SV20H VS “REAL” Plexi

[FrostyTheSnake]

I’ve found the amp for me in the SV20H.

However, the GAS in me wants a “rEaL” Plexi.

Can you fine people point me in the right direction. 1987x or 59HW or older superlead reissue?

What am I missing with the SV20H that I gain from the big lads. I use Captor X to play at home and have no band to speak of. Although I would LOVE an old man cover band down the road, besides the point.

I would LOVE sonic results recorded if anyone has any? The forums say the bigger iron and bigger heads sound fuller, more low end, beefier, creamer, rounder, fuller, louder. I would love to hear this!

This thread if just for comparison sake, I LOVE the studio line and they really have me by the short and curlies wanting me to “upgrade” to the real Plexi.

My playing style :

 

[V-man]

The problem with BOTH is that attenuation is all but required in virtually all situations with the exception of certain venues. The big miss for me about the SV-20 is that it makes practically no sense over the plexi.

It is so niche because the only two times that it would be favorable would be in a Tokyo/NYC shoebox apartment (where you have already have factored in the cost of attenuation) or some medium/small venue where you KNOW you can rely on a 212 and/or the FOH setup. That is way too niche and limited IMO to buy an overly loud amp that still lacks the power and balls of the 100W (and the price difference also hasn’t been terribly advantageous for the smaller amp).

During the pandemic I did run my 1959 through the captor X. The rating of the Captor is much better suited for the 1987X but it can run the 1959 if you are careful with the volume (as you know, it goes red LED when things are getting overloaded). I have since got a PS-100 which plays nice with the Captor when I want to run headphones (much easier on both the 1959 and Captor) and the PS sounds far better attenuating than the Captor.

So why the SV20? Because you got a killer deal on one used. Otherwise they practically make no sense to me over the original NMVs and most are far better off getting a 1987X/1959X

 

[V-man]

Which NMV for you?

Do you want to spend $$$ on so-called vintage, $$$$$ on “real vintage” or get an X?

The 1959X will be voiced slightly different from the HW. The latter being more mellow/plexi-ish and the former being more aggressive and stiff.

1987x I forget which one it’s based on, but my guess is you would have more overlap with the SV-20 and 1987x than you would the 1959s.

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

The problem with BOTH is that attenuation is all but required in virtually all situations with the exception of certain venues. The big miss for me about the SV-20 is that it makes practically no sense over the plexi.

It is so niche because the only two times that it would be favorable would be in a Tokyo/NYC shoebox apartment (where you have already have factored in the cost of attenuation) or some medium/small venue where you KNOW you can rely on a 212 and/or the FOH setup. That is way too niche and limited IMO to buy an overly loud amp that still lacks the power and balls of the 100W (and the price difference also hasn’t been terribly advantageous for the smaller amp).

During the pandemic I did run my 1959 through the captor X. The rating of the Captor is much better suited for the 1987X but it can run the 1959 if you are careful with the volume (as you know, it goes red LED when things are getting overloaded). I have since got a PS-100 which plays nice with the Captor when I want to run headphones (much easier on both the 1959 and Captor) and the PS sounds far better attenuating than the Captor.

So why the SV20? Because you got a killer deal on one used. Otherwise they practically make no sense to me over the original NMVs and most are far better off getting a 1987X/1959X

All great points. Missing the cost point. The big lads are twice the price.

How does the 59HW compare to SV20H sound wise? I would love anyone to dump audio examples to hear the difference. I am sure the internet is right in the finding of it being bigger and fuller sounding. I just want to hear that myself.

Thanks for the Captor X input also. Good to know. I’d love a PS-100 but again price wise it’s twice the price of a Captor X with just attenuation/loop as its feature set. Everyone says they sound as good as it gets tho.

 

[Michael Roe]

A 1959 will have more balls but........................if you neuter a real amp with attenuators or load boxes then.....why not just get the best available Marshall plexi tones out there....Fractal Axe FX III / FM9 / FM3.
If you can deal with my bad video making skills....here is an example and explanation of what I am saying:

 

[V-man]

All great points. Missing the cost point. The big lads are twice the price.

How does the 59HW compare to SV20H sound wise? I would love anyone to dump audio examples to hear the difference. I am sure the internet is right in the finding of it being bigger and fuller sounding. I just want to hear that myself.

Thanks for the Captor X input also. Good to know. I’d love a PS-100 but again price wise it’s twice the price of a Captor X with just attenuation/loop as its feature set. Everyone says they sound as good as it gets tho.

I have a 1959RR, which is its own thing. People commenting on them claim they have a lot of gain. My suspicion is they break up early and are aggressive like the ‘73 metalface. There are videos on it but everybody using them fucks up by playing them through the white cabs that had GT-75s, which are serviceable but inferior to classic GBs or high headroom speakers for this amp , like RR actually used. The result is too buzzy and less classic, so people may attribute that (unfairly) to the amp instead of the speakers.



Also regarding the PS 100: it has 2 channels for different amp settings (solo boost) and is a standalone 100w power amp to make a full amplifier out of a Friedman or Boss pedal… or it can turn that SV-20 into a full-size monster along side your new NMV should the need arise for a pair of 50w+ NMVs. It costs more than the Captor for sure, but delivers far more than better attenuation, FWIW

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

A 1959 will have more balls but........................if you neuter a real amp with attenuators or load boxes then.....why not just get the best available Marshall plexi tones out there....Fractal Axe FX III / FM9 / FM3.
If you can deal with my bad video making skills....here is an example and explanation of what I am saying:

Totally valid point, I’ve lost money and done the whole Kemper thing.

For me it’s not my way. Im an old man that like’s the amp twisting and valves burning. No question it sounds similar. HOWEVER I will say harmonically they do not react the same. I spent years with Kemper and the best Marshall clones and they just don’t react the same in my very humble honest opinion. Just my 2 cents of course. Everyone differs.

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

I have a 1959RR, which is its own thing. People commenting on them claim they have a lot of gain. My suspicion is they break up early and are aggressive like the ‘73 metalface. There are videos on it but everybody using them fucks up by playing them through the white cabs that had GT-75s, which are serviceable but inferior to classic GBs or high headroom speakers for this amp , like RR actually used. The result is too buzzy and less classic, so people may attribute that (unfairly) to the amp instead of the speakers.



Also regarding the PS 100: it has 2 channels for different amp settings (solo boost) and is a standalone 100w power amp to make a full amplifier out of a Friedman or Boss pedal… or it can turn that SV-20 into a full-size monster along side your new NMV should the need arise for a pair of 50w+ NMVs. It costs more than the Captor for sure, but delivers far more than better attenuation, FWIW

A 59RR DAMN! I bloody love RR and would tone chase for days with one of those. Thanks for the insight, not everyone has as many Marshall’s on tap as you. Great stuff!

 

[tallcoolone]

If you could actually get one, the Marshall 1987x has got to be the cheapest reliable option. If you could actually get one.

 

[Michael Roe]

Totally valid point, I’ve lost money and done the whole Kemper thing.

For me it’s not my way. Im an old man that like’s the amp twisting and valves burning. No question it sounds similar. HOWEVER I will say harmonically they do not react the same. I spent years with Kemper and the best Marshall clones and they just don’t react the same in my very humble honest opinion. Just my 2 cents of course. Everyone differs.

The Fractal is not an amp cloner but a modeller....big difference. If you watched the vid, I say I sold my Kemper after experiencing the Fractal for just one day! With a modeler you are in control of the tone and with a Fractal you can do far more things than your typical modelers do. It is expensive but it is the most professional of them by a mile and worth every penny. When you say, they don't have the same Harmonic content, have you tried a Fractal? I'm an older guy as well and for a very long time I would say the same things about modelers until I finally tried the mack daddy of them all out. It made me have to totally change my mind. I'm no young kid who has never played through real amps. I know exactly what real tube amps sound like.
I'm not ever going to tell a guy that a real plexi is not a good tone. If you have one and can use it without neutering the tone with attenuators and load boxes...then by all means brother ....have at it. If you are in need in any way to quiet that rig then you will be far better off financially by just using a Fractal and achieve a better tone with every bit of the feel and harmonic content as the real amp. Then to top that off...the Fractal has some of the best FX in the business in there as well.
I sit here basically the same as you. An old guy having to play quiet. I went through all the attenuators and load boxes etc to tame my LOUD Marshalls. Finally, I set aside my biases and tried one out. Best decision I have ever made!
4 years ago, I had a room full of Marshalls and cabs. I currently only own one 20 watt Marshall and a 2x12 cab.... which just collect dust.

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

The Fractal is not an amp cloner but a modeller....big difference. If you watched the vid, I say I sold my Kemper after experiencing the Fractal for just one day! With a modeler you are in control of the tone and with a Fractal you can do far more things than your typical modelers do. It is expensive but it is the most professional of them by a mile and worth every penny. When you say, they don't have the same Harmonic content, have you tried a Fractal? I'm an older guy as well and for a very long time I would say the same things about modelers until I finally tried the mack daddy of them all out. It made me have to totally change my mind. I'm no young kid who has never played through real amps. I know exactly what real tube amps sound like.
I'm not ever going to tell a guy that a real plexi is not a good tone. If you have one and can use it without neutering the tone with attenuators and load boxes...then by all means brother ....have at it. If you are in need in any way to quiet that rig then you will be far better off financially by just using a Fractal and achieve a better tone with every bit of the feel and harmonic content as the real amp. Then to top that off...the Fractal has some of the best FX in the business in there as well.
I sit here basically the same as you. An old guy having to play quiet. I went through all the attenuators and load boxes etc to tame my LOUD Marshalls. Finally, I set aside my biases and tried one out. Best decision I have ever made!
4 years ago, I had a room full of Marshalls and cabs. I currently only own one 20 watt Marshall and a 2x12 cab.... which just collect dust.

I have not tried Fractal but indeed friends that have tried them all say Fractal is way better than Kemper. Also Metallica/Def Lepard ect using them means they can’t be bad by shot.

I just am not looking to go that route, no denying they sound killer.

 

[SonVolt]

I just sold the SV20H for a 1987x on Friday. The SV can be switched down to 5w and cranked and it’s loud, but you can stand off to the side and easily tolerate it at home. The 1987x, no. I tried cranking it and immediately the sound pressure was too much. Very uncomfortable, very quick. Had I opened it up enough to let it overdrive I would have damaged my hearing.

That said, the 1987x has WAY more balls and depth to the sound. The cleans are much better too, less ice pick. I found the SV extremely bright. You absolutely need a PowerStation or equivalent however if you go 50w. May also feel you need one with the SV too.

For low volumes my AXE-FX3 blows them both away, no contest. Attenuated or not. By 1000x. Once you understand, adding effects and cabinet IRs, I can sound exactly like any recorded tone ever. Which can make up for the lack of in room feel.

 

[Guitaraficionado74]

To put it simply:
Recorded SV20 is sonically very close to 1959. 1987x is more aggressive.
BUT: 1959 has WAY more headroom than the other two, and so is more useful if you like clean tones, or work with pedals.
ALL 3 are too loud for home use (buy a used Hot Plate for 200-300$ and you're good to go)

 

[SonVolt]

The best 1987x demo I've found.

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

The best 1987x demo I've found.

Dans great!

 

[What?]

The problem with BOTH is that attenuation is all but required in virtually all situations with the exception of certain venues. The big miss for me about the SV-20 is that it makes practically no sense over the plexi.

It is so niche because the only two times that it would be favorable would be in a Tokyo/NYC shoebox apartment (where you have already have factored in the cost of attenuation) or some medium/small venue where you KNOW you can rely on a 212 and/or the FOH setup. That is way too niche and limited IMO to buy an overly loud amp that still lacks the power and balls of the 100W (and the price difference also hasn’t been terribly advantageous for the smaller amp).

During the pandemic I did run my 1959 through the captor X. The rating of the Captor is much better suited for the 1987X but it can run the 1959 if you are careful with the volume (as you know, it goes red LED when things are getting overloaded). I have since got a PS-100 which plays nice with the Captor when I want to run headphones (much easier on both the 1959 and Captor) and the PS sounds far better attenuating than the Captor.

So why the SV20? Because you got a killer deal on one used. Otherwise they practically make no sense to me over the original NMVs and most are far better off getting a 1987X/1959X

I agree that the 20 watters don't make any sense, other than if you just really like the particular sound of those amps in their own right. If you're playing at home or a bar gig, you're likely going to be attenuating any way, so might as well go 50 or 100 watts. And venues in general are pushing for lower volume these days.

Another consideration is cost of power tubes. 100 watts will have more wallop and headroom, but tubes are a lot more expensive these days, and x4 power tubes vs. x2 is worth thinking about since these are non-master volume amps where the tubes get abused. Also, 100 watt heads have bigger transformers and are heavier to tote, if that matters to you. I'll throw one more thing at you. For the money, Ceriatone is higher build quality and lower cost than Marshall, and if you want anything customized you have that option when buying.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

If you encounter a 2061X at a price you're happy with (1500 is a fair bargain), try it. I think you'll really like it. Boost it with a clean boost pedal and it's heavenly. Really has a plexi feel to it and a lower output level. (20 watts) My original 2061 has become my favorite amp.

It does NOT lack at all for a girthy, full bottom. I run it jumpered, this way: Guitar to boost pedal, pedal output to bass high input, jumper from bass low to lead high input. All controls are functional this way. Bass channel volume sets the bottom end, lead channel volume sets the mids and highs, tone controls add additional flavors.

 

[playloud]

These videos might be helpful as a point of comparison:

 

[79 2203]

Lots of videos on YT comparing those amps. Johan Segeborn does some good ones.
I’ve not played a SV20 but I should imagine the only significant difference will be in punch and headroom. Keep in mind, that the punch and headroom come at a price, and that’s volume. Doubling the wattage might be only 3db on paper, but in the room, that extra punch in the bottom end and boldness in the top end will have you attenuating more, and the more attenuation you use, the more the tone/feel is compromised.
I play at rock band volumes at home and can get away with attenuating my stock 71 1987 -8db with a Hotplate(amp on 6) and it sounds/feels amazing. OTOH, whatever gains in headroom and punch I get from my stock 70 Superbass are compromised by having to attenuate -12db, and the Superbass still doesn’t give me quite the same level of gain/compression and still seems a little louder and less controlled. So what happens is there’s this constant battle between wanting to turn up the amp just a little more, and not wanting to go deaf

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

These videos might be helpful as a point of comparison:

This is golden. Am I missing something but they sound the same?

I’m not hearing the bigger, fuller, more low end, more 3D sound everyone says I should with the bigger amp. Kind of a nice surprise even though my GAS was hoping it would be much better. Very surprised they sound so similar. Amazing really Marshall made it all work in a cost effective solution.