SV20H For Van Halen ?

[Dogs of Doom]

That's a MUCH fancier variac than I've ever had haha! The ones I've worked with were as analog as you can imagine--I honestly never went below 90v--that was supposed to be the "sweet spot" according to the interwebs at the time and I was afraid of frying something if I went to extremes.

I like the tone in the vid but it's tough to tell how loud it actually is in the room. Or what the amp sounds like without the V

lol, that's a cheap $50 Chinese variac...

It's a phone recording, right in front of the amp, in a small room. Definitely hard to know how much volume was cut, but, the sag/saturation does seem to be plentiful. He says vol 5 & gain 7'ish. Looks like he has some sort of boost pedal up front?

Anyway, there seems to be a lot of angles to getting some sort of Edward's brown sound. Rockstah, did just a couple of refinements in his M5 mod's & he got some convincing tones. Many people thought he was the closest...



although, if you read up on other forums, there's quite a few people that said, that they had one of his M5 mod's & that it wasn't anything special, that it was all in Mark's playing & recording...

 

[V-man]

I agree probably need a phase 90 but money is seriously tight so probably get a Mooer or something?

Don't really feel I need to mod it, like you guys point out I am running at such low volumes that I am super happy with the ballpark?

Not intended to disparage, but tone chasing as opposed to “tone ballparking” is an exercise in spending $X hundred (or thousand) for a mod, vintage speakers, etc. to add a few extra percentage points of authenticity, where those points (and $X spent) all add up over time to make a compelling reproduction of the artist’s tone and a money pit of a hobby.

While some are more merciful than others in terms of $ needed, Van Halen’s is not one I would consider a very affordable one to chase (again, tone ballparking MAY be a different matter depending on budget, etc). I say all this under the point that you find a ubiquitous pedal that could be found in every GC with more options than Eddie’s for @ $100 and something obtainable used @ $60 as too expensive to get right now. That being the case, I would shelve the chase project entirely or at least patiently prepare for a years-long marathon of a journey.

You know, the irony of EVH was that he himself could not afford these newly-arriving FX pedals starting out, so he developed his insane techniques as a improvisational adaptation to create effects he otherwise could not afford to buy. I think if you took the solid gear you have now and began the journey to play more like him than sound similar, you would be far more grateful and satisfied. Just a suggestion.

That aside, an attenuator (DI/IR box) of some kind really is a crucial ingredient for these NMV amps.

 

[kingfredward]

Not intended to disparage, but tone chasing as opposed to “tone ballparking” is an exercise in spending $X hundred (or thousand) for a mod, vintage speakers, etc. to add a few extra percentage points of authenticity, where those points (and $X spent) all add up over time to make a compelling reproduction of the artist’s tone and a money pit of a hobby.

While some are more merciful than others in terms of $ needed, Van Halen’s is not one I would consider a very affordable one to chase (again, tone ballparking MAY be a different matter depending on budget, etc). I say all this under the point that you find a ubiquitous pedal that could be found in every GC with more options than Eddie’s for @ $100 and something obtainable used @ $60 as too expensive to get right now. That being the case, I would shelve the chase project entirely or at least patiently prepare for a years-long marathon of a journey.

You know, the irony of EVH was that he himself could not afford these newly-arriving FX pedals starting out, so he developed his insane techniques as a improvisational adaptation to create effects he otherwise could not afford to buy. I think if you took the solid gear you have now and began the journey to play more like him than sound similar, you would be far more grateful and satisfied. Just a suggestion.

That aside, an attenuator (DI/IR box) of some kind really is a crucial ingredient for these NMV amps.

Think that's very well said often I find myself gassing for gear for than I practice. And I think to myself imagine I spent all this time spent working on techniques instead I guess it's all part of the fun haha.

I have a Fryette Power Station which I love as I live in a tiny apartment so that really helps this help. Nonetheless, just feel the amp response so much better when it's not dimed but that's just me...

 

[pittbull]

I have the last amp that Mark Abrahamian-Rockstah (RIP)modded before he passed away.it’s a Rockitt Retro(# 46)1968 50 watt plexi spec 12000 series all hand wired turret board all top notch components that I sent to Mark Abrahamian to mod.I had the Rockstah Amplification logo made that’s the logo Mark Abrahamian designed but passed away before he had a chance to make them.I remember Mark A.called me on a friday this was September of 2012 telling me “ hey man I’m sending the amp to you when get it please call me to tell me how you like the mod 5”, I recieve the amp on that Monday which was a three day wait,I find out the Mark passed away that Sunday night after a show in Nebraska, Mark was Mickey Thompson guitar player in Starship. It was sad that I couldn’t call him back to tell him that the amp just smokes-amazing Van halen 1 all day.. Mark and I would talk all the time about the Van Halen sound and amps in general.

 

[pat_rocks]

The sv20h could be a good amp to mod if marshall labelled every component on the board like it did with some pcb boards... The only van halen mod which is easy to do on it is the josé master.

 

[V-man]

Think that's very well said often I find myself gassing for gear for than I practice. And I think to myself imagine I spent all this time spent working on techniques instead I guess it's all part of the fun haha.

I have a Fryette Power Station which I love as I live in a tiny apartment so that really helps this help. Nonetheless, just feel the amp response so much better when it's not dimed but that's just me...

Power station and a SV? Now I know while you’re broke!!!

Amazing combo though. I just can’t see the $$ spent on the PS100 with some other GAS priorities ahead As much as I would love one, esp with the ability to run my unmolested Marshalls with an FX loop.

Regardless, that comment is something I learned the hard way. I have nice gear (some items being “very nice”). But outside of 2-3 guitars, one good amp, maybe 4 pedals (aside from a tuner) nothing more is needed to develop great skills and music. The comedy of course for many is “I’d be happy paring down to all that, but that required trying 100 pedals to find the 4, 20 guitars for the 3 and 10 amps for the one.” Of course, the fallacy is that the chase obsession never ends.

In the end, I could spend the time and effort to improve my playing technique, or researching drives and modulations, and figuring out the learning curves associated with the instruction manuals. If I become a good enough player, maybe I can make a few bucks locally playing or doing some youtube lesson vids to buy some gear. Unfortunately, I can take $20-$50K in gear but I can’t drop any of it into a blender and make a talent smoothie.

 

[solarburn]

Mike (flyingguitars) son, got a variac, & he turned it way down. He said that, the more you turn the variac down, you also turn the amp down, as sag is balanced by current flow. When the current flow fails to supply the transformer, what it wants, you get sag. If you get to a point, where you're getting sag, you can turn the amp down, & by current law, you'll get less sag, because the transformer will be less demanding. Turn the variac down more, then you get back to the sag point again.

Of course, once you get down to 90v, you hit a delicate balance, where, there comes a point, that you can't get any lower, or the heaters will not work anymore, so, there's only so far & you have limitations, but, he went surprisingly low on his, & got a brown sound at pretty low volume...

edit: here's the vid



That said, I do not know how that would work w/ the studio series 20 watters, as the design already does limit the power to the power tubes. You might be able to knock a couple volts off, but, I'd bet that, you'd end up w/ issues sooner than if using a standard, say 50 watt amp, w/ 2 power tubes...

I've read another concern is having to rebias the amp after lowering voltage especially to where VH was running voltage. Easy to do with a fixed bias amp but cathode bias means changing a bias resistor if necessary.

I got a variac for the SC800 and lowered voltage to about 113/115v. It does get a bit spongier. I play the 800 without lowering voltage most of the time.

One thing to watch out for on the cheaper variacs is voltage accuracy. I checked my wall voltage with multi meter it read 120v. The variac read 130v. I kept my MM plugged into the variac to make sure I only had to compensate for 10v. My variac has 2 plug ins which read the same. Definitely want accuracy when lowering voltages. Other way too.lol

 

[tallcoolone]

In the end, I could spend the time and effort to improve my playing technique,

This right here will help your tone more than any other amp mod. There are hundreds of clips of guys making generic gear sound infinitely better than any average player through a perfect setup. That's why you can't trust clips--you can have the exact same rig but you aren't going to sound like Pete Thorn.

 

[tallcoolone]

Not preaching btw, I'm the guy who drove 4hrs to dump money into my 8th amp last week. I'm ridiculous

 

[Gene Ballzz]

Power station and a SV? Now I know while you’re broke!!!

Amazing combo though. I just can’t see the $$ spent on the PS100 with some other GAS priorities ahead As much as I would love one, esp with the ability to run my unmolested Marshalls with an FX loop.

Regardless, that comment is something I learned the hard way. I have nice gear (some items being “very nice”). But outside of 2-3 guitars, one good amp, maybe 4 pedals (aside from a tuner) nothing more is needed to develop great skills and music. The comedy of course for many is “I’d be happy paring down to all that, but that required trying 100 pedals to find the 4, 20 guitars for the 3 and 10 amps for the one.” Of course, the fallacy is that the chase obsession never ends.

In the end, I could spend the time and effort to improve my playing technique, or researching drives and modulations, and figuring out the learning curves associated with the instruction manuals. If I become a good enough player, maybe I can make a few bucks locally playing or doing some youtube lesson vids to buy some gear. Unfortunately, I can take $20-$50K in gear but I can’t drop any of it into a blender and make a talent smoothie.

This right here will help your tone more than any other amp mod. There are hundreds of clips of guys making generic gear sound infinitely better than any average player through a perfect setup. That's why you can't trust clips--you can have the exact same rig but you aren't going to sound like Pete Thorn.

^^^^^^^ A Bunch Of Wise Words, Right There! ^^^^^^^

For any given tone/sound, there are usually many ways to acieve it, even with different gear! The key is using your ears to understand and identify what you're actually shooting for, experimenting with various bits of gear to get close and then finising it off with the the playing techniques that put the icing on the cake!

Still Practicin'
Gene

 

[paul-e-mann]

One of the best EVH tones I ever heard was from Mike RT a past member here that is long gone. I had a phone conversation with him years ago and his recipe to get EVH tone was mod an amp into a super lead, add a ppimv, and cascade the channels. Plug in a guitar with hot pickups into any of his modded amps and you had instant EVH. I was exploring having him mod an amp for me but I just didn't have the funds at that time and wound up going a different direction. I wonder what Mike can do with an SV20? He's still very much in business modding amps and can be found on youtube, here's a current clip from him:

 

[paul-e-mann]

Since getting my SV I have been on a quest to get the VHI sound out of it and was always disappointed... I would always dime everything like Eddie used to do and would be woefully disappointed.View attachment 122774until I discovered a Dimarzio Super Distortion , I know old news... But still new to me. Put one in my Les Paul, and it completely brought the SV to life. View attachment 122770I finally heard the sounds from Van Halen 1... Almost like the missing piece to the jigsaw. I was so inspired I built my own partscaster View attachment 122771
View attachment 122772


and a bought BOSS GE-7. View attachment 122773Like the ultimate old school Van Halen rig now. Finally feel like I have unlocked the beast. anyone else have solutions to play Van Halen on their Marshalls?

I just put a Super Distortion in my Strat bridge and know exactly what you mean!

 

[pat_rocks]

well basically here is the mod 5 that was almost done by everyone on the metro forums :

 

[pittbull]

Fair Warning If the mod wasn’t done by Mark A. it’s not going to sound the same Mark treated each amp differently if you go back to the metro amp guys that were doing the mod 5 themselves they would say the mod doesn’t sound right

 

[pat_rocks]

Fair Warning If the mod wasn’t done by Mark A. it’s not going to sound the same Mark treated each amp differently if you go back to the metro amp guys that were doing the mod 5 themselves they would say the mod doesn’t sound right

yeah i know because people respected Mark they didn't release pictures of the mods. On the Sloclone forums i believe there are schematics of mark's mods but as you said each amp was tunned differently.

 

[scozz]

…………..VH, IMO wasn't really a "high gain" sound, as many purport it to be. Like the later VH stuff, as indicated by the various VH endorsed amp's, which sound nothing like his old sound, they promote high gain as an end all, but, VH, used not so hot pickups into a rather ordinary plexi………

This ^

 

[pittbull]

For Van Halen 1 I and many others hear ceramic hot magnet or Ibanez super 70 alnico 8 period,back to the mod 5 the majority of the amps that Mark A modded the owners of those amp are keeping them due to the Van Halen sound period it’s rare you see a modded mod 5 amp for sale years back you would see a few popping up for sale not anymore those that sold there amps back then are kicking themselves in the ass today for selling them I know some that sold them to buy a Bray amp and like I said they are kicking themselves in the ass

 

[Dogs of Doom]

One of the best EVH tones I ever heard was from Mike RT a past member here that is long gone. I had a phone conversation with him years ago and his recipe to get EVH tone was mod an amp into a super lead, add a ppimv, and cascade the channels. Plug in a guitar with hot pickups into any of his modded amps and you had instant EVH. I was exploring having him mod an amp for me but I just didn't have the funds at that time and wound up going a different direction. I wonder what Mike can do with an SV20? He's still very much in business modding amps and can be found on youtube, here's a current clip from him:

he's still a member on here...

 

[Dogs of Doom]

yeah i know because people respected Mark they didn't release pictures of the mods. On the Sloclone forums i believe there are schematics of mark's mods but as you said each amp was tunned differently.

from rig-talk: (who claimed it was from metro)

 

[pittbull]

Here’s a example listening to a original Jose Arrendondo modded Marshall and then listen to a Jose mod someone else did that’s why when you see a original Jose Arrendondo amp come up for sale which is rare is so expensive