The dsl joey mod thread

[jcmjmp]

As for the coupling caps, it wouldn't dull the sound, but lessen that sharp SHING, BLING high end?

I'd probably want a change to both green and red, even the red is BLINGY, and sounds fizzy to me. It needs to be firmer and clearer.

Try an 10 band eq (or more) in the loop and see which frequencies you like boosted/cut out and take it from there.

Changing the coupling caps or even the plate->grid cap in V1a can help. They can really help in reducing the high end harmonics.

 

[RickyLee]

Yeah, the Joey Mods will help out that along with quite a few other areas as well.

Something you can try for the brightness would be to reduce the bright cap values in both channels.

I removed the bright cap on the Red channel and reduced the bright value on the Crunch mode to about half the value if I remember right (would have to find my notes).

Where are you setting the Gain controls for each channel?

I increased my phase inverter to power valve coupling caps from .022uF to .047uF for a bit more bottom end in the power section.

 

[maltone]

Thanks guys.. Ricky, that sounds like what I'm looking for. I find I'm rolling the presence down so low, and even lowering the mids from middle position to about 4 to roll off some of that bling, but it's still there.

My settings are almost always,
GREEEN channel, CRUNCH ON
Volume at 4-4.5, 5 sometimes 6
Gain at 3-4 sometimes a bit higher.
DEEP switch ALWAYS ON. Damn I love that feature.

RED channel,
Volume about 4-5
Gain 1-2 MAX.

I honestly don't find the red channel that useable. It's way too fizzy, and it has that CHUG CHUG gain sound if I even turn the gain up a hair. It's really sensitive.

I also find the red channel isn't firm enough, and it's fizzy - I just don't like it's voicing, but sometimes when I play around with the volume and set the gain REALLY low, like 1.5, it's almost useable. It's never as firm and clear, robust sounding as the green channel though.

However - a next door neighbor loaned me his BOSS OD3. It's very cool, because I can set the amp on the green channel, CLEAN, no crunch, Volume at about 4-5, Gain at 3-4

I'll turn the LEVEL on the OD3 all the way up, and often the DRIVE is at 0, maybe 1-2, if that, TONE in the middle. It's like I can almost get the same sound on the crunch channel settings, and not quite so loud, but adds even more girth + the DEEP switch on. Yes, there's some loss there with the bigness of sound, but then if I turn the presence up, turn the mids up etc, it still sounds pretty damn good and articulated.

LAST, would changing the value of the capacitor on my tone pot make any difference? Currently there's a metal film .022mf in there. Could that be attributing to the brightness? Or would it just be better to change it at the source?

I removed the bright cap on the Red channel and reduced the bright value on the Crunch mode to about half the value if I remember right (would have to find my notes).

Where are you setting the Gain controls for each channel?

I increased my phase inverter to power valve coupling caps from .022uF to .047uF for a bit more bottom end in the power section.

 

[RickyLee]

Running those gain controls set low is part of your problem with the harsh highs. The Green Channel has a 100pF bright cap across the Gain control that is there for both Clean and Crunch modes. Then there's another bright cap C6 1000pF that gets added to C4/switched in for a total of 1100pF when Crunch mode is on. You can try lowering the value of C6 to 470pF or even a bit lower. If you use a Silver Mica and leave the legs a bit long, you can start out with a real low value like 100pF and clip on additional caps in parallel to experiment to your liking.

As for the Red channel, it has a bright cap C12 470pF that is across it's Gain pot for both Lead 1 & Lead 2 modes. You can take some small cutters and snip one leg of that cap and bend it back. If one leg is a bit longer, cut that one in case you want to solder it back together from the top - this is the easy mod as you do not have to remove the board. And it is the best beginning mod for this amp. I did that and left my DSL100 stock for quite some time and was happy with it. A lot of other people just do that one mod as well and it is good enough for them. That alone should make you Red channel real close to the Green alone in the EQ'ing.

All these caps are all on the front PCB with the controls on it. I can say that my Lead 1 channel is the highlight of my DSL100 now. Just amazing what a few tweaks can do to this amp.

 

[rockgod212]

does anybody know how i can remove the reverb and fx loop completely out of the circuit, as i dont ever use them and i want a pure tube path.....

 

[jcmjmp]

Running those gain controls set low is part of your problem with the harsh highs. The Green Channel has a 100pF bright cap across the Gain control that is there for both Clean and Crunch modes. Then there's another bright cap C6 1000pF that gets added to C4/switched in for a total of 1100pF when Crunch mode is on. You can try lowering the value of C6 to 470pF or even a bit lower. If you use a Silver Mica and leave the legs a bit long, you can start out with a real low value like 100pF and clip on additional caps in parallel to experiment to your liking.

Ricky - You hit the nail on the head. Maltone came over to my place to pickup his amp after I re-biased it and fixed the rear bias pot board (among other things).

When I heard and saw the settings he was using (he played his Gretsch through the amp - beautiful guitar), I understood what kind of mods he needed. There's some real simple things to do on V1a and the treble bleed is another key element. These are all things I mentioned I could do to Maltone's amp already. In terms of low end tightness, the coupling caps are one aspect of that but without a good OT, I think that adding slightly less filtering between stages is a waste of time. Ricky - have you upgraded your OT yet? I don't remember.

To make a car analogy, there's no point in dumping money on the intake if you're gona keep the same exhaust system.

 

[jcmjmp]

does anybody know how i can remove the reverb and fx loop completely out of the circuit, as i dont ever use them and i want a pure tube path.....

The reverb can be switched out completely with the reverb footswitch. All you need to do is plug in a jack with the tip/ring connected together.

The FX is out of circuit if nothing is plugged into to it (bypassed with relays, like the reverb)

 

[maltone]

JCMJMP, that sounds good to me. I'm definitely going to change the OT, PT and add a choke - just can't afford it right now.

I think I might have my friend do the V1a cathode cap change, and then the treble caps as well. I want to order all the parts first - that I'll also need later on. I just can't stand this shrill BLING thing happening on the treble strings - it's SO annoying, and I always wake up the next day with my ears ringing. If you'd like to do the balance of the mods for me in the new year, what coupling caps could I order, and what values? Please let me know, and I'll assemble all the parts for you first.

— JCMJMP I'm on your Lydian site right now, trying to find the correct PDF's for my 2008 DSL. One of the pics you sent to me when you were re-biasing my amp shows JCM2-61-00 - I'm assuming this is the Front Board?

As for the Tube and Rear Boards...

Tube Board jcm2-60-00-iss1_TubeBoard100w.pdf
Tube Board jcm2-60-02-iss5_TubeBoard100w.pdf
Tube Board jcm2-60-02-iss7_TubeBoard100w.pdf

How do I determine what 100w Tube Board issue to look at? Is mine an issue 7?

And what Rear Board?
jcm2-62-00-iss1_RearBoard.pdf
jcm2-62-02-iss2_RearBoard.pdf?

Thanks.

 

[rockgod212]

im really happy with the sound of my amp with my spec/mods i did to my dsl100. but a few things im not happy with and still need to change or figure out is:
1. with the added gain pot it changed the intensity of the reverb, so i need to change the input and output impedence of the reverb, does anybody have any idea of what to change r41 and r44 to in order to get the reverb to sound right again? when the reveb is off is it completely out of the circuit, thinking about removing the reverb from the circuit, as i dont really use it.

2. i love the way the amp sounds without the deep switch engaged, the amp sounds very much like a soldano now, but its way too much added lowend when deep is engaged, any ideas on modding the deep circuit to just give a little lowend thump. im thinking about rippin that circuit out and rewiring the presence to the normal circuit and adding a resonance control instead. any ideas on this......

3. when nothing is plugged into the fx loop is it completly bypassed or is the signal still going through all of the loop circuitry? dont use it-dont need it, how can i remove it completly, so i can have a pure tube, no loop marshall tone, like my plexi-2203.........

 

[Joey Voltage]

2. i love the way the amp sounds without the deep switch engaged, the amp sounds very much like a soldano now, but its way too much added lowend when deep is engaged, any ideas on modding the deep circuit to just give a little lowend thump. im thinking about rippin that circuit out and rewiring the presence to the normal circuit and adding a resonance control instead. any ideas on this......

The presence IS the normal circuit. 5KL is a more useable value for the presence control, as it gives a more useable sweep, instead of 25K which isolates the presence cap too much and does nothing until the last quarter of it's sweep.

to just give a little thump to the resonance you would have to damp the Q of the circuit by inserting resistance between the pole of sw5b and the junction of c29 and r43, or insert resistance between the connected throw of sw5b, and r30

3. when nothing is plugged into the fx loop is it completly bypassed or is the signal still going through all of the loop circuitry? dont use it-dont need it, how can i remove it completly, so i can have a pure tube, no loop marshall tone, like my plexi-2203.........

it's still active, once aupon a time it looks like the plan was to have it footswitchable to be completely bypassed, but that would result in a pretty big volume jump.

 

[rockgod212]

The presence IS the normal circuit. 5KL is a more useable value for the presence control, as it gives a more useable sweep, instead of 25K which isolates the presence cap too much and does nothing until the last quarter of it's sweep.

to just give a little thump to the resonance you would have to damp the Q of the circuit by inserting resistance between the pole of sw5b and the junction of c29 and r43, or insert resistance between the connected throw of sw5b, and r30


it's still active, once aupon a time it looks like the plan was to have it footswitchable to be completely bypassed, but that would result in a pretty big volume jump.

1.on the presence, i meant the way the cap is wired to the pot, but thats really not an issue......
2.on the deep switch- so for less of a lowend thump, i would have to cut the trace to add the resistance.......
3.fx loop- how can i bypass it completely? i cant follow the schematic for that one....
4.where is the signal tapped for the reverb and fx loop?

 

[Joey Voltage]

1.on the presence, i meant the way the cap is wired to the pot, but thats really not an issue......

that doesn't make any difference.

2.on the deep switch- so for less of a lowend thump, i would have to cut the trace to add the resistance.......

No, you just need to reconfigure the opamp to do the same thing. i.e ditch the boostrapping

3.fx loop- how can i bypass it completely? i cant follow the schematic for that one....
4.where is the signal tapped for the reverb and fx loop?

The reverb is tapped from the preamp right before V3. The loop is post Tone stack. to remove the Loop, just remove RL3, and put a jumper between the throw and pole that connects to R40. also to save your self some additional loading remove R40 pot board.

to adjust the reverb on the tube board r41 is the Mixer, if you need a weaker mix increase it, and that might just be enough. other wise you will have to play with the send level, and it will take some juggling to find the optimum between between the required drive, while keeping the loading reasonable.

If you want to ditch it, just unplug the tank, or even easier dont use it, you are not doing your self any favors by cutting anything out in that area if you already have your sound. And this wont prohibit you from using it's pots for other things so long as you appropriately disconnect them.

 

[rockgod212]

joey thanx for your help on this.....

1. what is bootstrapping, im not familar with that term?
2. gotcha on the reverb, i can fix that now......

3. so to remove the loop, remove RL3b- and jump between junction of
RL2b/r40 to junction of RL3b/r25......is this correct? should i also remove r25?

4. looks like r40 is where the signal is tapped for the loop, in theory all i would have to do is remove r40 to remove the loop, correct?

 

[Joey Voltage]

Correct, but keep r25, It is functioning as a pull down to keep all the relay contacts at the same DC bias in order to avoid pops.

R40 is where the loop sends, however it looks like RY3 is normally de-energized defaulting to the loop in state, that's why I recommended to get rid of it and permanently jump it. It says mute, but it doesn't appear to be providing that function from the scheme, it looks like at one point it was intended to be for a loop bypass.

 

[rockgod212]

got it, that makes sense now, i might just put the loop on a dpdt switch, so if i ever need it, it still works.....
what would it take to make the loop foot switchable......thanx for your help....

Correct, but keep r25, It is functioning as a pull down to keep all the relay contacts at the same DC bias in order to avoid pops.

R40 is where the loop sends, however it looks like RY3 is normally de-energized defaulting to the loop in state, that's why I recommended to get rid of it and permanently jump it. It says mute, but it doesn't appear to be providing that function from the scheme, it looks like at one point it was intended to be for a loop bypass.

 

[RickyLee]

Ricky - You hit the nail on the head. Maltone came over to my place to pickup his amp after I re-biased it and fixed the rear bias pot board (among other things).

When I heard and saw the settings he was using (he played his Gretsch through the amp - beautiful guitar), I understood what kind of mods he needed. There's some real simple things to do on V1a and the treble bleed is another key element. These are all things I mentioned I could do to Maltone's amp already. In terms of low end tightness, the coupling caps are one aspect of that but without a good OT, I think that adding slightly less filtering between stages is a waste of time. Ricky - have you upgraded your OT yet? I don't remember.

To make a car analogy, there's no point in dumping money on the intake if you're gona keep the same exhaust system.

My DSL100 has the ClassicTone output transformer 40-18055. I also have the Mercury Magnetics 3 Henry choke MAR100C. But I still have the stock power transformer for the time being.

Regarding Maltones brightness issue, I gave him some pointers on experimenting with those bright caps C6 & C12 just to get him by for awhile. And the way that he is running his amp, that alone will help him out in a huge way. He is not running that amp like the rest of us do with the Gains set well above 5, 6 or 7.

 

[cylon185]

hey guys,
sorry to jump in but, could anyone help me to find a replacement part for RL3 ?
Can't seem to understand the full specs...

 

[maltone]

Thanks Ricky. I find this amp sounds best (to me) with the crunch channel on, volume at half (MAX) and gain around 3-4.

It's definitely got bite, but if you pick more softly, it get semi-clean. You dig in harder, and then it growls. I love the tone, it's just too fizzy, and way to bright. So I'll take yours and JCM's advice to tame that bling/shing I'm hearing.

It's as if the voicing is in reverse; the low end isn't defined or rich enough, the mids (although I love that midrange bump - (GOWNK sound) seems fizzy at times, not focussed or rich enough, and brights are way over the top.
I just want it to sound....balanced.

My DSL100 has the ClassicTone output transformer 40-18055. I also have the Mercury Magnetics 3 Henry choke MAR100C. But I still have the stock power transformer for the time being.

Regarding Maltones brightness issue, I gave him some pointers on experimenting with those bright caps C6 & C12 just to get him by for awhile. And the way that he is running his amp, that alone will help him out in a huge way. He is not running that amp like the rest of us do with the Gains set well above 5, 6 or 7.

 

[guitargoalie]

hey everyone, I know nothing when it comes to working with electronics soldering and modding, so I would have to bring my DSL to a tech if I get any of these mods. Can someone briefly explain how these mods affect the tone? Will it be apparent at low volumes or will I have to turn it up to notice? If anything I'm trying to make my dsl less fizzy and thin, and more jubilee-esque. thanks

 

[RickyLee]

hey everyone, I know nothing when it comes to working with electronics soldering and modding, so I would have to bring my DSL to a tech if I get any of these mods. Can someone briefly explain how these mods affect the tone? Will it be apparent at low volumes or will I have to turn it up to notice? If anything I'm trying to make my dsl less fizzy and thin, and more jubilee-esque. thanks

I would say the mods listed here will get it closer in tone to the Jubilee's Razor Sharp crunch. I can say this because yesterday I was running my DSL100 together with my 2555 Jubilee Clone in stereo. I have performed a few of the basic mods listed in this thread on my DSL100. And I also tweaked a few other areas as well. I would advise you to do the full mods as they were listed to get the best performance.

But you can get by with just a few basic mods to improve these amps slightly. Removing reducing the value of the front PCB C12 bright cap for the Red channel is a good start. And lowering the value of the bright cap C6 on the same PCB for the Green channel to about half - 470pF will help. And then lower the value of the first gain stage cathode bypass cap on the tube/valve main PCB C12 from 4uF to 1uF or even a bit lower, like .68uF. These mods alone will improve the amp and you might be happy with the tone for the time being.

What city/country do you live in?