thing as well as or better than the SV20H? Can it Jimi (I can't really, but that's another story...)? Which one is louder, and do either of them have an inside voice at all?

My other amps are a Fender Princeton Reverb reissue (hopefully soon to be replaced by hand wired Deluxe Reverb kit that I need to get around to building), a hand wired Vox AC15 with a blue, a tweed deluxe that I built, and a Laney Lionheart L5T-112, which will likely be sold once I've got a real Marshall that I'm happy with. Obviously I am looking to improve on the Laney as far as authenticity and expand my tonal horizons...

I would certainly appreciate any thoughts on whether I should check out this deal or sit on my hands and hold out for the SV20.

Thanks!

Gary

 

[Gene Ballzz]

Hey y'all,

I know this has been discussed a lot, and I feel like I've read most of it (and watched most of the videos) by now. But, I like to think my situation may be a little different than most...

I've always been more of a Fender/Vox guy, but I'm ready to get my first Marshall. I am much more interested in classic Marshall "dirty cleans" than higher gain stuff (although I do enjoy that from time to time). My Marshall icon is Jimi Hendrix, although a lot of my heroes have used them. I come more from the Johnny Marr/Peter Buck school in general, and tend to prefer Fender-style guitars over Gibsons (although I do have and use both).I am a basement warrior...no band, no gigs, so I know either of these is overkill. I can play loud sometimes and do have a couple of attenuation options. So in my case, the quieter the better...

I had pretty much made up my mind to go with an SV20H with a 2061cx (potentially with a Heritage G12M and G12H-55, both of which I already have), but a 2061x has turned up not too far away from me at a very good price and I am sorely tempted. I love that it is hand wired (I am bummed that even the pots and the tube sockets are PCB-mounted on the SV20), but I'm worried about the limited controls, I would prefer EL34's over EL84's, and I'm concerned about volume with either model.

Is the 2061x more like a JTM than a 1959? Does it do the dirty cleans thing as well as or better than the SV20H? Can it Jimi (I can't really, but that's another story...)? Which one is louder, and do either of them have an inside voice at all?

My other amps are a Fender Princeton Reverb reissue (hopefully soon to be replaced by hand wired Deluxe Reverb kit that I need to get around to building), a hand wired Vox AC15 with a blue, a tweed deluxe that I built, and a Laney Lionheart L5T-112, which will likely be sold once I've got a real Marshall that I'm happy with. Obviously I am looking to improve on the Laney as far as authenticity and expand my tonal horizons...

I would certainly appreciate any thoughts on whether I should check out this deal or sit on my hands and hold out for the SV20.

Thanks!

Gary

FIRST> to the forum!

NEXT> If the difference in "shekles" isn't a huge issue, I gotta say the SV20.
> Loop vs none.
> EL34 vs EL84 power section.
> More robust preamp/EQ control vs somewhat limited.
> Channel jumping provides a lot of complexity of tone and character, whereas I believe the two channels of the 2061 are actually out of phase from each other, limiting the usefulness of channel jumping.
> 20 watt/5 watt choice vs always 20 watts.
> Sounds fabulous vs sounds pretty good.
> The SV20 will do "dirty cleans" in spades (especially with a great single coil Strat or Tele) and is VERY close to the response of a 1959 vs the the 2061 that is not.
> Another great and unique feature of the SV20 is allowing to keep the amp volumes in the upper range, while allowing you to run guitar volume much lower that you are used to, WITHOUT the tone becoming muddy, muffled or muted. This opens up a wide range of tonal and character pallettes that you/ve likely not experienced before! And yes, the SV20 may seem a bit "bright" at first listen, but you learn to use and tame that brightness at the guitar, instead of at the amp.

Bottom line is that I think the SV20 is a far superior amp in nearly every way!

JMHO,
Gene

 

[FleshOnGear]

Welcome @gswearengin! Glad to have you here.

I agree with Gene. Good luck on your tone hunt!

 

[Gene Ballzz]

@gswearengin ,
And oh yeah, you mentioned that you "do have a couple of attenuation options" so it's quite possible that if the SV20 is your "FIRST" Marshall, it may also be the last and only Marshall you'll ever need! It also may be helpful to know what those attenuation options might be.
Cheers,
Gene

 

[DaDoc]

To the forum!

I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about the SV20's, but I've been jonesing for a hand-wired 2061 for a long time now! If I could find one at a good price, I would jump on it in a heartbeat..And besides, it seems the prices of SV20's are approaching those of the 2061.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

To the forum!

I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about the SV20's, but I've been jonesing for a hand-wired 2061 for a long time now! If I could find one at a good price, I would jump on it in a heartbeat..And besides, it seems the prices of SV20's are approaching those of the 2061.

Buying used (if in good, functional condition) is often a good way to try stuff. If it doesn't float yer boat, it can usually be moved onwards, for little or no cost to you! With that said, the 2061 is simply in a completely different universe than the SV20!

I Happily Own An SV20!
Gene

 

[1234_thumbwar]

I’ve got a SV20c and what’s basically a superlead from ‘78 with a ppimv.

The SV20 sounds pretty dead on to the 100w amp. There’s a little difference in low end and how that volume hits with all that headroom but at its essence the SV20 is a proper plexi just the same as its bigger brothers. It’s just easier to carry and change tubes because it’s cathode bias so no probe and hand behind your back

I haven’t played a 2061 personally. Closest to that was a 1974x but that’s a different amp entirely. I don’t want to tell you to pass up on the 2061 as I’ve never played one but in the same breath I can say the SV20 is a good introduction to what Marshall has been about for 60 years and counting

 

[Gene Ballzz]

Oh, and I was mistaken about the channels being out of phase, so jumpering does work!
Just Correctin'
Gene

 

[gswearengin]

Thanks guys (keep ‘em comin’)!

Honestly, if the 2061x wasn’t hand wired I probably wouldn’t be having this dilemma. But I’m always curious, and I think I lean more toward the JTM45 than the super lead (so, @Gene Ballzz maybe not my first and only Marshall?).

Everyone is very encouraging about the SV20, so I’ll just stay the original course.

Would you guys agree that I’m right to pursue a 2061cx over the SV112 or 212? Advantages of the SV’s are that the V-types are pretty well liked and that I could order both and keep the one I like better. But the extra depth and width of the 2061cx makes me think it will produce a much fuller sound.

As far as attenuation, I have a Torpedo Captor so I can use IR’s or the -20dB output, a very simple Swart Night Light Jr. which just converts extra energy to light, and I told myself that if I ordered an SV20H I would go ahead and order a cheap Thomann attenuator with it since I read on here that they make a good pair. I am in Europe, so Marshall prices are semi-reasonable at least.

Thanks,

Gary

 

[Michael Roe]

Hey y'all,

I know this has been discussed a lot, and I feel like I've read most of it (and watched most of the videos) by now. But, I like to think my situation may be a little different than most...

I've always been more of a Fender/Vox guy, but I'm ready to get my first Marshall. I am much more interested in classic Marshall "dirty cleans" than higher gain stuff (although I do enjoy that from time to time). My Marshall icon is Jimi Hendrix, although a lot of my heroes have used them. I come more from the Johnny Marr/Peter Buck school in general, and tend to prefer Fender-style guitars over Gibsons (although I do have and use both).I am a basement warrior...no band, no gigs, so I know either of these is overkill. I can play loud sometimes and do have a couple of attenuation options. So in my case, the quieter the better...

I had pretty much made up my mind to go with an SV20H with a 2061cx (potentially with a Heritage G12M and G12H-55, both of which I already have), but a 2061x has turned up not too far away from me at a very good price and I am sorely tempted. I love that it is hand wired (I am bummed that even the pots and the tube sockets are PCB-mounted on the SV20), but I'm worried about the limited controls, I would prefer EL34's over EL84's, and I'm concerned about volume with either model.

Is the 2061x more like a JTM than a 1959? Does it do the dirty cleans thing as well as or better than the SV20H? Can it Jimi (I can't really, but that's another story...)? Which one is louder, and do either of them have an inside voice at all?

My other amps are a Fender Princeton Reverb reissue (hopefully soon to be replaced by hand wired Deluxe Reverb kit that I need to get around to building), a hand wired Vox AC15 with a blue, a tweed deluxe that I built, and a Laney Lionheart L5T-112, which will likely be sold once I've got a real Marshall that I'm happy with. Obviously I am looking to improve on the Laney as far as authenticity and expand my tonal horizons...

I would certainly appreciate any thoughts on whether I should check out this deal or sit on my hands and hold out for the SV20.

Thanks!

Gary

I will probably get tomatoes thrown at me but here goes:
I have been a tube amp guy, mainly Marshall for decades. Absolutely I am a Marshall amp guy through and through. I haven't been able to play in any live bands for a while and probably won't in the foreseeable future.
A few years ago, I got on the low wattage amp kick. I owned every one of Marshall's 20 watt heads at one time, including the SV20H with a 2061cx cab.
With the SV20H at bedroom levels an attenuator is needed. It is LOUD! I am pretty sure I was one of the first on this site to show off their new SV20H amp and show it sitting on top a 2061CX cab.
The attenuator thing definitely lowers the volume but it also sucks the tone. Some attenuators are better than others. And like anything, the more you pay generally the better.
Let's go back in time about a year and a half ago. On a whim I ordered a Fractal Audio Systems Axe FX III.
I plugged the Axe into my studio monitors for some bedroom level playing. I was floored! It sounded better than any of my low watt amps with attenuators.
It also feels like I am playing the real deal.
Fast forward to about a month or so ago. I have since, sold off all my 20 watt amps. I have my SV20 left. I then decide to sel it. The day afterwards Fractal has a new Firmware release and what nugget does it come with? An SV20H model!
Do I miss my SV20H? Not at all! The Axe Fx sounds better since I don't need an attenuator with it.
Do the math.....buy SV20H + 2061CX cab......you could get a Fractal Axe FX III for around the same cash. Oh, plus all the other 100s of amps included not to mention the awesome effects/ODs/Boost pedals, etc and it is an audio interface.

Don't get me wrong: a real Marshall amp in a live situation is heavenly but for quiet time......FRACTAL!

 

[Gene Ballzz]

I certainly think the 2061CX is a nicer looking cabinet than the vertical SV212. If I were ever to want a 2X12, it would be a 2061CX or a straight version, if someone made it. For now, I've got a '72 4x12, 1960B and a 4x10 1965B and they've got me well covered. I do have some questions about the 2061CX though.
> What is the weight?
> Are the speakers actually at angles to each other, or is the slant just a facade, like on many of the 1965A boxes?
And as mentioned by @Michael Roe , some attenuators do certainly suck tone, but not the @JohnH design, but that's another subject for another time!
Keep Us Posted?
Gene

 

[playloud]

Hey y'all,

I know this has been discussed a lot, and I feel like I've read most of it (and watched most of the videos) by now. But, I like to think my situation may be a little different than most...

I've always been more of a Fender/Vox guy, but I'm ready to get my first Marshall. I am much more interested in classic Marshall "dirty cleans" than higher gain stuff (although I do enjoy that from time to time). My Marshall icon is Jimi Hendrix, although a lot of my heroes have used them. I come more from the Johnny Marr/Peter Buck school in general, and tend to prefer Fender-style guitars over Gibsons (although I do have and use both).I am a basement warrior...no band, no gigs, so I know either of these is overkill. I can play loud sometimes and do have a couple of attenuation options. So in my case, the quieter the better...

I had pretty much made up my mind to go with an SV20H with a 2061cx (potentially with a Heritage G12M and G12H-55, both of which I already have), but a 2061x has turned up not too far away from me at a very good price and I am sorely tempted. I love that it is hand wired (I am bummed that even the pots and the tube sockets are PCB-mounted on the SV20), but I'm worried about the limited controls, I would prefer EL34's over EL84's, and I'm concerned about volume with either model.

Is the 2061x more like a JTM than a 1959? Does it do the dirty cleans thing as well as or better than the SV20H? Can it Jimi (I can't really, but that's another story...)? Which one is louder, and do either of them have an inside voice at all?

My other amps are a Fender Princeton Reverb reissue (hopefully soon to be replaced by hand wired Deluxe Reverb kit that I need to get around to building), a hand wired Vox AC15 with a blue, a tweed deluxe that I built, and a Laney Lionheart L5T-112, which will likely be sold once I've got a real Marshall that I'm happy with. Obviously I am looking to improve on the Laney as far as authenticity and expand my tonal horizons...

I would certainly appreciate any thoughts on whether I should check out this deal or sit on my hands and hold out for the SV20.

Thanks!

Gary

Welcome to the forum!

Good taste re Johnny Marr and Peter Buck. I like them too.

If you already have other amps that get you close to that sound, then the SV20 may be a good choice. I'm a big believer in the idea that if you have multiple amps, they should all do distinctly different "things" - rather than all be approximations of a single tonal reference (why not one amp in that case?)

However, if you're not often playing in a hard rock (or heavier) style, be warned that you'll probably find the SV20 too bright/aggressive in most cases. If this is an issue, there are steps you could take to ameliorate it. G12Hs would be one, and you could make circuit changes to bring the amp closer to "bass spec" (remove bright cap, convert to shared cathode, larger coupling caps etc.)

Speaking of which, given your tonal references (including Jimi), it might be worth considering some of the earlier 50/100W Marshall circuits (JTM50, JTM45/100, Super Bass etc.) - especially as you already have the Captor X. When it comes to dirty cleans, I believe these amps really are the final word, and I've tried many alternatives (BF/SF Fenders, AC 15/30s, even JC-120s). Don't be fooled by the Marshall badge/stereotypes.

Are you in the US? If so, you can probably get a quality handwired clone (e.g. Ceriatone) of one of these for not much more than the SV20, or build your own without any compromises. If you're in the UK, Modulus has a really attractive JTM50 kit.

 

[gswearengin]

Very interesting suggestions @playloud! I wasn’t familiar with Modulus, but I checked out their kits and they look good. Problem is: I need another project like I need a hole in my head, and after adding a head cabinet, the price is higher than the SV20H…and this is before shipping and customs fees (thanks Brexit!). I am from the US, but I live in Germany. We also have TAD here, but their kit prices are also quite “premium.”

I loved the sound of the JTM45 in the recent That Pedal Show episode, couldn’t have been more timely for me. But the price is enough to scare me off right now. (Would an SV20 be louder than a JTM45, by the way?)

So far it still seems like the Thing To Do is probably to start with the SV20, see how we get along, and then potentially reconsider what my next move/model would be.

@Michael Roe - you ain’t wrong, but I don’t agree. I actually went through this recently. I just wouldn’t enjoy using something like the Axe-FX, or anything else that is menu-driven and offers infinite options and tweakability. I ended up with a Walrus Audio ACS-1 that I’m pretty happy with for quiet/silent practice. And I have the reactive load box. I just like to keep it as uncomplicated and “tangible” for everything.

Thanks!

Gary

P.S. I forgot to mention that I also have a 1976 JC-120 in my list of amps. Talk about overkill for the basement!!!

 

[ken361]

My PRS HDRX20 Hendrix is kinda putting my Marshalls to shame at 800 for the head, great amp!

 

[wakjob]

As a devout Fender nut myself... Marshall Vintage Modern.

It's the only Marshall amp I've ever played that has that fat Fender-like "GONG" on the low end. Might save you a little money as the VM's aren't in vogue ATM.

 

[ken361]

G

As a devout Fender nut myself... Marshall Vintage Modern.

It's the only Marshall amp I've ever played that has that fat Fender-like "GONG" on the low end. Might save you a little money as the VM's aren't in vogue ATM.

Great cleans and crunch on the LDM mode

 

[playloud]

Very interesting suggestions @playloud! I wasn’t familiar with Modulus, but I checked out their kits and they look good. Problem is: I need another project like I need a hole in my head, and after adding a head cabinet, the price is higher than the SV20H…and this is before shipping and customs fees (thanks Brexit!). I am from the US, but I live in Germany. We also have TAD here, but their kit prices are also quite “premium.”

I loved the sound of the JTM45 in the recent That Pedal Show episode, couldn’t have been more timely for me. But the price is enough to scare me off right now. (Would an SV20 be louder than a JTM45, by the way?)

So far it still seems like the Thing To Do is probably to start with the SV20, see how we get along, and then potentially reconsider what my next move/model would be.

Cool! Since you're in Germany, I would go with the SV20 then and see how you get on. (Prices are much better in UK/Europe).

There's a schematic here for reference: https://marshallforum.com/media/albums/sv20.1473/

Tube Town has some great-looking kits (at competitive prices), but I don't have personal experience.

 

[eastwood6]

You’ll need an OD or attenuator to get a 2061x to break up at a reasonable volume. However, the build quality of that little head is stunning. I would pull the chassis on the one I had just to stare at it. Beautiful in every way. The 2061cx cab is equally gorgeous.

Punted to a 1974x instead as I wanted to keep a hand wired build but don’t have room for a head and cab at my home.

Good luck with your search!

 

[gswearengin]

Howdy y’all,

OP here. I just got to play an SV20C in beautiful navy levant (at a music store owned by Matthias Jabs of the scorpions…some of you might appreciate that).

First thought: OMG LOUD!!! If I had half a brain that would be a dealbreaker, but…well, I’m still here.

I plugged into the normal channel high input, jumpered into the bright channel low input. I spent most of the time on 5 watts because it was so much more bearable than full power.

Short version: I’m pretty confident it can do what I want it to. It has a lot more clean headroom than I was expecting…I never even got it above edge of breakup. Definitely needs an attenuator for my purposes. I will likely replace the bright cap once I’m sure it’s staying, looks easy enough and the bright channel is super bright (“high treble ain’t no lie…”). I might also try KT-66’s eventually.

The only other thing that gives me pause is the vintage modern. Seems like it could be a great fit for what I’m after. But, if I’m worried about a 20 watt 2x12 being too loud, a 50 (okay, 36) watt 4x12 doesn’t seem like an obvious solution, even if it does have a master volume. Does anyone have experience with both? Can the VM in LDR mode really be quieter than the SV20? I would have to find a used one locally to even try it out. And, I’m just not into the styling of the vintage modern at all, whereas the studio vintage looks perfect.

So, anyone have any final recommendations or anything to add on the SV20H vs. 2266 before I take the plunge?

Thanks,

Gary

 

[El Gringo]

I will probably get tomatoes thrown at me but here goes:
I have been a tube amp guy, mainly Marshall for decades. Absolutely I am a Marshall amp guy through and through. I haven't been able to play in any live bands for a while and probably won't in the foreseeable future.
A few years ago, I got on the low wattage amp kick. I owned every one of Marshall's 20 watt heads at one time, including the SV20H with a 2061cx cab.
With the SV20H at bedroom levels an attenuator is needed. It is LOUD! I am pretty sure I was one of the first on this site to show off their new SV20H amp and show it sitting on top a 2061CX cab.
The attenuator thing definitely lowers the volume but it also sucks the tone. Some attenuators are better than others. And like anything, the more you pay generally the better.
Let's go back in time about a year and a half ago. On a whim I ordered a Fractal Audio Systems Axe FX III.
I plugged the Axe into my studio monitors for some bedroom level playing. I was floored! It sounded better than any of my low watt amps with attenuators.
It also feels like I am playing the real deal.
Fast forward to about a month or so ago. I have since, sold off all my 20 watt amps. I have my SV20 left. I then decide to sel it. The day afterwards Fractal has a new Firmware release and what nugget does it come with? An SV20H model!
Do I miss my SV20H? Not at all! The Axe Fx sounds better since I don't need an attenuator with it.
Do the math.....buy SV20H + 2061CX cab......you could get a Fractal Axe FX III for around the same cash. Oh, plus all the other 100s of amps included not to mention the awesome effects/ODs/Boost pedals, etc and it is an audio interface.

Don't get me wrong: a real Marshall amp in a live situation is heavenly but for quiet time......FRACTAL!

You make some great selling points about the Fractal . I just love my 2 -2555X half stacks too much . From all of the responses to this thread I would have to agree about the SV20H.