The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread

[wolfpack]

So where did he get his info?
From Marshall directly?
From a Technical Service Bulletin?

My opinion is that 39 is too hot.
30-35 is good for me with EL34's...

Yep
32 has the best results for me

 

[ken361]

I always cringe when I see info about setting the bias between two mA ranges, Why, you dont want to exceed 70% dissipation on an EL34 and the only way to safely and accurately do this is by knowing the plate voltage. P = I * V so as the plate voltage goes down, the bias current goes up and vise versa. Plate voltage varies with wall voltage then there are variances in tubes...I just do get statements like this. You can also use a scope but still voltage is a variable. Am I missing something here

mine was 450 I believe and biased at 38.5

 

[ken361]

Real hot and the red channel will be more brighter and tighter and too cold will warmer and less tight and some flubby

 

[ken361]

http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm

 

[Greatwhitenorth]

I checked the bias on mine when I had it apart this weekend and it was way out. 29 and 34 if I remember correctly. I usually check it if I have it out of the cabinet so I was surprised to see it out by so much. I did a quick adjustment to 37mA on each side and it seems to be good. To be honest, I've never checked the plate voltage. I just went with the range that sounded the best to me. I also haven't had to change power tubes other than to suit my preference.

 

[ken361]

I checked the bias on mine when I had it apart this weekend and it was way out. 29 and 34 if I remember correctly. I usually check it if I have it out of the cabinet so I was surprised to see it out by so much. I did a quick adjustment to 37mA on each side and it seems to be good. To be honest, I've never checked the plate voltage. I just went with the range that sounded the best to me. I also haven't had to change power tubes other than to suit my preference.

should sound better and feel!

 

[IRG]

Just ordered new tubes from Doug's tubes, went with his recommendation for this amp. We shall see, but anything has to be an improvement. Mine are getting quite noisy now, they just haven't last very long at all. And I don't play it all that often, or for very long, or very loudly - sad to say. The original tubes in my Fender Fender Humboldt Hot Rod v2 still work great.

I will say, that I think I'm at the point now with this amp that I know it. And I prefer getting my gain from pedals. Didn't want to admit that, or go that route, but it is just the way it is. The exception is when I use my one PRS guitar, tuned down to drop C, then I like the red channel, lead 2. Mostly for the heavy stuff. But I'm not using it that way very often.

I'm mostly using the green channel, on clean. Gain at 6, volume at 6. Very nice clean tone, and imo, a great platform for pedals. Pedals for gain include a Catalinbread 5F6 used for a lower gain Fender type tone, nice platform for some added grit. Might add a Catalinbread DLS soon, to get the Marshall tones I'm not really liking from the red channel.

I'm also using a Wampler Clarksdale for medium+ gain. It can sound similar to the red channel, but I like the lower end bass response on the Wampler pedal, and I can easier dial out the higher gain fizz I get from the red channel. The two are close, but I'm just digging the Wampler more right now. Finally I'm using a JHS Muffuletta muff pedal, and that thing just rips.

What I like about the DSL40c at this point: Very nice clean tone, eq helpful in getting the right balance, with pedals doing the rest. What I don't like: switching to the red channel usually involves me having to increase the bass and decreasing the treble controls, along with twiddling the volume/gain controls and sometimes the resonance/presence controls. Versus, sticking with the green channel, and just stomping on a pedal for better tone, with less fiddling. Dual EQ would be great on this amp, almost a necessity, I didn't want to think it was at first, but it is.

Also, I recall a thread somewhere here, about requesting two green channels, and I agree, instead of the red channel. Maybe a slightly hotter green channel, and one that is clean. I can see the appeal now.

Hopefully the new tubes will make the red channel more usable.

 

[ken361]

I use the red a lot and the crunch I set my eq treb at 3, mids 4 or 5, bass depends were im playing and resonance at 6 and pres at 5. 3 old stock preamp tubes and a Tungsol in the V1 and no issues from switching from crunch to red 1 gain at 6 or 7 it stays tight and focused with my les Paul! I owned manyyy amps just gotta dial your gear in! mess with pups and pole pieces and use quality cables.

Not rocket science, people here always think its the amp yeah it can be bright most amps the treble is set 5 to 7, this one 3 is good and use a warmer picks no cheap crap! lol. My MIM strat stock pups on the neck pup sounds pretty dam sweet on the red one with the gain back at 3 or so! vintage 60's blues rock tones. Gary Moore,Trower, Hendrix.

 

[ken361]

Having a good stash of tubes is always good! buy all kinds new and old stock, some amps like certain tubes over others I found out over the years. Marshalls loves the warmer older tubes because there voiced bright.

 

[Greatwhitenorth]

Just ordered new tubes from Doug's tubes, went with his recommendation for this amp. We shall see, but anything has to be an improvement. Mine are getting quite noisy now, they just haven't last very long at all. And I don't play it all that often, or for very long, or very loudly - sad to say. The original tubes in my Fender Fender Humboldt Hot Rod v2 still work great.

I will say, that I think I'm at the point now with this amp that I know it. And I prefer getting my gain from pedals. Didn't want to admit that, or go that route, but it is just the way it is. The exception is when I use my one PRS guitar, tuned down to drop C, then I like the red channel, lead 2. Mostly for the heavy stuff. But I'm not using it that way very often.

I'm mostly using the green channel, on clean. Gain at 6, volume at 6. Very nice clean tone, and imo, a great platform for pedals. Pedals for gain include a Catalinbread 5F6 used for a lower gain Fender type tone, nice platform for some added grit. Might add a Catalinbread DLS soon, to get the Marshall tones I'm not really liking from the red channel.

I'm also using a Wampler Clarksdale for medium+ gain. It can sound similar to the red channel, but I like the lower end bass response on the Wampler pedal, and I can easier dial out the higher gain fizz I get from the red channel. The two are close, but I'm just digging the Wampler more right now. Finally I'm using a JHS Muffuletta muff pedal, and that thing just rips.

What I like about the DSL40c at this point: Very nice clean tone, eq helpful in getting the right balance, with pedals doing the rest. What I don't like: switching to the red channel usually involves me having to increase the bass and decreasing the treble controls, along with twiddling the volume/gain controls and sometimes the resonance/presence controls. Versus, sticking with the green channel, and just stomping on a pedal for better tone, with less fiddling. Dual EQ would be great on this amp, almost a necessity, I didn't want to think it was at first, but it is.

Also, I recall a thread somewhere here, about requesting two green channels, and I agree, instead of the red channel. Maybe a slightly hotter green channel, and one that is clean. I can see the appeal now.

Hopefully the new tubes will make the red channel more usable.

This was me exactly. I played through Green clean with my Rat, Big Muff, Bad Monkey, and Soul Food. The Bad Monkey still has a place on my board, but only as a boost now that I've done the C19 swap. The Red channel had too much sizzle for lack of a better term. EQ changes are not required now with the channels matching up. I found that the C19 mod made all the difference for me.

 

[BanditPanda]

You could run in series off the 16 ohm oitput but it's painful! If 1 speaker is hooked up in the internal, the other has to stay attached to it. Or, if you unclip one connection, MAKE SURE YOU RECONNECT before turning amp on. Painful. Really not a good way yo do it at all. You are waaayyy better off with 1x16, 2x16, or 1x8.

Thank you Jethro. I'll definitely go the 2 x 16 ohm route.
B.P.

 

[ken361]

This was me exactly. I played through Green clean with my Rat, Big Muff, Bad Monkey, and Soul Food. The Bad Monkey still has a place on my board, but only as a boost now that I've done the C19 swap. The Red channel had too much sizzle for lack of a better term. EQ changes are not required now with the channels matching up. I found that the C19 mod made all the difference for me.

Heres a tip I noticed with pedals

Those pedals are killing the amps natural tone and sucking the bass out some! BM is a good clean boost buts it not true bypass and when you shut it off the signal is cutting your highs and lows out. I a/b it back and for loud many of times the crunch channel lost some luster and warmth and the red wasn't as beefy! Best was is plugging straight in and use a delay or ect. in the loop. Go ahead and play loud with all the pedals and the strait in see if you notice anything. Its not huge but its there! pedals sound warmer with a battery or a good power supply over a One spot.

I used the Bogner red and blue for 2 years with a Blues deluxe and then a 68 custom twin. They couldnt do a Marshall as good as a Marshall they were pretty close but the amps natural distortion was bit warmer.

If you dont like the red try the EVH 5150 pedal it was awesome when I played with a DSL 100h on the clean channel at the store .

 

[IRG]

Heres a tip I noticed with pedals

Those pedals are killing the amps natural tone and sucking the bass out some! BM is a good clean boost buts it not true bypass and when you shut it off the signal is cutting your highs and lows out. I a/b it back and for loud many of times the crunch channel lost some luster and warmth and the red wasn't as beefy! Best was is plugging straight in and use a delay or ect. in the loop. Go ahead and play loud with all the pedals and the strait in see if you notice anything. Its not huge but its there! pedals sound warmer with a battery or a good power supply over a One spot.

I used the Bogner red and blue for 2 years with a Blues deluxe and then a 68 custom twin. They couldnt do a Marshall as good as a Marshall they were pretty close but the amps natural distortion was bit warmer.

If you dont like the red try the EVH 5150 pedal it was awesome when I played with a DSL 100h on the clean channel at the store .

Good pedals will not suck tone when off, period. They can be either true bypass, or buffered. Depends on the design, and the components used - like good amps. I do LOTS of testing of various pedals, and get paid to do so. But some, like the now retired Bad Monkey, did have a buffer issue - in my experience as well. The Hardwire series was a big improvement, although that's now been discontinued too.

In any event, some pedals just match up better with certain amps, and guitars/pickups. Lots of trial and error sometimes. But I found like a lot of people, tubescreamers are a pretty good match with Marshall amps, and the Wampler is stellar, with a separate 3 band EQ for much better flexibility.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

I'm conceding defeat. after numerous tube swaps/combinations and bias settings, I just can't get this DSL to sound like I want. The only thing I haven't tried is a speaker swap. After all the other changes I've tried, I don't have much confidence it'll be worth it for me to go that route. I hope I'm not overlooking the one mod that'll get me there. I guess I just don't have the skills to get what I want from it. I have one more tube combination that is going to get tested at Friday's gig...provided the snow doesn't cancel it. We'll see if that changes my mind. Either way, I have learned a lot in this process and from this great thread.

Notice I was very careful to NOT say this amp sucks, FWIW. I don't feel it is, it's just not what I'm looking for.

As Micky asks, what sound are you after? A speaker swap is the biggest factor tonally. In what ways does it not work?

 

[ken361]

Good pedals will not suck tone when off, period. They can be either true bypass, or buffered. Depends on the design, and the components used - like good amps. I do LOTS of testing of various pedals, and get paid to do so. But some, like the now retired Bad Monkey, did have a buffer issue - in my experience as well. The Hardwire series was a big improvement, although that's now been discontinued too.

In any event, some pedals just match up better with certain amps, and guitars/pickups. Lots of trial and error sometimes. But I found like a lot of people, tubescreamers are a pretty good match with Marshall amps, and the Wampler is stellar, with a separate 3 band EQ for much better flexibility.

I meant mostly the BM like you said and sometimes buffers can alter tone in one way or the other.

 

[IRG]

I meant mostly the BM like you said and sometimes buffers can alter tone in one way or the other.

Gotcha, and agree.

 

[Greatwhitenorth]

I truly have no frame of reference regarding high dollar pedals. I've had the Monkey for years and the DSL is the amp that it works with the best. It may color the tone a bit, but in the right way for my taste. I've plugged straight in to the amp several times, including since I did the C19 mod and although I do love the sound, I find that I love it even more with it in front of the amp.

 

[jep1210]

As Micky asks, what sound are you after? A speaker swap is the biggest factor tonally. In what ways does it not work?

So what ARE you looking for?
What is it you are trying to dial in?
What sound are you after?

There is a possibility that this is not the amp for you.
I recently had a friend try mine, and after a while, he said flat out, that it has too much distortion. Then he tried my '77 Fender Princeton Reverb. Only after we cranked it way up did it get distorted, and that is what he was looking for. He wanted clean, and needed that in order to use his collection of pedals.

I tried to explain that Marshalls do clean as well, it is just you need to get a higher-powered one to get the clean 'headroom' he wanted. He wanted my Fender, but I will never let it go...

Well that right there is a big part of my frustration, I can't find a way to explain what it is I'm looking for in an articulate way. All I can say is the distortion in this thing is too "harsh", even with external distortions. I have the bass dial at 8 and the treble at 2 and it's still too harsh/bright/. To me, the distortion is too gravely...if that's a word...and I'm looking for a "smoother" (big?) sound. I visualize the difference in sound being between 36 grit sand paper and 100 grit sand paper, I'm looking for a 100 grit sound and I'm getting 36 grit. Corny I know, but hopefully that paints the picture. I'm actually quite pleased with the clean I can get from it. There was a video posted in this thread, I believe. I really liked the tone the guy in video was getting, it really is a great sound and more along the lines of what I'm looking for tone wise. I'll see if I can find it. I realize he was playing through a head and cabinet set up so maybe that's the answer, but honestly I don't want to get into lugging that kind of equipment around being as most of the places we play are really tight on space.

Ah! Here it is [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9jHt6ml_E[/ame]

That, to me, was sound I was expecting from a tube amp and what made me go that route.

Jethro, to be clear, I didn't actually do a speaker swap. I considered going the Creamback route based on what I've read but I really didn't want to throw over a hundred dollars into a mod that won't get me where I want to be. Admittedly I am temp to give it try, but my frugal nature is making hesitant.

 

[BanditPanda]

Jethro, to be clear, I didn't actually do a speaker swap. I considered going the Creamback route based on what I've read but I really didn't want to throw over a hundred dollars into a mod that won't get me where I want to be. Admittedly I am temp to give it try, but my frugal nature is making hesitant.

Before you make a jump to the Creamback of course you must find out what else is out there and at what price. I found, and granted only from PC Internet generated sound, that the Creamback may indeed be smooth and creamy but at the same time it does remove some of that Marshallness ( edge / wildness ) Check out the WGS ET65 or their Veteran 30. Both highly thought of and at half the price. Some players also let the stock 70/80 break in fully and begin to appreciate it also. ymmv
B.P.

 

[jep1210]

Before you make a jump to the Creamback of course you must find out what else is out there and at what price. I found, and granted only from PC Internet generated sound, that the Creamback may indeed be smooth and creamy but at the same time it does remove some of that Marshallness ( edge / wildness ) Check out the WGS ET65 or their Veteran 30. Both highly thought of and at half the price. Some players also let the stock 70/80 break in fully and begin to appreciate it also. ymmv
B.P.

Yeah, I hear you but that's the problem. That's a lot of money to be shelling and lots of time sending stuff back, ordering something new, trying it, sending that back ect. It just all seems extremely cumbersome for what might not make all that much difference in the end.