The Recording Thread
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The way I have always approached running two mics (on separate tracks) is to pan them to the same position and then adjust the mix between them until it sounds good to me. But there aren't any rules!
Hey there, Minerdude.I didn't know you frequented this place!
Hey Bubba!!!!! I've been a member here for quite a while, I hadn't posted here in a long time (health reasons, I know you've heard about it), but started popping in here the last little while...Good to see you dude!!!!
Yeah man, you've pretty much got it there. Myself, I pan the mic tracks exactly the same, but I'm using 'em to double up for a thicker sound. IE: I'll have 2 guitars, panned out 80 L/R, so the '57 & 609 would be 80 L on one side, & 80 R on the other...But you could pan 'em out differently, just depends on what you're after...
When using 2 mics on guitars (or anything really), you need to make sure they're in phase, or it'll sound weird. Sometimes though, the phasing thing makes 'em sound bigger...
Another mic that's pretty good IMO is an Audix i5. I've only had mine a couple weeks, but it seems like a good mic for guitar cabs...
Ahhh yes, now that's how ya do it... I knew there had to be a way to blend the two - kept getting stuck on thinking you didn't want to have an exact copy of the track, but when you are panning both the same direction, you actually have a better blend of the two tracks! Excellent - thanks Froderbro! Tomorrow night I'm going to swing by Sam Ash and pick up a Senn. e609 mic. From what I've read, it compliments the SM57 well (hoping it has a unique enough sound from the SM57 that it creates a cool tone when blending the two).
Thanks!
This all depends on what you want...
Here's a sample I did for the Jubilee RI last year.
I used 2 mic's on a Zoom H2n. The 5 sections represented above are:
1. Forward facing mic @ 45º angle (mono)
2. side figure 8 mic @ +/- 90º of forward mic (mono)
3. both mics as recorded, but side mic volume adjusted to match forward mic. L:forward R:side
4. both mic's from section blended (mixed) to mono
5. M/S mix, using the phasing plug-in set at 120º
Recorded a Marshall Jubilee RI w/ RI cab, loaded w/ V30's. Steve Smith @ Marshall Amplification UK.
________________
The phasing plug-in, takes the side mic's mono signal track & turns it into a dual mono track. Then it flips phase of 1 side, so, in essence, if you only played that now, stereo track on it's own, it would be silent, cancelling it's self out. But... add the mono forward track to that I the phase affects both channels in a different way & it then recreates the stereo stage, as you would hear it in the room. So section 5, is 2 mic's mixed using all sorts of out of phase trickery, as opposed to just running the tracks wide-spread (section 3) or blended to mono (section 4)...
There's lots of ways to mic things & mix them to get great results. It's all about knowing the techniques, room acoustics & playing w/ it...
Here's a sample I did for the Jubilee RI last year.
I used 2 mic's on a Zoom H2n. The 5 sections represented above are:
1. Forward facing mic @ 45º angle (mono)
2. side figure 8 mic @ +/- 90º of forward mic (mono)
3. both mics as recorded, but side mic volume adjusted to match forward mic. L:forward R:side
4. both mic's from section blended (mixed) to mono
5. M/S mix, using the phasing plug-in set at 120º
Recorded a Marshall Jubilee RI w/ RI cab, loaded w/ V30's. Steve Smith @ Marshall Amplification UK.
________________
The phasing plug-in, takes the side mic's mono signal track & turns it into a dual mono track. Then it flips phase of 1 side, so, in essence, if you only played that now, stereo track on it's own, it would be silent, cancelling it's self out. But... add the mono forward track to that I the phase affects both channels in a different way & it then recreates the stereo stage, as you would hear it in the room. So section 5, is 2 mic's mixed using all sorts of out of phase trickery, as opposed to just running the tracks wide-spread (section 3) or blended to mono (section 4)...
There's lots of ways to mic things & mix them to get great results. It's all about knowing the techniques, room acoustics & playing w/ it...
The 609 does compliment the '57 pretty good, and it's sound is a little different than the '57. The 609's high end can be a little sizzly at times, but again, it should sound pretty good with the '57...
Gonna mention the Audix i5 again for a pretty good mic in the same price range (about $100 new), I haven't tried it with the 609 yet though. I'll try to post some clips in the next couple days with all 3 of these mics...
Dogs of Doom: Sounds good, & is a great example of different mic positioning for different tones...
thanks... I should have added to listen through headphones too. I do notice that soundcloud really does something to the tone & I'm not sure of the stereo image. I can also upload a flac file, if anyone is interested...
Here done!
It definitely shows it a bit more...
thunderkyss
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Hundreds of different ways you can do it, depending on what you're hearing. I've got my 57 off axis on one speaker, then every now & then I've got a condenser placed 3 to 4 feet back to get add depth & body. I don't so much pan the two sources as much as I balance the levels.
cragginshred
Active Member
I just use a 57 with my cab grabber into an ART tube pre and it's great using the HJS Marshall head and Logic pro X
Sean_McFly_5150
Member
I tend to use the Butch Vig method for finding the right mic placement for guitar tone. I just find the right hiss with just the right amount of top end and low mids presence, test it out, and tweak the placement and angle by millimeters. I also cut holes in the grillcloth to get a few extra bits of top end and low end clarity and dynamic punch, and trust me, it works. These clips right here were done with one SM57 straight on the edge of the center speaker cap, no pedals, no EQ or compression plugins on the guitar track (just reverb, as well as a limiter for loudness on the master track to level the reverb and dry guitar a bit more), and it was done with my Bray 4550 Deluxe Combo linked to my greenback-loaded marshall cab from '72 (well broken in, so I didn't feel bad putting holes in the cloth). I put this all through pro tools 11, btw.
Higher gain:
Higher gain:
Dmann
Well-Known Member
Just sharing, great review, and a great piece of equipment.
really thinking about picking one up soon
really thinking about picking one up soon
GuitarMutant
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Just saw this thread. To the guys who had a computer that was once mighty and now has issues with recording, there's one thing I do. I'm still running a 6-year-old computer and am able to record 16 simultaneous channels for drums, and easily handle up to 36 tracks in playback with plugins running.
The two parts that are key are the overhead (of the audio interface, the DAW software, and the plugins), and the health of the computer (artifacts, fragmented hard drive, registry errors, etc.)
For plug-ins, I only use native plugins with my DAW software. I had WAVES and Izotope for a while, but they're resource hogs. So I took a tip from my producer buddy and ditched the plugins in favor of spending time getting a good clean signal. If the mic is right and the track is recorded right, very few, if any, plugins are required.
For interface, I use a Tascam 16x08. It's dirt cheap, has plenty of inputs, and runs great.
To keep my PC healthy, I treat it the same way I do the computers I manage at work. I format it, set up all the software, preferences, and performance tweaks. Install all necessary drivers. Check it with a test recording, apply plugins, mix down, and test the final product. Once satisfied that it's rock solid, I image the hard drive to an external USB drive. Now, every time I begin a major session, I simply re-image the computer and it's back to the day I set it up. Clean, fast, and able to run without issue. It only takes 20 minutes, and saves me countless hours of hair pulling.
There's some decent imaging software out there for free. I opted to purchase Active Disk Image myself, as the interface is easy and is fast.
Seriously - life is SO much better when you use a brand new computer every time you have a big session.
The two parts that are key are the overhead (of the audio interface, the DAW software, and the plugins), and the health of the computer (artifacts, fragmented hard drive, registry errors, etc.)
For plug-ins, I only use native plugins with my DAW software. I had WAVES and Izotope for a while, but they're resource hogs. So I took a tip from my producer buddy and ditched the plugins in favor of spending time getting a good clean signal. If the mic is right and the track is recorded right, very few, if any, plugins are required.
For interface, I use a Tascam 16x08. It's dirt cheap, has plenty of inputs, and runs great.
To keep my PC healthy, I treat it the same way I do the computers I manage at work. I format it, set up all the software, preferences, and performance tweaks. Install all necessary drivers. Check it with a test recording, apply plugins, mix down, and test the final product. Once satisfied that it's rock solid, I image the hard drive to an external USB drive. Now, every time I begin a major session, I simply re-image the computer and it's back to the day I set it up. Clean, fast, and able to run without issue. It only takes 20 minutes, and saves me countless hours of hair pulling.
There's some decent imaging software out there for free. I opted to purchase Active Disk Image myself, as the interface is easy and is fast.
Seriously - life is SO much better when you use a brand new computer every time you have a big session.
Figured I would post here and see if any of you could help me on this one. I am playing around with Sony Music Studio 8 on my Windows 8 laptop. I am new to this so bear with me. Plugging my guitar in using a M Audio MobilePre USB interface. This program came with Studio Devil British Valve amp simulator.
I figured out how to record a guitar track. But while it is monitoring and while recording I am only hearing the clean guitar signal in my headphones which are plugged into the headphone jack on the interface. When I play back what I recorded I then hear the amp simulator or FX that I assigned on the track. Just can't hear the FX while i am actually playing live.
And the bigger problem this is causing is I am mainly just trying to play my guitar into the PC and play along with MP3's for practice. I can load the MP3 song I want into the software with no issues. But just can't hear my guitar signal with the amp simulator until it is done recording.
I figured out how to record a guitar track. But while it is monitoring and while recording I am only hearing the clean guitar signal in my headphones which are plugged into the headphone jack on the interface. When I play back what I recorded I then hear the amp simulator or FX that I assigned on the track. Just can't hear the FX while i am actually playing live.
And the bigger problem this is causing is I am mainly just trying to play my guitar into the PC and play along with MP3's for practice. I can load the MP3 song I want into the software with no issues. But just can't hear my guitar signal with the amp simulator until it is done recording.
you have to select "monitor" for that track in the DAW.
Something else is happening here because all DAWS and INTERFACES i have used have never allowed me to hear the untreated signal without having accidently switched to direct monitoring on the interface itself. On my setup, if monitor is not selected in the DAW then I hear nothing.
on mine you select MONITOR in Mixcraft (DAW) but I also have to have the input slider down in the interface's GUI or I hear the untreated (raw) signal.
I'm still trying to figure out what DAW he's using,a search says Sony Music Studio 8 = ACID.
Yes, this is Sony Music Studio 8. And so far, there is no "monitor" function that I can find. I was googling it last night and read some other users gripes about version 7 having a monitor function and version 8 does not.
I am getting ready to play around with it here, but starting to wonder if I am spinning my wheels with this program. It was given to me, so no big deal.
I just remembered that I might have a 10 year old version of Pro Tools here somewhere. Would that be the better way to go?
I am getting ready to play around with it here, but starting to wonder if I am spinning my wheels with this program. It was given to me, so no big deal.
I just remembered that I might have a 10 year old version of Pro Tools here somewhere. Would that be the better way to go?
ricksteruk
Well-Known Member
I've just downloaded Reaper for my daughters PC.
http://www.reaper.fm/index.php
It's not a free DAW any more - you get 60 days free trial - after that it's a mere $60, which for what you get is pretty amazing.
I've figured it out myself and shown her how to use it in about two hours from scratch.
Might be worth a try.. you can definitely do monitoring of inputs on that - and load in whatever plug ins you want. I downloaded a good batch of free amp sims and other plug ing for her too.
http://www.reaper.fm/index.php
It's not a free DAW any more - you get 60 days free trial - after that it's a mere $60, which for what you get is pretty amazing.
I've figured it out myself and shown her how to use it in about two hours from scratch.
Might be worth a try.. you can definitely do monitoring of inputs on that - and load in whatever plug ins you want. I downloaded a good batch of free amp sims and other plug ing for her too.
