Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

[DSL100 Dude]

...From an engineering stand point, it means it's less well designed.

Oh LAWD!!!!! Here we go with the engineering crap! Next thing we know we will get long @$$ posts explaining how the designers at Marshall don't know what they are doing. UUGGGHHHHH!!!!

So you're saying you would prefer a PCB panel mount amp over point to point wiring?

Really?! We're doing this one again?!?!?!

 

[Jason77]

Really?! We're doing this one again?!?!?!

Oh c'mon, man! Don't you know electrons flow more easily through PTP than PCB??!!!1! Geez...

 

[Strateuphoria]

Oh c'mon, man! Don't you know electrons flow more easily through PTP than PCB??!!!1! Geez...

I know if you move the wires around in an old amp, the tone changes. There's more going on in a valve circuit, than whats on paper.

 

[jt100]

I'm a new owner of my first Marshall. DSL50. I also own a Mesa Rectoverb. I don't know much about internals but, on the outside the Mesa wins hands down. Metal switches, inputs/outputs, leather handle and the tolex seems to be thicker. I do, however much prefer the Marshall tone. And I also have had the Mesa fixed for a broken cap lead. Both are about 5 years old. The Marshall just seems cheaply built compared to the Mesa. The Mesa gives the impression that it's built like a tank, the Marshall does not. This is external eval only.

 

[alvagoldbook]

All the amps you posted pictures of couldn't be PTP. They all contain an immense amount of solid state devices. They have to have PCB its just the nature of the beast.

So your point is?

I'm not suggesting that a JVM should be point to point. But there's no reason why a JTM45 RI isn't point to point. Or a JCM 800 2203. Or a AFD100.

 

[MartyStrat54]

And that's why you will get arguments all day long. You are saying PTP is the best way to go. This is incorrect. PTP was done when the industry didn't know any better. If PCB were available in 1940, the industry would have used them.

PTP wiring can be a source for hum. Have you ever heard of "dressing" wires in a PTP amp?

Are you saying you are one of the gifted people that can hear a difference between a JTM45 PTP and a PCB Reissue?

You are saying PTP is best, yet you turn around and talk about how you like Mesa amps with PCB's and you claim they have a superior build. I don't get it.

Which is it? PTP is better than PCB, unless it's a Mesa? Is that it?

 

[big dooley]

troll thread... been there, done that...

owned a DSL, never failed me once, apart from tubes
JVM still going strong for 4 years... never heard of pots going bad either
AFD point to point... a joke
if you question marshall quality, stay with mesa's and their bloody company politics about biasing amps... or any other bullshit sceme they came up with...

 

[Slap]

Marshall's like any other major company out there: They're in it to make money.

Sometimes, that means streamlining things...the PCB's and board-mount pots are part of it. You want the utmost in electronics....hand-wiring.....the caps to be within 1% tolerances? I'm certain Marshall will gladly oblige...for a fee. Those boutique builders sure have no issues with raiding your wallet like the Mongols. BTW.....in regards to the durability of the "modern" construction methods Marshall employs, I have a 31-year-old Peavey combo with a PCB and board-mount pots. Still solid as a rock, no issues whatsoever.

Not enough time to micro-analyze things when running a production floor...yes, sloppy construction should never be excused and I'm sure if you voiced this to your retailer, they'd be willing to correct any issues that may arise.

But has overall quality declined? Sales numbers would be the telling thing....and having played several Big M amplifiers recently, I'd say the quality is still there.

 

[DSL100 Dude]

I'm not suggesting that a JVM should be point to point. But there's no reason why a JTM45 RI isn't point to point. Or a JCM 800 2203. Or a AFD100.

FAIL! There were NO JCM 800 Series 2203 (or any other amp in the 800 series for that matter) that were produced PTP. So then the 2203x would be a CORRECT reissue of the JCM 800 2203. Well, minus the effects loop that several fellas on here that have both reissues and originals have mentioned they love.

 

[Salsg]

Even with a "supposed" better build and better parts, I'd take a Marshall over a Mesa becuase Marshalls SOUND better than Mesas. Had a triple rec, solid built, but it was the loudest amp I could never hear, no cut, no tone.

 

[Salsg]

Sounds like op is reading too much on the internet.

 

[Salsg]

Ceriatone, PTP, I had one for a bit, and it was wired wrong by ceriatone, I had to fix it.

Where's the quality there?

Troll.

 

[TwinACStacks]

Even with a "supposed" better build and better parts, I'd take a Marshall over a Mesa becuase Marshalls SOUND better than Mesas. Had a triple rec, solid built, but it was the loudest amp I could never hear, no cut, no tone.

Kind of like a PRS Guitar.

TWIN

 

[TwinACStacks]

I guarantee you caps and other components can Drastically affect tone. I repeat THERE ARE NO ORANGE DROP CAPS IN BRITISH AMPS. The original Mesa was a Modded Fender.

TWIN

 

[cylon185]

Again, what's the point in coming to a Marshall Forum and bash Marshall ?

Go the the Ferrari forum and tell them you pee on the scuderia because they are built like FIATs.

Or go to the All Black site and tell them Rugby is for Sissies.

LMAO

 

[Blueslicks]

I'm with the OP. He has never once said Marshalls "sound bad" now. He has simply stated the build quality has suffered over time as the company has grown. I agree wholeheartedly. It was pointed out that "Marshall's have a good history of dependability as proven by the number of older amps still in use". Well yeah, that goes without saying because they are older era build quality which is what is being used for reference against the new builds being critiqued. I'll be interested to see how a heavily gigged AFD, VM, JVM or YJM holds up after 10 years to compare.

And for a simple vintage style circuit, point to point may not have any discernible audible improvement but it allows for a basic visual towards determining if quality craftsmanship has been undertaken in the build as well as less complicated maintenance and repair.

Lots of rose colored glasses here imo.

If you can't admit to the fact that the construction and materials now used by Marshall are of lower quality than could be obtained and must result to being snarky and indignant then you need to give your head a shake imo.

Sorry to burst your collective bubbles but there are WAY better builds and WAY better components in many, many other amps. Tolex, components, tubes, switches, jacks, transformers have all become "lets build it as cheap as we can" mass production choices for Marshall builds. There is solid durable plastic and brittle thin plastics in this world. Which do you think Marshall incorporates into a product for lets say...an input jack or a speaker jack plate?

Nope, I'm with the OP. Regardless if it sounds the same with the cheap ass parts and shoddy construction. You can't convince me it's going to last as long, hold value or be as dependable as a well crafted top of the line component bearing product. And if I'm paying thousands then well crafted and top of the line components should be inclusive.

I've played Marshalls almost exclusively for 30 years. I've had JTM45's and Bluesbreakers, SLP's, JCM 800's, JCM 900's...no real problems and the ones I've had have been dependable and served me well. Middle of the road build quality with a wonderful circuit and tone nothing more and nothing less.

But if I sit an AFD or a YJM beside a Matchless or take out a Germino chasis and compare it with a VM's guts I know what I'm thinking.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Thank you for joining the forum. I was wondering if Alva had any friends that would come to his aid.

What Marshall are you playing now?

 

[alvagoldbook]

I guarantee you caps and other components can Drastically affect tone. I repeat THERE ARE NO ORANGE DROP CAPS IN BRITISH AMPS. The original Mesa was a Modded Fender.

TWIN

You have no idea what caps do electronically, do you?

Oh c'mon, man! Don't you know electrons flow more easily through PTP than PCB??!!!1! Geez...

Yes, they do, actually. You can replicate this yourself. Plug into your marshall amp directly from the guitar. Notice the quality of the tone. Then plug into 10 stomp boxes with true bypass switches. If your ears are worth a shit, you'll notice a major difference. You tone will be darker. Less treble will be present. It will sound lifeless. Like someone threw a heavy blanket over your cabinet.

The same principle applies inside an amp. PTP wiring allows components to be wired together directly, without going through the internals of a PCB. This affects tone.

PTP wiring can be a source for hum. Have you ever heard of "dressing" wires in a PTP amp?

Are you saying you are one of the gifted people that can hear a difference between a JTM45 PTP and a PCB Reissue?

You are saying PTP is best, yet you turn around and talk about how you like Mesa amps with PCB's and you claim they have a superior build. I don't get it.

1) a lot of things can be a source for hum. So long as the builder doesn't screw up the ground plane, you should be fine with a PTP.

2) Yes.

3) Complex amp circuits would be nearly impossible to build PTP. No one who has any idea what they're talking about would suggest that a JVM or a Road King should be PTP. However, there is no reason why a 2203, a JTM, or a 1959 shouldn't be PTP.

If it makes no difference, then why does Marshall offer PTP wiring on the 1959?

PCB 1959: Marshall Plexi 1959SLP 100W Tube Guitar Amp Head: Shop Guitars & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

PTP 1959: Marshall 1959HW Handwired Plexi Head: Shop Guitars & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

 

[Blueslicks]

"I was wondering if Alva had any friends that would come to his aid.

What Marshall are you playing now?"

Me?

See, now theres what I mean by snarky. And here you were so nice when I asked about tubes a while back.

Friends with the OP?

No dude, I've never even exchanged a word with him. I just happen to share his opinion regarding quality. I would have pegged you as MUCH less ignorant than what you are coming across as right now. Admittedly I'm quite surprised you would pipe in this way since I've read a great many of your posts on tubes and thought you were a hell of a lot more intelligent and open minded than this.

Now I see that this place is actually filled with ignorance and denial. If someone challenges anything Marshall it's a grab the torches and "kill the drifter" mentality.

Lol, funny stuff.

And as for the clownshoe yelling "Go the the Ferrari forum and tell them you pee on the scuderia because they are built like FIATs"...

Get a grip dipshit. You think a Marshall has a Ferrari build quality you are on glue for starters. MAYBE a Matchless yes but a Marshall is more like a fucking KIA now and was at most a nice dependable GMC during it's heyday.

You call it bashing, I call it telling it like it is with the hopes someone at Marshall will eventually listen.

But no, go ahead and stick with your praising of sub par product you are being charged high end prices for.

Oh yeah Marty, I play a 1987x of which I have two (one is simply for a gig spare) and I also have a 2061x which I use for home, jamming and recording.

And guess what?

1) I play my 1987x near dimed through 2 X G12H30 and they haven't blown.

2) The entire front row of the generally small capacity clubs I play does not vaporize from the assault of my nearly cranked amp.

3) Soundmen do not walk out or scream obscenities and refuse to mix me.

4) I (gasp) am mic'd and going through a PA at every little club gig despite the earth shattering capabilities of my apparently stadium melting 1987x power.

I really wonder if many of you on this board have even left the bedroom with your gear.

 

[cylon185]

Go away fuckwits.