Gibson Guitars - Bad Quarter And Price Increases Coming

[MarshallDog]

I love Gibson LPSs and have six of them but just another ducebag move by master DB himself Hank!!!

 

[John BNY]

I've seen both good and bad in terms of QC, but I thought the 2017 models that I've tried were very good in terms of craftsmanship. I don't really worry about the setup as I do that on my own. 2015 models were a disaster for the company, not necessarily for QC, but for the simple reason that consumers for the most part didn't like the changes.

I don't necessarily attribute the company's poor performance solely on poor QC over the years. I think the entire guitar industry is going through some distress, and I continue to blame it on the efficiency created by the internet, including the used market. Even people with disposable income don't feel a need to pay full retail price. There are so many opportunities to buy used through the internet, and with most stores offering free returns within 30 days, people are not afraid to risk buying without trying them out first.

The company has some debt maturing in 2018, and some holders of bonds issued by the company are starting to organize by retaining restructuring lawyers. The company itself has retained restructuring professionals. I'm keeping an eye on this situation.

 

[MarshallDog]

I've seen both good and bad in terms of QC, but I thought the 2017 models that I've tried were very good in terms of craftsmanship. I don't really worry about the setup as I do that on my own. 2015 models were a disaster for the company, not necessarily for QC, but for the simple reason that consumers for the most part didn't like the changes.

I don't necessarily attribute the company's poor performance solely on poor QC over the years. I think the entire guitar industry is going through some distress, and I continue to blame it on the efficiency created by the internet, including the used market. Even people with disposable income don't feel a need to pay full retail price. There are so many opportunities to buy used through the internet, and with most stores offering free returns within 30 days, people are not afraid to risk buying without trying them out first.

The company has some debt maturing in 2018, and some holders of bonds issued by the company are starting to organize by retaining restructuring lawyers. The company itself has retained restructuring professionals. I'm keeping an eye on this situation.

I think a lot of the issues at Gibson are directly caused by that Napolean dip shit Hank! From what I have read and heard he is a complete asshole and its almost impossible to work for him. I am friends with someone that worked for him and what he has told me is sickening, I probably would be in jail now for assault if I worked for him and was subject to his shit. My friend had several meetings with him over a three year period and has some interesting stories.

 

[John BNY]

I think a lot of the issues at Gibson are directly caused by that Napolean dip shit Hank! From what I have read and head he is a complete asshole and its almost impossible to work for him. I am friends with someone that worked for him and what he has told me is sickening, I probably would be in jail now for assault if I worked for him and was subject to his shit. My friend had several meetings with him over a three year period and has some interesting stories.

The way things are going, and if the company can't refinance the bond debt in 2018, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the ownership in the company is transferred to creditors and we get new leadership.

 

[Kutt]

The way things are going, and if the company can't refinance the bond debt in 2018, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the ownership in the company is transferred to creditors and we get new leadership.

One can only hope and pray. In the meantime we have Collings and PRS, both of which eat anything Gibson is pumping out for breakfast.

 

[Biddlin]

PRS

Pretty guitars but I've never played one that felt organic and intuitive to me. They always feel cold and hard on my hands.

 

[Kris Ford]

One can only hope and pray. In the meantime we have FENDER, which eat anything Gibson is pumping out for breakfast.

Fixed it for ya!

 

[John BNY]

Pretty guitars but I've never played one that felt organic and intuitive to me. They always feel cold and hard on my hands.

I agree. I once had a ten top Custom 24. It was a beautiful guitar, but for whatever reason, I couldn't connect with it, and found myself playing my Gibsons. Wound up selling the PRS.

 

[anitoli]

I'm sorry but I bought a Gibson Les Paul studio recently and had to go through 3 of them to find one that didn't have a major flaw. One had stain drips that dried on the neck and another had a chuck taken out of the nut. All were new and from the Nashville factory. I've actually been impressed with Epiphone QC.

In China if a worker fucks up at the guitar assembly line there is the evil back door waiting, when you have 350,000,000 applications in the desk you don't put up with crap.

 

[anitoli]

Fixed it for ya!
View attachment 43155

Yes. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound Gibson's Achilles heel.

 

[maxxi]

i'm really wondering where Gibson gets their ideas. i mean,who decided for all the changes in the 2015 lineup? and why? did the guitar playing community ask for those changes?
i bet if Gibson would actually listen to what guitar players want, sales would be way better than they are now. the current philosophy seems to be to grab as much cash as they can, no matter the quality of the product. but what if they lowered the price, and made a better quality product? the extra quantity of sold instruments would make up for the lower gain margins right?

 

[Shae201]

In China if a worker fucks up at the guitar assembly line there is the evil back door waiting, when you have 350,000,000 applications in the desk you don't put up with crap.

Sad but true.

 

[anitoli]

i'm really wondering where Gibson gets their ideas. i mean,who decided for all the changes in the 2015 lineup? and why? did the guitar playing community ask for those changes?
i bet if Gibson would actually listen to what guitar players want, sales would be way better than they are now. the current philosophy seems to be to grab as much cash as they can, no matter the quality of the product. but what if they lowered the price, and made a better quality product? the extra quantity of sold instruments would make up for the lower gain margins right?

Gibson's mode of operations was decided by guitar players. Beck when Henry J. first acquired Gibson, sales were poor and quality sucked. The first move he made as CEO was not to address the quality problems but DOUBLE the prices on all guitars right across the line. What did he discover? Sales doubled, that's what.
You see in our type of economy quality is generally determined by price. The more it costs, the better it must be. Whether this has any basis in reality is up for grabs but players told him charge more and we will buy more even if it's the same old shit.

And Gibson took this and ran with it.

 

[maxxi]

Gibson's mode of operations was decided by guitar players. Beck when Henry J. first acquired Gibson, sales were poor and quality sucked. The first move he made as CEO was not to address the quality problems but DOUBLE the prices on all guitars right across the line. What did he discover? Sales doubled, that's what.
You see in our type of economy quality is generally determined by price. The more it costs, the better it must be. Whether this has any basis in reality is up for grabs but players told him charge more and we will buy more even if it's the same old shit.

And Gibson took this and ran with it.

but surely those times are changing? people don't take this approach anymore and demand a quality instrument for the hefty price (i know i do). Gibson should realize this, because if they don't, i predict sales will be slow for a little while longer

 

[anitoli]

Yeah, people have caught on to the scam but Henry hasn't figured it out yet. Back in the 80's there wasn't as much competition as there is now. Ibanez was one of the "joke" brands that became a major competitor during that time period. Now there are plenty of killer makers out there and you are not stuck with 2 companies and the imported crap. Even the import stuff now is really good and it's very affordable.

It's Henry's company to do as he pleases but they won't get my money any more. I have found better. Much better.

 

[Kutt]

Gibson's mode of operations was decided by guitar players. Beck when Henry J. first acquired Gibson, sales were poor and quality sucked. The first move he made as CEO was not to address the quality problems but DOUBLE the prices on all guitars right across the line. What did he discover? Sales doubled, that's what.
You see in our type of economy quality is generally determined by price. The more it costs, the better it must be. Whether this has any basis in reality is up for grabs but players told him charge more and we will buy more even if it's the same old shit.

And Gibson took this and ran with it.

There is a lot of truth to that approach. I recall reading an article with someone from Fender who stated something similar- they had a poorly selling amp (I think it was the Pro Reverb) so instead of going nuclear and discontinuing it they thought "let's just up the price by a huge margin and see what happens". Boom. They sold all inventory.

Thing is, while this approach will still work with some people, many people are more savvy today since we have the advantage of communicating over the internet. People didn't have that advantage back around 1987. When I see some guy's new LP or SG with a fretboard that looks like it's splintering, or a crappy neck angle, or a poorly slotted nut and paint defects everywhere, I don't care how high or low the price is. I'm not going to purchase anything from that company.

They are so close to getting it right, but then the QC thing just kills them. They prefer quantity over quality, hence the shareholder mentality.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

 

[RevJamie]

Gibson hasn't made a good guitar since 2011.

 

[MarshallDog]

Gibson hasn't made a good guitar since 2011.

I have to disagree, their 2016s are stellar in every way. I have two and they are awesome!

 

[SG~GUY]

-well I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't understand the PRS craze, they feel plastic to me,

-I've never seen a -GIBSON- with the kind of horrendous quality control I read about, and I've been looking for 20 + years