DSL100H vs JCM800 2203

[charveldan]

Im not laughing.

We are all lucky we survived da 80's, it was a hellava ride Loud & Proud.

Those MIJ Charvels were the best bang for the buck and still are.

 

[Easton55]

Well, I ended up going with the DSL. Still would have liked the 800, but just could not justify the extra $2000 over the DSL. Thanks to all the replies here, and to those who said they do like the DSL but have done tube switches to appreciate it more, what did you have in it originally, and what did you switch to? Just asking in case this is something I may consider later on too. Thanks again for all the advice guys!

 

[jlinde1973]

Yes the dsl's lack mids and punch. Compared to the jvm..and all vintage marshalls....talk to big Dooley...he can make your dsl better than it does. But hate to say it..you're wasting your money....just buy a real 800 or jvm. You'll be much happier.

 

[Easton55]

Lol, your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Thanks for sharing.
I bought the DSL, and I like it. Just asking those who have made any changes to them what they had and what they changed to.

 

[mcblink]

Interesting....
I have the DSL but recently have been toying with the idea of picking up an 800...

 

[30watt]

Interesting....
I have the DSL but recently have been toying with the idea of picking up an 800...

Pity you're in the States. My 800 combo is looking for a new home where it gets used more often

 

[RickyLee]

I have many different configs of the old 800's but all are the 50 watters. I have early 80's 4010's and 2204 and then also have late 80's 2205's. Then I also have a TSL100 and two DSL100's. My DSL amps are the older UK version, so I have no experience with the DSL100H. But I have read that the tonal differences between the old and new DSL100's are minimal. Probably much less of a difference than you find between two identical JCM 2000 DSL's, as I have experienced between my 2004 model then my 1998 model.

I read through the thread here and can say that I agree with both sides of the argument actually in different areas. My '83 2204 does seem as loud or possibly louder than my DSL's. But that really comes down to design and the simpler circuit in the 2203/4 amps. There is a much higher raw audio signal hitting the power amp section in the 2203/4 than the DSL100. You have to realize that the DSL100 has an FX loop as well as reverb. So that by design will affect the signal path hitting the phase inverter in that amp. Plus the DSL circuit has more gain stages than the 2203/4 in the preamp, which means there is more compression of the audio signal. The 2203/4 will give you more of a raw dynamic tone overall. But then a DSL will go into much higher gain territory than the 2203/4 amp without question. And then if you start getting into a properly dialed in DSL with a few tweaks under the hood, that is a whole different story for sure.

Regarding your newer DSL I am not sure if the preamp voltages run the same as the older DSL's. But to be safe you should run a high quality 12AX7 in V3 slot. The older DSL's would eat certain brands and makes of 12AX7's in that position due to high voltages there in the preamp power supply. I found that the Chinese 12AX7's held up well there and sound good in that spot as well. Chinese 12AX7's seem to enhance the mids a bit to my ears. So that will help out if the amp seems a bit mid scooped in its voicing. But I also like a good quality 12AX7 in V1, like the old RCA's, GE's as well as an I61 British Mullard. If you want to get into tube rolling in your DSL, look into a search on it first as it has been discussed quite a bit around here.

 

[BowerR64]

Do all the 800s have effects loops? if they do or dont which ones do and which dont? I was thinking about the 2205 or 2210 but i forgot about the effects loops they are pretty important to me.

I find it a little hard to believe the JCM2000 and the DSL100H sound the same dont they have different tone buttons on them? like the deep switch and then shift buttons?

 

[marshallmellowed]

The 2203x's have an fx loop. I've got both the 2203x and a DSL 100H, which I plan on doing some A/B'ing with this weekend. I had a DSL 100H for about a week, but returned it, so I don't recall whether it seemed to be lacking in the midrange or not. I just remember liking the classic (green) channel, but it needed a little more gain, and not liking the lead channel, which had too much gain for my taste.

 

[jlinde1973]

Dsl's definitely are much more versitile and have a ton more gain and low end..but they just don't have the midrange and punch. Too bad.

 

[Dmann]

The great thing about owning the new DSL100H is that no one ever ask's to borrow it lol.....

after a year and a half, my review is ;

The Good
- it's a great platform amp - takes pedals up front well, seamless no-noise FX loop, 4CM with Axe FX II
- The Green Channel is smokin, with an OD up front
- Master Volume, 100 watt EL34 Super Lead Power Section

The Bad
- Straight up, it's a basic amp IMO, and requires at least an OD and EQ to wake it up
- OT is it's 1st weak point, and shows this when you push the amp running a full stack. Upgrade is recommended.
- Preamp design is it's 2nd weak point, it's very sterile
- Red Channel... unusable with the same EQ settings that you've dialed in on the Green Channel, and vice versa
- Red Channel, Lead 2... even worse than Red, add a seriously raised noise floor, a gate is required due to this
- Reverb is very muddy and buried / scooped, and sounds very cheap / fake

The reason I bought it, was really for the power section, running either an ADA MP-2 Preamp and TC Electronic G-Major into the loop return, or 4CM with an Axe-fx II. I'm most likely going to pick up another one someday to rebuild my stereo dual stack setup.

I gigged this amp 14 dates with only a Maxon OD 808 and a Crybaby From Hell Wah up front, TC Electronic G-Major in the loop, and using a Gibson Les Paul Standard with Seymour Duncan custom pickups. IMO it completely nails classic rock, hard rock, blues, and grunge tones from the 70's all through the 90's just using the green channel with an OD and your volume knob on your guitar. It was satisfactory, and the client had no complaints. I've covered everything from classic rock, to country, to blues, to classic metal and it fit the bill, small audience 50 - 150 people, small corner stage, 2000 square foot room, dual mic (SM57 + e609). I was the only guitarist for the band.

Overall, for the $1000 CDN I paid for it, it's perfect for my needs.

Is it a JCM800 2203?

Listen to this, not the greatest, but it shows it for metal in a mix
Left is Gary Holt playing the DSL100H with a Maxon OD 808
Right is Kerry King playing his JCM800KK signature

 

[RickyLee]

I am thinking the circuit design stayed the same between the JCM DSL and DSL100H. But it would be cool to see a schematic for the new one. Anyone know if there's schematics out there for it yet?

I get confused on the comments of the DSL100 not having any punch? I can tell you from my experience the few times I opened up my two DSL100's at home, they were insanely loud. Now there is a slight difference in how the power amp reacts compared to the 2203/4 circuit. Is that what people are trying to explain by "punch"?

 

[ken361]

Red 1 is totally usable on the 40, I use all nos preamp tubes. My old Les Paul was kinda bassy on the crunch where my new strat with fat 50's is perfect. I keep the eq around the 5 mark with no problems.

 

[RickyLee]

The great thing about owning the new DSL100H is that no one ever ask's to borrow it lol.....

after a year and a half, my review is ;

The Good
- it's a great platform amp - takes pedals up front well, seamless no-noise FX loop, 4CM with Axe FX II
- The Green Channel is smokin, with an OD up front
- Master Volume, 100 watt EL34 Super Lead Power Section

The Bad
- Straight up, it's a basic amp IMO, and requires at least an OD and EQ to wake it up
- OT is it's 1st weak point, and shows this when you push the amp running a full stack. Upgrade is recommended.
- Preamp design is it's 2nd weak point, it's very sterile
- Red Channel... unusable with the same EQ settings that you've dialed in on the Green Channel, and vice versa
- Red Channel, Lead 2... even worse than Red, add a seriously raised noise floor, a gate is required due to this
- Reverb is very muddy and buried / scooped, and sounds very cheap / fake

The reason I bought it, was really for the power section, running either an ADA MP-2 Preamp and TC Electronic G-Major into the loop return, or 4CM with an Axe-fx II. I'm most likely going to pick up another one someday to rebuild my stereo dual stack setup.

I gigged this amp 14 dates with only a Maxon OD 808 and a Crybaby From Hell Wah up front, TC Electronic G-Major in the loop, and using a Gibson Les Paul Standard with Seymour Duncan custom pickups. IMO it completely nails classic rock, hard rock, blues, and grunge tones from the 70's all through the 90's just using the green channel with an OD and your volume knob on your guitar. It was satisfactory, and the client had no complaints. I've covered everything from classic rock, to country, to blues, to classic metal and it fit the bill, small audience 50 - 150 people, small corner stage, 2000 square foot room, dual mic (SM57 + e609). I was the only guitarist for the band.

Overall, for the $1000 CDN I paid for it, it's perfect for my needs.

Is it a JCM800 2203?

Listen to this, not the greatest, but it shows it for metal in a mix
Left is Gary Holt playing the DSL100H with a Maxon OD 808
Right is Kerry King playing his JCM800KK signature

Excellent post.

So you kept your DSL100H stock, no mods?

What about Gary Holt, is his stock that you know of?

I want to find out if Marshall made any tweaks to this DSL100H. It has been well known in the years leading up to the new DSL100H release of the couple of key points in the old DSL preamp (TSL100/122 as well) that would help to improve the gain voicing and remove some fizz as well as the low end tubbiness. So I am wondering if Marshall might have tweaked the preamp a bit?

 

[chiliphil1]

The great thing about owning the new DSL100H is that no one ever ask's to borrow it lol.....

after a year and a half, my review is ;

The Good
- it's a great platform amp - takes pedals up front well, seamless no-noise FX loop, 4CM with Axe FX II
- The Green Channel is smokin, with an OD up front
- Master Volume, 100 watt EL34 Super Lead Power Section

The Bad
- Straight up, it's a basic amp IMO, and requires at least an OD and EQ to wake it up
- OT is it's 1st weak point, and shows this when you push the amp running a full stack. Upgrade is recommended.
- Preamp design is it's 2nd weak point, it's very sterile
- Red Channel... unusable with the same EQ settings that you've dialed in on the Green Channel, and vice versa
- Red Channel, Lead 2... even worse than Red, add a seriously raised noise floor, a gate is required due to this
- Reverb is very muddy and buried / scooped, and sounds very cheap / fake

The reason I bought it, was really for the power section, running either an ADA MP-2 Preamp and TC Electronic G-Major into the loop return, or 4CM with an Axe-fx II. I'm most likely going to pick up another one someday to rebuild my stereo dual stack setup.

I gigged this amp 14 dates with only a Maxon OD 808 and a Crybaby From Hell Wah up front, TC Electronic G-Major in the loop, and using a Gibson Les Paul Standard with Seymour Duncan custom pickups. IMO it completely nails classic rock, hard rock, blues, and grunge tones from the 70's all through the 90's just using the green channel with an OD and your volume knob on your guitar. It was satisfactory, and the client had no complaints. I've covered everything from classic rock, to country, to blues, to classic metal and it fit the bill, small audience 50 - 150 people, small corner stage, 2000 square foot room, dual mic (SM57 + e609). I was the only guitarist for the band.

Overall, for the $1000 CDN I paid for it, it's perfect for my needs.

Is it a JCM800 2203?

Listen to this, not the greatest, but it shows it for metal in a mix
Left is Gary Holt playing the DSL100H with a Maxon OD 808
Right is Kerry King playing his JCM800KK signature

Thanks for the video, I'm not really a big slayer guy but I enjoyed that.

As far as the DSL amps go, I had a 2000 series DSL and I just did not like that amp, as you mentioned the shared EQ just ruins it. At the time I didn't know 1/10th of what I know now when it comes to guitar tone, so that didn't help me but I do know that I could spend a bunch of time making the clean sound awesome then switch over to the lead channel and it sounded horrible and vice versa. If it had 2 EQ sections it would be an amazing amp. I briefly owned a 15H which is really the amp which brought me back into tubes and back to Marshall. I used the red channel exclusively. I had the gain on about 1.5-2 and would turn the guitar volume down for clean tones and then boost the amp for my heavy stuff and it worked very very well. I think if you're going to do DSL plan on using it as a 1 channel amp, you can use any of the 4 modes you want but just don't plan to be able to go back and forth between 2 sounds.

 

[RickyLee]

On this new DSL100H, it seems that the Red channel still has complaints from many that it will not EQ properly in relation to the same settings for the Green channel. Now for one, that is actually the intent and design of this amp. But some that left the factory had this problem to be more enhanced/intense/magnified - however you want to put that one in - than others that left the factory. That is the case between my first 2004 DSL100 that I heavily modified due to fizz, and upper frequencies on the Red channel that were fatiguing to the ears. Then my second '98 DSL100 was like a mesh of the perfect ingredients when it left the factory. The Red channel was more midrange enhanced, a bit more upper mids as well, but in a very good way. Red channel is very defined in its mid voicing and has a detailed sweet crunch that is very chewy yet snappy. For lead work it just sings so sweetly and does not feel hollow like my '04 did.

 

[VileSickness]

Listen to this, not the greatest, but it shows it for metal in a mix
Left is Gary Holt playing the DSL100H with a Maxon OD 808
Right is Kerry King playing his JCM800KK signature

Man, whoever is doing their live sound is just as bad as when I saw them live last year...

Nothing beats this era -

 

[jlinde1973]

I am thinking the circuit design stayed the same between the JCM DSL and DSL100H. But it would be cool to see a schematic for the new one. Anyone know if there's schematics out there for it yet?

I get confused on the comments of the DSL100 not having any punch? I can tell you from my experience the few times I opened up my two DSL100's at home, they were insanely loud. Now there is a slight difference in how the power amp reacts compared to the 2203/4 circuit. Is that what people are trying to explain by "punch"?

Yes they're loud..they just don't have that raw in your face punch..that the jcm/jmp/jvm have. Great for metal and moden I guess. I really like my dsl40c..but I just don't need it after owning the jvm410.

 

[jlinde1973]

On this new DSL100H, it seems that the Red channel still has complaints from many that it will not EQ properly in relation to the same settings for the Green channel. Now for one, that is actually the intent and design of this amp. But some that left the factory had this problem to be more enhanced/intense/magnified - however you want to put that one in - than others that left the factory. That is the case between my first 2004 DSL100 that I heavily modified due to fizz, and upper frequencies on the Red channel that were fatiguing to the ears. Then my second '98 DSL100 was like a mesh of the perfect ingredients when it left the factory. The Red channel was more midrange enhanced, a bit more upper mids as well, but in a very good way. Red channel is very defined in its mid voicing and has a detailed sweet crunch that is very chewy yet snappy. For lead work it just sings so sweetly and does not feel hollow like my '04 did.

My dsl is a 2013 and it definitely lacks mids. Mxr 10 eq definitely helps though.

 

[jlinde1973]

Jvm is full and punchy...Plenty of mids..It's actually very close design to the jcm800 and plexi power section. Same exact trannys as kk jcm800. It's my favorite Marshall hands down. It can do jtm to plexi to jmp to jcm800 to 2000 and much much beyond. Ive put the variable neg feeback mod knob on mine. I can go from tamed to unleashed in a twist of the knob. Plus the 1uf cap plexi mod really fattens the upper midrange.