DSL100H vs JCM800 2203

[jack daniels]

I'm looking at getting a new head (to go along with the 1960AV cabinet) and would like to hear opinions on the two listed. I know what the 800 can do, but to purchase new, it's almost 3 times the cost of the DSL. And since the reviews I've read and the spec listings on the DSL state that it can reproduce the sounds of the 800, I'm not understanding how the price can be that different. It would make sense if the price cost was different the opposite way, but that's why I'm asking for enlightenment, lol. Help me out guys, and thanks as always!

JCM 800 2203, if you build it "You" will cum.

http://ceriatone.com/productSubPages/BSJCM800_2203/BSJCM800_2203_Complete.htm

 

[RickyLee]

I have to give some love to Lead 1 mode/channel on my '98 DSL100. This is even in stock form before I installed the 3H choke. Stock transformers still in it. I will put that one mode/channel up against all these other amps I have in my possession, but the 2004 DSL100 I will leave out as it is now heavily modified. Point I am trying to make is how good this one mode on this amp sounds compared to all my others. And I have heard discussions in this same context where people say a certain mode or channel on their JVM for example is the best Marshall tone they have heard. So I still have not played a JVM. just played next to a guy with one in a jam and I was not impressed to be honest.

I will try to stay on the Marshall valve/tube models I have and put them in order somewhat. I think I am remembering them all.



'82 4010 (has the lower B+ power transformer)
'83 2204
'84 4010
'87 2555 Silver Jubilee
'87 4104 modified
'88 2205 modified
'88 2205 stock
'89 2550
'90 2500 MK3
'93 6100
'94 2500 SL-X
'97 6100 LM
'99 TSL100

Ceriatone 2555 Clone
SIR 36/AFD35 build
Plexi/HotRod 2204 build

 

[jlinde1973]

I have to give some love to Lead 1 mode/channel on my '98 DSL100. This is even in stock form before I installed the 3H choke. Stock transformers still in it. I will put that one mode/channel up against all these other amps I have in my possession, but the 2004 DSL100 I will leave out as it is now heavily modified. Point I am trying to make is how good this one mode on this amp sounds compared to all my others. And I have heard discussions in this same context where people say a certain mode or channel on their JVM for example is the best Marshall tone they have heard. So I still have not played a JVM. just played next to a guy with one in a jam and I was not impressed to be honest.

I will try to stay on the Marshall valve/tube models I have and put them in order somewhat. I think I am remembering them all.



'82 4010 (has the lower B+ power transformer)
'83 2204
'84 4010
'87 2555 Silver Jubilee
'87 4104 modified
'88 2205 modified
'88 2205 stock
'89 2550
'90 2500 MK3
'93 6100
'94 2500 SL-X
'97 6100 LM
'99 TSL100

Ceriatone 2555 Clone
SIR 36/AFD35 build
Plexi/HotRod 2204 build

Rick u really need to try the jvm410..I know that u were a diehard 2205 guy..I've read your posts for years...but give this thing a try. Crunch red thru od1 red are absolutely killer. No or pedals needed. I do agree....lead 1 on the dsl is great with gain no higher than 4ish. But it just don't punch like the jvm...I've got them both side by side right now...wish I had a good way to record them...I would make u all believers. The jvm is not "modern" at all...unless u r in od2. I almost think the dsl is more "modern"...lack of midrange and punch. The jvm uses the same trannys and power amp as jcm800 and jmp.

 

[RickyLee]

Rick u really need to try the jvm410..I know that u were a diehard 2205 guy..I've read your posts for years...but give this thing a try. Crunch red thru od1 red are absolutely killer. No or pedals needed. I do agree....lead 1 on the dsl is great with gain no higher than 4ish. But it just don't punch like the jvm...I've got them both side by side right now...wish I had a good way to record them...I would make u all believers. The jvm is not "modern" at all...unless u r in od2. I almost think the dsl is more "modern"...lack of midrange and punch. The jvm uses the same trannys and power amp as jcm800 and jmp.

Trust me when I say I am still GAS'ing for a JVM410. I have kept my eye out for a cheap one for some time now. And have contacted a few sellers locally to try and work out a deal involving my second 2205 that I initially bought just to flip as I really only needed the B cab that came with it back on that deal LOL. But every time I find a reasonable one locally they only want cash. I am strapped these days and just can't buy anything I want like the good old days before the Gal got laid off.

I might list my '88 2205 here again, but last time no one wanted to even give $700 for it. I rather just keep it than sell it for too cheap.

Then my GAS has me wanting the new Mesa JP2C amp as well LOL. The band situation has fizzled out again so really no justification on buying a big amp anyway. But I might have to start getting rid of some stuff here eventually.

Yeah, the JVM with all its options has always had me itching for one. I am a guy who can play a gig with my 2204 through my 2X12 and only a Wah on the floor if need be. But then I can put to use the four channels of a JVM with ease as well. That is why I have had an attraction towards some Mesa stuff lately as I love all the bells and whistles and actually love to have to dial in and play around with a finicky amp like I hear some people complain about with Mesa's and being hard to dial in. Wouldn't be an issue for me though.

 

[chiliphil1]

JCM 800 2203, if you build it "You" will cum.

http://ceriatone.com/productSubPages/BSJCM800_2203/BSJCM800_2203_Complete.htm

I want to build a ceriatone something serious! I actually just had a thought hit me when you posted that, they have an option with n OT, PT, choke, or tubes.. Man, imagine building one tossing in some Mercury components and NOS tubes.. Good lord that would be amazing.

 

[jlinde1973]

Trust me when I say I am still GAS'ing for a JVM410. I have kept my eye out for a cheap one for some time now. And have contacted a few sellers locally to try and work out a deal involving my second 2205 that I initially bought just to flip as I really only needed the B cab that came with it back on that deal LOL. But every time I find a reasonable one locally they only want cash. I am strapped these days and just can't buy anything I want like the good old days before the Gal got laid off.

I might list my '88 2205 here again, but last time no one wanted to even give $700 for it. I rather just keep it than sell it for too cheap.

Then my GAS has me wanting the new Mesa JP2C amp as well LOL. The band situation has fizzled out again so really no justification on buying a big amp anyway. But I might have to start getting rid of some stuff here eventually.

Yeah, the JVM with all its options has always had me itching for one. I am a guy who can play a gig with my 2204 through my 2X12 and only a Wah on the floor if need be. But then I can put to use the four channels of a JVM with ease as well. That is why I have had an attraction towards some Mesa stuff lately as I love all the bells and whistles and actually love to have to dial in and play around with a finicky amp like I hear some people complain about with Mesa's and being hard to dial in. Wouldn't be an issue for me though.

Cool sounds like you've got what u need figured out... $700 for a 2205 seems a little cheap..shouldn't have any trouble selling it for that. I'd go $900 if I were u and let them talk u down. Ya the boogies..I've had them all. Great amps but no marshall midrange crunch. I sold every one and lost my ass on ALL of them...good luck if u go that route. But u can always mod them if need be..

 

[Dmann]

Excellent post.

So you kept your DSL100H stock, no mods?

What about Gary Holt, is his stock that you know of?

I want to find out if Marshall made any tweaks to this DSL100H. It has been well known in the years leading up to the new DSL100H release of the couple of key points in the old DSL preamp (TSL100/122 as well) that would help to improve the gain voicing and remove some fizz as well as the low end tubbiness. So I am wondering if Marshall might have tweaked the preamp a bit?

Yea I kept it stock, I keep intending to upgrade the OT, but I'm not currently gigging or in a band so no real hurry. I do want to put in a upgraded OT eventually.

As for Gary Holt, this Video is from 2013, but as far as I know he's still running the same rig, just using a different Maxon OD in the rack now.

Jump to 22:57 for Gary's Rig



And for all the guys whom think it's only good for metal or modern tones, In the hands of a musician, like I said it's a great Platform Amp

JUMP to 2:07 for the best part IMO

 

[RickyLee]

Dude, on Gary Holts DSL100H amps, his settings are not far off from the settings I used on my stock '98 DSL100 for my Trower band gigs. That would be the same amp I used in those video clips I posted on the forum. Only difference is Gary has his Bass at about 6 or more where I had my Bass at 4 to 5. And his Treble was lower at just over 5 where mine was at 6 or just over 6. I did run my Presence at 6 to 7 as well. His Mid was about 4v while mine was about 5. But then that new DSL has a resonance control as well. But it looks like he is using Lead 1 Gain about 6 with Volume about 4 which is where I was at as well. Interesting as I was playing a club and matched up to drums with only the kick drum coming through the PA.

I could have never set my first '04 DSL100 at my settings when it was stock. No way.

 

[ken361]

Thats how mines set, with the strat now I have the mids at 5. Trb 3 to 5

 

[Easton55]

Love all this reference info. Starting points with new equipment is always great to have.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Surprised that so many are saying that the DSL100 lacks mids, then I see posted settings with mids set to around 5. You would think everyone would be cranking the mids if they were truly lacking.

 

[chiliphil1]

Yea I kept it stock, I keep intending to upgrade the OT, but I'm not currently gigging or in a band so no real hurry. I do want to put in a upgraded OT eventually.

As for Gary Holt, this Video is from 2013, but as far as I know he's still running the same rig, just using a different Maxon OD in the rack now.

Jump to 22:57 for Gary's Rig



And for all the guys whom think it's only good for metal or modern tones, In the hands of a musician, like I said it's a great Platform Amp

JUMP to 2:07 for the best part IMO

I don't know, Gary is listed as an endorsee for ENGL now and in the video below he's using a Kemper through a 9200

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/22636-rig-rundown-exodus-gary-holt-2015

 

[VileSickness]

Marshall, ENGL, Kemper, Axe-FX...Gary Holt must have one of everything.

https://www.facebook.com/marshallam...94362866916/10154182655366917/?type=3&theater

 

[RickyLee]

Yeah, Gary Holt mentions the Kemper in that gear video that Dmann posted. I think he mentioned the Engl gear too. But you have to realize, that he is going on the road and probably wanted something readily available and decent priced. And if there is anything to put up for looks, he probably wanted to have a Marshall being seen as to match Kerry. So you look at new production Marshalls ready available and simple non complex amps and good sounding and the new DSL100H would fit the bill nicely.

As for the talk of any DSL100/50 or TSL100/122 lacking mids, I am just not getting that one. Both of my DSL's and the two TSL's I had all had plenty of midrange detail and definition. This stock DSL I keep bragging about has a sweet chewy midrange crunch on the Red channel.

But I can add that part of the grip load of mods I did to my first '04 DSL100, adding in a 100K mid pot was part of that. I just wanted to be able to crank the mids way up if need be, but after the mods I never really ran it that high. Might have had it set between 1 and 3 at the highest. But then you have to realize that a 100K linear pot set at 2 is probably close to the stock DSL mid pot at 5 or maybe just over 5. But actually thinking on that I can't recall the stock specs on the old DSL mid pot. Possibly 20KL?

 

[mcblink]

I don't have any lack of mids either.
Plus, the knob turns the other way too, and a guy can turn the mids up if need be lol

 

[Easton55]

Found my answer.

 

[RickyLee]

The other thing to keep in mind regarding the EQ difference between the Green and Red channels is the Gain settings on each of those channels. Higher Gain settings will give darker tonal results on each channel. The Red channel is already voiced to cut through the mix and come across as a bit toppier than the Green channel. When you get the Gain control up around the 6 to 7 mark on each channel, you start bypassing the associated bright caps on those Gain pots/controls. If you run the Green channel Crunch mode with Gain at 8, it is going to be a beefy dark sound for sure. Red channel with Gain at 8 will be much darker than if you have that Gain on 6. But then of course will give you quite a bit of gain/dirt there as well. Lead 2 might not be usable with Gain at 8, but I have used that mode in high gain settings while running a neck single coil to get me that Screaming Woman tone LOL. Now anyone familiar with Eric Clapton and his Cream days knows about the Woman tone. But when I say Screaming Woman tone, that is well above that old version and more along the lines of Vai type sustain or towards that Whitesnake Is This Love solo tone that I really dig.

But back to balancing EQ between channels, some DSL's just seem to be closer between the two channels than others. I experienced this first hand when I got this second DSL100 and I could not believe how good it was tonally right from the factory compared to my first DSL100. Obviously many people have either removed or lowered the value of the Red channel Gain pot bright cap. I lowered it on my first DSL100. But this second one I got, I am not touching it. I am actually considering adding a switch to be able to try some higher values as well. That shows me that somewhere in the voicing of this Red channel there is some component values that are either as close to design as intended, or all the other bright and harsh Red channels on all the complaint DSL's have some components quite a bit out of design spec. That is really what I am starting to think and if I had the time I would try thoroughly dissecting my two DSL100's to see what is going on there somewhere. But the compromise comes in where the Gains are set on each channel. If you have Green Crunch Gain at 8 and Red Lead 1 Gain at 5, you are going to have a very toppy spike in highs on the Red channel. That Green channel does get quite wooly with the Gain set high. But if you can set the Red channel Gain closer to 7, you will not notice it as much. But again, there was a bigger difference doing that on my first DSL compared to the second which has a closer transition in the EQ and voicing.

 

[Dmann]

Gary Uses the DSL rig only for Slayer. He's actually from Exodus, but filled in after Jeff died and just stayed on.... He did a few solo's on the Album (Repentless) I think but that's about it.

My 1st DSL100H, was also a floor model and blew a tube taking out a socket inside of a month. When I took it back they traded it as I was not wanting to be waiting for repairs. The 2nd one was a factory sealed box. Had Tube Amp Doctor stickers on the tubes, still Marshall branded, and the Bias was right on the money too. It continues to hold it's bias after a year and a 1/2 and is very stable.

I use a fiberglass baffle so I can push the amp a little more.

I set Presence & Resonance accordingly for the room / stage, but usually Res around 4 and pres around 6.

I run my Bass, Mid, Treb all on 7, as I've found that seems to be the perfect spot for the fullest signal on my DSL100H, which I then use the loop with a G-Major's, 3 Band Parametric EQ. G-Major also does relay's for channel switching, so I use a midi controller to it, and this allows me to switch both Channels with various EQ presets as I need, as well as effects, it gives me everything one needs to create an arsenal of tones.

 

[RickyLee]

Found my answer.

I am figuring this will not be your main type of music, but here is a thread where there was some discussion on the DSL Red channel. I posted some clips in here of my stock DSL100 and Adrian has some clips in there as well, maybe even some others if my memory is on it.

On the Trower band vids I posted I am running only Lead 1 and staying on my single coil neck pickup. My settings about where I mentioned earlier. This was before I installed a 3H choke in mine as well. All stock transformers in my amp still. Later I think I posted some clips where I am running my bridge humbucker which obviously sounds much beefier.

Towards the end of my Trower clip is where you will here the lead tone of my DSL though it is still the neck single coil and I kick on the Vibe pedal as well.

http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?threads/dsl-100-red-channel.90757/

 

[Easton55]

Thanks for all the info here, and the vids sound fine. Gives me a headstart on where to play with everything too, like that. Will see where I end up, lol.